MK Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom

[Dreamer19]

Disney seems to find new space for DVC but the actual parks it's rip something out and replace or leave it empty. With 25,000 acres you would think park expansion would be a no brainer

My neighbor across the street is a Universal Parks engineer who worked heavily on EU and is currently working on the new UK park.

I spoke to him yesterday and asked what he thought about tearing out ROA and his response was exactly that. “What does Disney have all of that space for?!” and “They don’t know what they’re doing.”

 

[Dreamer19]

Does anyone know if they’re going to close Columbia Harbor House. It’s probably one of the better quick service restaurants, but would make no sense in this new area given there won’t be a harbor..

 

[DisneyHead123]

My neighbor across the street is a Universal Parks engineer who worked heavily on EU and is currently working on the new UK park.

I spoke to him yesterday and asked what he thought about tearing out ROA and his response was exactly that. “What does Disney have all of that space for?!” and “They don’t know what they’re doing.”

I wonder how much of it has to do with park real estate. Would a Cars ride out on an expansion pad at the periphery or in HS sell as much merch or as many LLs as a Cars ride in the heart of the park?

My stance is still that if Disney absolutely feels they need to better utilize that space, ok - but I’m not sure about Cars as a choice. I feel somewhat better with the newly released concept art but I just don’t know that Cars has the universal appeal of something like the riverboat. I remember taking my son’s grandparents to Disney for the first time and how charmed they were by the riverboat. If it has been Cars? I think they would have thought “Well that’s nice for our grandson I guess”, but I don’t think they would have been wowed by Disney in the same way. When I think Cars, “classic ambiance” is just not what comes to mind.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I wonder how much of it has to do with park real estate. Would a Cars ride out on an expansion pad at the periphery or in HS sell as much merch or as many LLs as a Cars ride in the heart of the park?

My stance is still that if Disney absolutely feels they need to better utilize that space, ok - but I’m not sure about Cars as a choice. I feel somewhat better with the newly released concept art but I just don’t know that Cars has the universal appeal of something like the riverboat. I remember taking my son’s grandparents to Disney for the first time and how charmed they were by the riverboat. If it has been Cars? I think they would have thought “Well that’s nice for our grandson I guess”, but I don’t think they would have been wowed by Disney in the same way. When I think Cars, “classic ambiance” is just not what comes to mind.

The latest update talked a lot about the focus on sightlines and sound leed, etc. And especially the view when coming in via Liberty Square area

My hope based on this is the are will still feel like the Frontier - more broadly speaking not just "old West" with the national Park take and rivers and waterfalls and greenery, etc. And then the actual Cars part will be self contained

If this winds up being seeing and hearing Cars zipping around in front of you when in the current Frontier area then I totally agree it won't feel as timeless, but if all that is absent from the main existing drag, I think the end result can work out quite well - but margin for error is pretty high

 

[dmc493]

Said my goodbyes to Muppet Vision yesterday, and now ROA / riverboat / TSI / round-trip railroad today. Didn’t realize this trip would be such a doozy with goodbyes. Even tho I wasn’t attached to TSI or the riverboat I’m just not prepared for this change

yes I know the railroad thing is temporary but it’s still years away

 

[flynnibus]

I spoke to him yesterday and asked what he thought about tearing out ROA and his response was exactly that. “What does Disney have all of that space for?!” and “They don’t know what they’re doing.”

How does space miles away help the MK footprint?

Every sq ft of park you add runs up your daily opex… you don’t do that without serious consideration and usually new monetization

 

[DisneyHead123]

The latest update talked a lot about the focus on sightlines and sound leed, etc. And especially the view when coming in via Liberty Square area

My hope based on this is the are will still feel like the Frontier - more broadly speaking not just "old West" with the national Park take and rivers and waterfalls and greenery, etc. And then the actual Cars part will be self contained

If this winds up being seeing and hearing Cars zipping around in front of you when in the current Frontier area then I totally agree it won't feel as timeless, but if all that is absent from the main existing drag, I think the end result can work out quite well - but margin for error is pretty high

In my dream world it would be something like a New Orleans Square, Coco Village, or even just a catch all (walkable) forest themed area.

If it’s a great backdrop with minimal Cars in view I think that would be… ok. But still not quite the same vibe. Like Big Thunder looks cool in the distance, but if you bring a relative to the parks for the first time, they’re probably not going to stop and admire the Big Thunder mountain for awhile. Kids will no doubt like it more but to me it’s still a downgrade on charm factor, albeit a more minor one.

 

[doctornick]

My neighbor across the street is a Universal Parks engineer who worked heavily on EU and is currently working on the new UK park.

I spoke to him yesterday and asked what he thought about tearing out ROA and his response was exactly that. “What does Disney have all of that space for?!” and “They don’t know what they’re doing.”

I mean there’s an argument that what they are doing makes it much better for guest flow and walking around while doing new stuff on the far side of the current RoA would push stuff fairly far. But even with that, they could achieve a relatively similar effect but cutting the RoA down to just the lower TSI and incorporating the upper island/fort area into a new Cars/Villains area. Might have to put some stuff outside the berm to make it work but it would have possible to keep a truncated RoA with riverboat and rafts/TSI while also accessing that northern area more effectively

 

[doctornick]

How does space miles away help the MK footprint?

Every sq ft of park you add runs up your daily opex… you don’t do that without serious consideration and usually new monetization

How does Disneyland run more attractions (including an intact RoA) than MK then? With fewer annual visitors? And, heck, a greater percentage of their guests are the “less favorable” Annual Passholders.

Disney can make it work and make plenty of money doing it if they wanted. It’s not like RoA/TSI is that expensive to run in the grand scheme of things and there’s plenty of available land if they wanted. They just constantly choose to shutter and replace rather than expand.

 

[doctornick]

In my dream world it would be something like a New Orleans Square, Coco Village, or even just a catch all (walkable) forest themed area.

If it’s a great backdrop with minimal Cars in view I think that would be… ok. But still not quite the same vibe. Like Big Thunder looks cool in the distance, but if you bring a relative to the parks for the first time, they’re probably not going to stop and admire the Big Thunder mountain for awhile. Kids will no doubt like it more but to me it’s still a downgrade on charm factor, albeit a more minor one.

The irony to me is if they were just doing a “National parks” area in Frontierland with the waterfalls and geysers but without the anthropomorphic Cars then it would actually IMHO be a decent idea. I don’t even mind pivoting Frontierland to be a more broad “exploring American wilderness” kind of concept. It’s just that Cars is incongruous to this all.

With some waterfront thankfully remaining, I’m mostly just bothered with using Cars at this point. If they were using Humphrey the Bear or Chip & Dale (maybe Rescue Rangers?) or Pocahontas in that area instead, I’d actually be pretty down with it. I don’t think that the riverboat and TSI are so sacrosanct that they need to stay forever, but I just don’t think this plan is an improvement

 

[MisterPenguin]

How does Disneyland run more attractions (including an intact RoA) than MK then? With fewer annual visitors? And, heck, a greater percentage of their guests are the “less favorable” Annual Passholders.

DL saves on fireworks.

Also, WDW upcharges guests thru their many 'luxe' hotels wherein most of the upcharge is due to proximity to MK (even tho the rooms ain't that luxe.)

MK is just a piece of the larger WDW pie. The other three theme parks and all the other entertainment synergizes with MK.

Who'd go to DAK if DAK was just a single theme park out in the world by itself with no other 'linked' theme parks nearby to hit up in one trip? (Yes, some would, but, it would definitely not be as popular).

DAK is profitable because it's part of the WDW network. And MK, with less rides than DL profits from anchoring that network.

When you look at just *rides*, the four WDW parks have as many as DL/DCA. So, to hit all the rides, you are enticed to stay longer and spend more. Especially in a Disney hotel. While WDW tickets are cheaper the more days you by, the hotels are the same rate each day (mostly). Then on top of having the same number of rides (albeit spread out more), WDW has a lot more non-ride attractions.

Comparing DL to just MK is a false comparison. Each has their own network of supporting cast. And WDW has a lot more supporting cast, which make MK as profitable over all as part of that network.

People forget that when they focus on MK 'expanding.' Every time a new ride/attraction is added or refreshed at DAK, EPCOT, or DHS... that's an expansion to MK, too.

 

[DisneyHead123]

I don’t think that the riverboat and TSI are so sacrosanct that they need to stay forever, but I just don’t think this plan is an improvement

Yes this is my feeling too. Littles would be just as happy with a Tomorrowland Speedway Cars overlay with a big ol’ gift shop next to it, if Disney really wants the merch aspect. To me this is just not the kind of iconic aesthetic that should make up the heart of MK.

 

[MisterPenguin]

How does space miles away help the MK footprint?

Every sq ft of park you add runs up your daily opex… you don’t do that without serious consideration and usually new monetization

Indeed.

Refreshing/retheming a ride instead of expanding is a huge savings not only on the build, but by not inflating operational costs that come with more and more rides.

And if any ride has stale IP. Or IP no longer that popular. Or IP that is 'problematic.' Or no IP at all. Then that ride no longer synergizes with Disney branding and merch and bringing in new guests. And so, it's a retheme into a more popular IP for that ride instead of adding an expansion for that IP.

And despite "the blessing of size," a lot of that true expansion sometimes comes from having to raze BoH infrastructure. Which means often having the cost to relocate that BoH operation.

Or spending millions on stabilizing swamp land (which may also come with extra cost to buy out other wetlands and preserving them).

As an observation on my part, WDW and DLR seem to always have nearly the same number of rides. If one resort gets two more new rides... so does the other.

Almost as if it were intentional that neither resort can claim to have (significantly) more rides than the other.

 

[Incomudro]

The irony to me is if they were just doing a “National parks” area in Frontierland with the waterfalls and geysers but without the anthropomorphic Cars then it would actually IMHO be a decent idea. I don’t even mind pivoting Frontierland to be a more broad “exploring American wilderness” kind of concept. It’s just that Cars is incongruous to this all.

With some waterfront thankfully remaining, I’m mostly just bothered with using Cars at this point. If they were using Humphrey the Bear or Chip & Dale (maybe Rescue Rangers?) or Pocahontas in that area instead, I’d actually be pretty down with it. I don’t think that the riverboat and TSI are so sacrosanct that they need to stay forever, but I just don’t think this plan is an improvement

It doesn't appear that we will be able to see the cars from outside the land.
That helps a lot for me.

 

[flynnibus]

How does Disneyland run more attractions (including an intact RoA) than MK then? With fewer annual visitors? And, heck, a greater percentage of their guests are the “less favorable” Annual Passholders.

When do you see them expanding instead of replacing deadwood? They have very little unused capacity because they have had very little alternatives. Expanding like they are now requires major reworking of the larger resort.

The point is not density - but just the basic common sense that just because you have land doesn’t make expanding your operations somehow the obvious choice.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

DL saves on fireworks.

What are the numbers?

 

[easyrowrdw]

Comparing DL to just MK is a false comparison. Each has their own network of supporting cast. And WDW has a lot more supporting cast, which make MK as profitable over all as part of that network.

People forget that when they focus on MK 'expanding.' Every time a new ride/attraction is added or refreshed at DAK, EPCOT, or DHS... that's an expansion to MK, too.

No, it’s not.

 

[Dreamer19]

Yes this is my feeling too. Littles would be just as happy with a Tomorrowland Speedway Cars overlay with a big ol’ gift shop next to it, if Disney really wants the merch aspect. To me this is just not the kind of iconic aesthetic that should make up the heart of MK.

Exactly. It’s not iconic at all, nor will it be. Disney has made choices these last few years and most of the time, the choice has been the “easy way” and it’s often at the cost of the greatness that came before it.

Despite being in a certain time period, ROA, the riverboat and the island are timeless.

Can anyone say that Tiana’s Bayou Adventure will stand the test of time in the way that Splash Mountain did? What about Walking to thunder mountain with the sound of the steamboat whistle in the background while the sun sets?

Man, I hope those cars are silent…

 

[Dreamer19]

How does space miles away help the MK footprint?

Every sq ft of park you add runs up your daily opex… you don’t do that without serious consideration and usually new monetization

I know that if Disney had been more responsible with their businesses, they might have had the money to build a fifth gate. Or perhaps they could have just expanded beyond the railroad as they had in DL for Galaxy’s Edge.

 

[Dreamer19]

Most of the upcoming changes are not about expansion, they are about optimization.

If that was the case, I would be a lot happier as a Disney Shareholder….