TalkingHead
Well-Known Member
To your point, that term has more significance than the company-branded “Disney moms,” the corporate attempt to formalize and exert control over the brand/adult identity thing.
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Universal Epic Universe (South Expansion Complex) - Now Open!
- Thread starter Bob Harlem
- Start date
Minnesota disney fan
Well-Known Member
You are not the only one! Count us in as solid Universal fans now.
I don't think you are being difficult.
That depends on what data would you find solid?
Specific numbers? You could go across the company and find the ones that are consistently dropping be it theme parks, box office etc.. Steady patterns and not ebb and flow.
That does not have to be done though because results are in and it has been verified by industry that Disney has dropped in branding reputation via their metrics. In terms of dropping in appeal evidence, that is proof.
https://www.disneytouristblog.com/d...ortunes-most-admired-companies-list-for-2025/
Bob Iger himself called the parks a mature product.
It is not just internet talk. It is an actual life cycle of all business, no one really avoids it.
On the micro and immediate.
Supply and demand from the consumer is evident, as FL resident park tickets to parks not MK have dropped to about 60 dollars for the first time in a very long time(decades) and the FL resident base in numbers is larger than ever.
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Disneyhead'71
Well-Known Member
Good, bad, or ugly. In 8 days Universal is gonna unleash this unholy abomination.
The Today Show is going to broadcast live from the parks for 4 days. They are live streaming the Grand Opening Celebration on the evening of the 21st. And there is a 3 episode Universal Studios Theme Parks documentary that includes Epic debuting on Peacock in July.
Buckle up Buttercup, it's going to be an interesting Summer.
Potter 2010 was a shot across the bough.
This is turning the ship sideways and firing all the cannons.
The Today Show is going to broadcast live from the parks for 4 days. They are live streaming the Grand Opening Celebration on the evening of the 21st. And there is a 3 episode Universal Studios Theme Parks documentary that includes Epic debuting on Peacock in July.
Buckle up Buttercup, it's going to be an interesting Summer.
Potter 2010 was a shot across the bough.
This is turning the ship sideways and firing all the cannons.
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TennHokies
Member
Our upcoming family trip in 3-weeks is 4 nights/5 days on campus at Universal with a round trip Lift ride one night to Hollywood Studio for a 3 hour after hours event. The tides they are a turnin’ for sure.
Sir_Cliff
Well-Known Member
Is it true that we see a steady downward trend for the theme parks and box office? It seems that right up until the pandemic they were going up and up, and since then it is harder to tell if there is a consistent trend. In recent quarters, for example, Disney theme parks seem to have been performing a lot better than Comcast's. I know the response is often that people are waiting for Epic Universe which may turn out to be true, but, either way, those numbers are so far not showing big shift away from Disney as far as I can tell.
Disney's Box office also seems to drop off around the pandemic and in its immediate aftermath and then begin to climb again. At the same time, Disney has also become one of the main players in streaming and is apparently still seeing growth in subscribers.
Surely, though, if WDW is a mature product this would also be an issue for Universal in Orlando. If the market for WDW is mature with little room for growth, where are all the extra people who want to visit theme parks in Orlando going to come from to support Universal's expansion? That would suggest Universal's only real play with these expansions is attracting a greater share of the visitors who would have previously gone to WDW.
Again, this is not to suggest everything's great at Disney. I would just want more evidence that there is a great shift happening, particularly a generational shift away from Disney. Personally, I don't find WDW a great value proposition right now and am not really interested in visiting. I see numbers like those that came out last quarter, though, and I find it hard to argue that Disney is suffering because more and more people think like me.
Comcast
For example, it can be FL residents are going to Uni more than ever and Disney at a lesser rate.
Mature product and mature market are different.
And that does not include ancillary spend.
For hypothetical purposes if spending is less at WDW and more at Uni, even if attending numbers were both the same, means you are losing to your competition sees gain from your loss.
Your second post specifically is opposite of true. Demand in travel has ebb and flow but not that much to where it guarantees less of relative earnings for Universal. In business, if a product loses many customers of value proposition, a present competitor in the market gains them.
We are currently seeing this.
These are proven theories and not the most exciting things, but with these posts there are evident.
Disney's box office ROI has yet to come back post pandemic. This is particuarly evident with the many disney family attempts that performed lower than family films and animation from other studios. There have been a few wins amongst a lot of loss.
While it takes longer to feel, it goes in line with what the metrics prove with branding and shift in interest.
None of this is exclusively true in business and guest spending patterns.
For example, it can be FL residents are going to Uni more than ever and Disney at a lesser rate.
Mature product and mature market are different.
And that does not include ancillary spend.
For hypothetical purposes if spending is less at WDW and more at Uni, even if attending numbers were both the same, means you are losing to your competition sees gain from your loss.
Your second post specifically is opposite of true. Demand in travel has ebb and flow but not that much to where it guarantees less of relative earnings for Universal. In business, if a product loses many customers of value proposition, a present competitor in the market gains them.
We are currently seeing this.
These are proven theories and not the most exciting things, but with these posts there are evident.
Disney's box office ROI has yet to come back post pandemic. This is particuarly evident with the many disney family attempts that performed lower than family films and animation from other studios. There have been a few wins amongst a lot of loss.
While it takes longer to feel, it goes in line with what the metrics prove with branding and shift in interest.
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networkpro
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- Yes
A liberal application of oil and seasonings on all guests as they bake in the sun.
MrPromey
Well-Known Member
Your not - that's us too but in my case at least, it's not so much that Universal just completely won us over as it was that we were Disney's to lose and they lost us.
I'm at a stage in life where I have to do all the un-fun stuff around trips, including pay for them. Low stress is better than any attachment I have to Haunted Mansion. Universal gives me that and my son's at an age where a lot of their themes are more interesting to him than a half baked Toy Story mini-land.
He really liked Rise but not enough to pick Disney when given the choice this year.
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Disney Maddux
Well-Known Member
If this is meant to mean that Unchained's lighting is finally getting improved (and the removal of that black curtain), I'll be very happy.
Agent H
Well-Known Member
a Mack twist and splash would fit the area perfectly.
Agent H
Well-Known Member
I don’t understand why some people on this board have such a problem with this trend. Many of them are “Disney adults “ yet They seem to scoff at it as if it’s a problem.
Tom Morrow
Well-Known Member
Ooh, I'll answer this one because this is something I'm actually really adamant about: there is a big difference between a "Disney Adult" and fans of theme parks that just happen to love/have loved Disney Parks.
A lot of us on here went to WDW as a kid in the 80's or 90's and fell in love with that version of WDW. When we became adults we continued to love that version and registered here to discuss it, the version that catered to everyone, the version that didn't seem like it was shoving the Disney brand down your throat every moment it could. That version did cool and amazing things just because it could, not just to satisfy marketing and synergy requirements. You could very much be a big fan of the Disney Parks without being someone who lives and breathes the Disney brand.
Then, about 15 years ago (give or take), the tides began to change. What started as slowly dropping IP here and there where it sort of didn't fit has snowballed into the parks now being largely devoid of their intended identity in favor of IP marketing and brand synergy.
In this same timeframe we have seen a rise in social media and, consequently, a rise in Disney lifestylers and Disney social media influencers/wannabe influencers. Disney didn't create this movement, but they certainly leaned hard into it once it gained traction, which was only propped up even further by their snowballing changes to the parks toward more and more brand synergy.
The end result is that the demographics of Disney park guests have changed. Today. the parks seem to be full of Disney Adults, as in, people who are there for the Disney brand itself. I actually find it a little off-putting - today, you walk around every Disney park except MK and it feels like the average guest is now a trendy 20-something that is absolutely there for the brand, not for being someone that loves theme parks.
And I mean, it's fine, whatever, I'm not going to gatekeep enjoyment of the parks or how people enjoy them, but, to me this demographic of Disney park guests does come off as feeling forced and not genuine in a way that us theme park nerds never have (we're of course obnoxious in our own ways!)
Side note, I've seen a similar trend with HHN going from a somewhat niche event for horror fans to literally singlehandedly the trendiest event in Central Florida.
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Agent H
Well-Known Member
I suppose that’s fair. It’s really the difference between the people who like the parks because they’re good storytelling experiences and the people who go to see their favorite characters. Me I’ve been going constantly since 2013 when I was 4 so I’ve been raised on the parks and the movies and shows at the same time so I’m probably the most in the middle of the people on this board. Which explains why my opinions on things are often ridiculously specific and varied. The thing that bothers me is when some people (not you) act unnecessary condescending as if their smarter then the people who go mostly for the IP.
Oh I’m definitely a newbie to that. I’ve only been the last 2 years and both times it was for an Ip I’m a fan of. I like the idea of original stories at horror nights but I don’t think a scare maze is a good place for it. The whole thing is just too loud and crazy for it IMO.
freediverdude
Well-Known Member
Plus I think Disney has masked the attendance numbers by having increased revenue through all the nickel and diming, essentially milking the customers that remain loyal as some kind of lifestyle brand. It's kind of twisted and probably unsustainable in the long run, and opens Disney up to large swings in attendance/revenue, if that demographic decides to move on.
Sir_Cliff
Well-Known Member
I don't want to derail this thread any further, but I still get the impression a lot of the very bold pronouncements about Disney losing their customer base or, in this case, entire generations are backed more by general impressions or opinions than anything else.
The broader point, though, was whether we are indeed seeing what you assert we are currently seeing, ie. a drift of customers from Disney to Universal. I'm sure in individual cases that is true and may be so for some demographics, but I keep hearing this and then see quarterly reports from both companies that don't tell the same story. I would certainly be happy for Universal to be putting pressure on Disney in terms of price and experience. However, I do wonder whether this is largely wishful thinking from fans.
If, alternatively, Universal is mostly growing the market by either attracting people who otherwise wouldn't have gone to Orlando, including families that have tired or been priced out of WDW, that is likely a net positive for both companies. From Disney's perspective, they may at least get a day or two of vacations from visitors from which they previously would have received zero.
The point I was making related to the idea that Orlando was a mature market, ie. that it had low growth potential. So, what I was saying was exactly what you are suggesting here is happening between Disney and Universal, that is that Universal's growth is largely coming at Disney's expense. I don't, by the way, think this is necessarily true.
The broader point, though, was whether we are indeed seeing what you assert we are currently seeing, ie. a drift of customers from Disney to Universal. I'm sure in individual cases that is true and may be so for some demographics, but I keep hearing this and then see quarterly reports from both companies that don't tell the same story. I would certainly be happy for Universal to be putting pressure on Disney in terms of price and experience. However, I do wonder whether this is largely wishful thinking from fans.
If, alternatively, Universal is mostly growing the market by either attracting people who otherwise wouldn't have gone to Orlando, including families that have tired or been priced out of WDW, that is likely a net positive for both companies. From Disney's perspective, they may at least get a day or two of vacations from visitors from which they previously would have received zero.
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You "think"?
Disney's SEC filings says that attendance is up *and* spending per guest is up.
It doesn't have to be one or the other. They both can be true.
There's no "masking" going on. Disney's report to the Security Exchange Commission is public, and lying in it is criminal. Most companies try to avoid criminal indictments.
And claiming something you *think* is true, without really knowing, and then getting all mad about it... well, I worry about your health. There are plenty of real things we're sure exists to rage over than things we *think* is true. Increased prices is real and angering. Conspiracy theories of hiding a drop off in attendance isn't true.
To be fair though, HHN basically represents half of UOR’s revenue each year