Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[Willmark]

It’s amazing. I hear things like this and it’s just totally alien to me. I have NEVER felt that a piece of media was made to “deliberately antagonize fans.”

And it’s possible while you haven’t, there are folks that have and certainly could explain in part the issues faced.

The point being whether or not it’s alien to you it’s a very real possibility. There are a lot of people who have tuned out from Disney and Hollywood’s wares for a multitude of reasons. Fan dissatisfaction likely is in a variety of shapes and form. I don’t think it’s a monolithic answer either.

I can only answer for myself. In my case can’t think of a case where it’s been personally insulted, simply more of a “meh” and move on.

To close it’s easy to blame the fans, but the same time they can’t be made to spend their money at the cinema. And if they have a reason why they are not? Whether people agree with or disagree it might be worth looking into why that is.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It’s amazing. I hear things like this and it’s just totally alien to me. I have NEVER felt that a piece of media was made to “deliberately antagonize fans.” Heck, anyone who has read my posts on these boards knows I spend a lot of time complaining about the direction of WDW. I think management is stupid, greedy, trapped in an echo chamber, badly educated - but not antagonistic. Not even when they closed Muppets. Because that idea is silly.

Now what I HAVE seen are a lot of powerful, dishonest people screaming on social and mass media - and from even bullier pulpits - that bad people hate them and everyone who follows them and that their audience should do exactly what they say because those other people are such big meanies. And I’ve seen a lot of people follow because the anger and sense of belonging feel good. But those complaints are self-evidently bad faith.

Now historically, there HAVE been certain groups that most of the media rejects and ignores. But I suspect that that very real, very documented phenomenon is not what most of the “fans” mentioned above are worried about.

I’m not surprised…but it’s hard to deny that some people people feel shut out/shamed/rejected by some Hollywood trends…

It’s kinda Always been that way and always will be because they operate in their own echo chambers…even worse that politicians

 

[Willmark]

I’m not surprised…but it’s hard to deny that some people people feel shut out/shamed/rejected by some Hollywood trends…

It’s kinda Always been that way and always will be because they operate in their own echo chambers…even worse that politicians

Yep.

Whether it’s valid or not really isn’t the question. The consequences of it is.

 

[DCLcruiser]

I haven't seen Elio yet, and I don't want to spoil it by going into the specific thread, but I can see a few issues:

1) Lilo and Stitch are in theaters also. Unless you plan to see both, Stitch wins.
2) The name is nondescript. This is like John Carter (which I liked a lot). The title sounds like it's about frozen pizza.
3) Isn't the film about an autistic child? That may not be appealing to general audiences, or hit too close to home.

 

[Disney Irish]

3) Isn't the film about an autistic child? That may not be appealing to general audiences, or hit too close to home.

No its not. Its about a kid dealing with the loss of parents and not feeling like they belong, so go look for that belonging in the form of aliens.

 

[DCLcruiser]

No its not. Its about a kid dealing with the loss of parents and not feeling like they belong, so go look for that belonging in the form of aliens.

Well, the internet thinks he is. I think when it first was announced it was alluded.

Even Variety mentions it:

‘Elio’ Review: A Lonely Boy Makes Friends With an Alien in Emotionally Grounded Outer-Space Cartoon

'Elio,' the latest from the studio behind 'Toy Story,' reminds that sub-par Pixar is still smarter and more satisfying than most of what's out there.

variety.com

 

[Disney Irish]

Well, the internet thinks he is. Even Variety mentions it:

‘Elio’ Review: A Lonely Boy Makes Friends With an Alien in Emotionally Grounded Outer-Space Cartoon

'Elio,' the latest from the studio behind 'Toy Story,' reminds that sub-par Pixar is still smarter and more satisfying than most of what's out there.

variety.com

Where does that article say he is autistic or on the spectrum?

 

[DCLcruiser]

Where does that article say he is autistic or on the spectrum?

"In any case, Olga is clearly overwhelmed and exasperated by Elio, who’s not identified as autistic (as some have speculated online) or disabled (there’s a good explanation for his blue eyepatch)."

 

[Disney Irish]

"In any case, Olga is clearly overwhelmed and exasperated by Elio, who’s not identified as autistic (as some have speculated online) or disabled (there’s a good explanation for his blue eyepatch)."

They are explaining that the internet is wrong and that the story IS NOT about an autistic kid, which is what I said. Not that there is anything wrong with a story like that, but this is not that movie.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

No its not. Its about a kid dealing with the loss of parents and not feeling like they belong, so go look for that belonging in the form of aliens.

That’s kinda core classic Disney, no?

 

[DCLcruiser]

They are explaining that the internet is wrong and that the story IS NOT about an autistic kid, which is what I said. Not that there is anything wrong with a story like that, but this is not that movie.

My point was that people THINK that it is. To the point that even Variety mentions it. I recall (it's been awhile) that since Elio was announced, it has always had that association. Right or wrong, that's how it was perceived.

Now, that could have an impact on viewership. It's not necessarily a popcorn topic.

 

[Disney Irish]

That’s kinda core classic Disney, no?

Yep, which makes it more likely to be seen as a return to classic Disney in the long run, and better for brand healing.

 

[Disney Irish]

My point was that people THINK that it is. To the point that even Variety mentions it. I recall (it's been awhile) that since Elio was announced, it has always had that association. Right or wrong, that's how it was perceived.

Now, that could have an impact on viewership. It's not necessarily a popcorn topic.

I never got the impression from anything released since it was announced that Elio was autistic or even on the spectrum. And I say that as someone with members of my family who are, including kids younger than Elio.

So that was an assumption made without any actual acknowledgement of it being true. I think some see an unsual kid with an eye patch and just makes that assumption.

 

[DCLcruiser]

I never got the impression from anything released since it was announced that Elio was autistic or even on the spectrum. And I say that as someone with members of my family who are, including kids younger than Elio.

So that was an assumption made without any actual acknowledgement of it being true. I think some see an unsual kid with an eye patch and just makes that assumption.

Maybe. I just recall it. Can't remember exactly why. There have also been references to an infinity symbol in the movie, which is apparently related.

 

[Disney Irish]

Maybe. I just recall it. Can't remember exactly why. There have also been references to an infinity symbol in the movie, which is apparently related.

As far as I'm aware the puzzle piece is still the primary symbol used for the autism community. The infinity symbol was used to show the infinite potential of the people within the community and only started being associated in 2005, but was never meant to be the primary symbol as there isn't one single symbol meant to represent the entire community

Symbols for Autism: What Do They Mean?

An overview of the most common symbols for autism, including the puzzle piece ribbon, color blue, the butterfly, and the infinity symbol.

www.autismparentingmagazine.com

Also the infinity symbol is used in many many many ways in many different areas of life, including life itself. So I don't know why its automatically assumed to be representing autism especially since Elio never actually has the symbol anywhere on his person (at least that I recall).

 

[Tha Realest]

"In any case, Olga is clearly overwhelmed and exasperated by Elio, who’s not identified as autistic (as some have speculated online) or disabled (there’s a good explanation for his blue eyepatch)."

I mean, there are many who insist that movies like Luca and Frozen (and Frozen II) are gay or gay coded, despite the creators undercutting that view. That’s art - it’s subjective!

I thought Michael Rianda handled both issues perfectly in this interview re: The Mitchells vs The Machines (TLDR: gay representation was intentional and they wanted to make sure they did it right; neurodivergent not intentional going in but glad those who may or may not be on the spectrum may see that trait in those real characters - great!)

The Mitchells vs. The Machines: How Michael Rianda Made a 'Dirtbag Miyazaki' Movie

The Mitchells vs. The Machines' director Michael Rianda tells CBR how his "suburban dirtbag Miyazaki" film strives to represent real people.

www.cbr.com

 

[Dranth]

There have been movies or TV shows over the last ten years where the marketing was to deliberately antagonize the fans.

There has certainly been marketing that tries to reach specific audiences, but that isn't really the same as deliberately antagonizing fans.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

There has certainly been marketing that tries to reach specific audiences, but that isn't really the same as deliberately antagonizing fans.

This one is a matter of debate

My view that the marketing in particular has been “ham handed”…at best

They have brought some heat on themselves at times

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

I mean, there are many who insist that movies like Luca and Frozen (and Frozen II) are gay or gay coded, despite the creators undercutting that view. That’s art - it’s subjective!

I thought Michael Rianda handled both issues perfectly in this interview re: The Mitchells vs The Machines (TLDR: gay representation was intentional and they wanted to make sure they did it right; neurodivergent not intentional going in but glad those who may or may not be on the spectrum may see that trait in those real characters - great!)

The Mitchells vs. The Machines: How Michael Rianda Made a 'Dirtbag Miyazaki' Movie

The Mitchells vs. The Machines' director Michael Rianda tells CBR how his "suburban dirtbag Miyazaki" film strives to represent real people.

www.cbr.com

I don't know what the Elio filmmakers intended but it wouldn't be strange for a sci-fi show to speak to issues like autism in an allegorical rather than explicit way.

 

[Dranth]

This one is a matter of debate

My view that the marketing in particular has been “ham handed”…at best

They have brought some heat on themselves at times

Maybe someone can find an example of some marketing that was done to purposely antagonize their customers but I can't think of any and it certainly isn't widespread.

Now, I can think of attempts that ended up antagonizing customers, but it wasn't selected and purposely done for that goal, which is what I was responding to.

It just seems to me that people often want to mistake poor choices, thought and/or execution for malice.