MK Stitch's Great Escape Replacement— Don’t Hold Your Breath

[Cmdr_Crimson]

Removal of Toy Story Aliens merch stand that didn't fit

That should just get moved to TSL..

 

[MrPromey]

I’m confused ?

If this was World Showcase I would agree but what would you expect to see in FW ?

The Electric Umbrella wasn’t exactly the pinnacle of themed design. Tacky and outdated as well as ugly would be the words I would describe it.

In Future World I'd expect something that looks... futuristic rather than contemporary?

I guess Future World is gone though, right?

I mean if you're a 20-30 something without kids, it's nice enough a place to eat. It's clean looking. It's minimalist upscale, to some degree.

As a relatively non-descript fast-service restaurant serving both pizza and psuedo-asian dishes among other things, there's nothing wrong with it.

In "World Celebration" (which is where this lands now, right?), I don't know what I should expect to be there but convention center contemporary isn't it for me.

No argument that Electric Umbrella was past its prime. What it was fit with the 90's redo of FW which far outlived it's fit. Same with Mousegears so I don't begrudge that they were replaced.

I'd just argue that the replacements seem essentailly unthemed - could have been part of a convention hotel, could have been in an upscale mall, could have been fast-service at an airport - really any place you'd find a collection of food choces that isn't locked behind the $150 pawall of admission... Could have been the Riviera resort, I suppose.

I get your point, though - what the heck do you theme for "World Celebration"? Too bad they had no choice but to call this entire area World Celebration and then be left with having to theme things based on that non-descript concept, eh?

 

[James Alucobond]

In Future World I'd expect something that looks... futuristic rather than contemporary?

I guess Future World is gone though, right?

Future World was always fairly contemporary in its design, just with exhibits that were cutting edge at their opening. Monumental and impressive, but contemporary.

 

[MrPromey]

Future World was always fairly contemporary in its design, just with exhibits that were cutting edge at their opening. Monumental and impressive, but contemporary.

So an orb holding an attraction you walk under was contemporary?

A pavilion with solar panels was contemporary in 1982?

You'd call the design of WOM contemporary?

You'd say the experimental construction techniques used to build Horizons was contemporary?

Things like the Fountain of Nations predating anything like the Bellagio by decades was contemporary?

the semi-circular Comunicore halls with mutli-level design visible through the giant windows was not something that i'd have considered common looking at all in the 80's. All that got dumbed down over time and some (ADA) for good reasons but I'd hardly call any of it contemporary when it opened.

This redo was a totally clean slate, though. they weren't constrained by existing design like they were with the half-a$$ed previous redos - remember they tore down a building to basically rebuild most of its layout in the exact same spot and then tore down another building to put an exhibit that faces away from the spine in its place. They certainly had options.

"Jumping" water?

We'll agree to disagree, I guess.

 

[UNCgolf]

I'd just argue that the replacements seem essentailly unthemed - could have been part of a convention hotel, could have been in an upscale mall, could have been fast-service at an airport - really any place you'd find a collection of food choces that isn't locked behind the $150 pawall of admission... Could have been the Riviera resort, I suppose.

To be fair, this would also describe Electric Umbrella when it opened. It was very much of its era. It looked pretty similar to mall food courts and movie theater concession areas from that time period.

 

[MrPromey]

To be fair, this would also describe Electric Umbrella when it opened. It was very much like a contemporary mall food court or a concession area at a movie theater.

It matched the energy of the redo of the area around it. It was certainly tacky, especially by modern standards but it shared a building with part of Inoventions and as a rather minor renovation, didn't take years to develop, either.

Through the eyes of an 8 year old, I'd have to imagine it was more interesting than Creations is (even if the food options for adults is better, now).

This just feels like the design sensibility is geared toward 20-30-somemthings without children. Given how this park largely relies on alcohol and finger food sales these days, maybe those are the demographics this design was meant for, though.

This entire area felt like a punt. For as much talk as there was on this forum about how much people loved the park-like design and how they looked forward to spending time basking in that atmosphere, all I saw when were were there was the stray person here and there that seemed like they were waiting for someone who was on a ride looking at their phone hanging out.

I suppose this restaurant matches the energy of that area around it, too, though, doesn't it?

 

[UNCgolf]

It matched the energy of the redo of the area around it. It was certainly tacky, especially by modern standards but it shared a building with part of Inoventions and didn't take years to open, either.

I suppose this matches the engery of the area around it, too, though, doesn't it?

I wouldn't even call it tacky (at least at the time), just based on contemporary design trends (which I am personally rather fond of in a nostalgic way, because I was a kid when that style was in vogue).

I don't really have a problem with EPCOT's overhaul using contemporary trends because I think there's always been some of that at EPCOT. To me, the problem now is less the underlying design style and more the execution -- mainly in the surrounding areas rather than Connections itself, which is ultimately okay to me and not a major problem compared to other parts of the re-do.

 

[MrPromey]

I wouldn't even call it tacky (at least at the time), just based on contemporary design trends (which I am personally rather fond of in a nostalgic way, because I was a kid when that style was in vogue).

I don't really have a problem with EPCOT's overhaul using contemporary trends because I think there's always been some of that at EPCOT. To me, the problem now is less the underlying design style and more the execution -- mainly in the surrounding areas rather than Connections itself, which is ultimately okay to me and not a major problem compared to other parts of the re-do.

Maybe that's really my underlying gripe.

Food was reasonably good. It was open and clean. It was certainly bigger thanks to the loss of attraction space that used to be in the same building. This whole area just felt like the revitalized urban downtown of my own city to me, though. Put a few 5 story condo/apartment complexes in (cement for the first floor with retail and then wood all the rest of the way up, painted in alternating bold colors) and a small fenced in dog park and they'd have pretty much nailed it.

 

[James Alucobond]

So an orb holding an attraction you walk under was contemporary?

A pavilion with solar panels was contemporary in 1982?

You'd call the design of WOM contemporary?

You'd say the experimental construction techniques used to build Horizons was contemporary?

Things like the Fountain of Nations predating anything like the Bellagio by decades was contemporary?

the semi-circular Comunicore halls with mutli-level design visible through the giant windows was not something that i'd have considered common looking at all in the 80's. All that got dumbed down over time and some (ADA) for good reasons but I'd hardly call any of it contemporary when it opened.

This redo was a totally clean slate, though. they weren't constrained by existing design like they were with the half-a$$ed previous redos - remember they tore down a building to basically rebuild most of its layout in the exact same spot and then tore down another building to put an exhibit that faces away from the spine in its place. They certainly had options.

"Jumping" water?

We'll agree to disagree, I guess.

It was contemporary with the ambition and scale appropriate for something mimicking a World's Fair. Spaceship Earth is obviously a unique centerpiece, but the other buildings are not out of character for the time. Look at the Slovak Radio Building, the Saddledome, the Kuwait Towers, the Metropolitan Cathedral of Saint Sebastian, etc.

 

[MrPromey]

It was contemporary with the ambition and scale appropriate for something mimicking a World's Fair. Spaceship Earth is obviously a unique centerpiece, but the other buildings are not out of character for the time. Look at the Slovak Radio Building, the Saddledome, the Kuwait Towers, the Metropolitan Cathedral of Saint Sebastian, etc.

Great examples of architecture you wouldn't find in most places at the time.

So lets say it was "contemporary with the ambition and scale appropriate for something mimicking a World's Fair" which I'd say is a safe statement since the look of the pavilions of the corporate sponsored "future-like" pavilion sections of something like the 1964 World's fair were not intended to look like common structures of their own time (similar to your excellent examples that clearly stand out as landmarks to this day for a reason).

What would you say the ambition and scale is of what they were trying to mimic with this redo?

 

[James Alucobond]

Great examples of architecture you wouldn't find in most places at the time.

So lets say it was "contemporary with the ambition and scale appropriate for something mimicking a World's Fair" which I'd say is a safe statement since the look of the pavilions of the corporate sponsored "future-like" pavilion sections of something like the 1964 World's fair were not intended to look of their own time either, what would you say the ambition and scale is of what they were trying to mimic with this redo?

You're talking about something I wasn't responding to in your post. You were complaining about the contemporary interior of Connections, suggesting it should be futuristic instead. I was saying that the interiors were always contemporary, in line with the monumental contemporary exteriors. This was not meant as a defense of the obvious blunders in western World Celebration.

 

[MrPromey]

You're talking about something I wasn't responding to in your post. You were complaining about the contemporary interior of Connections, suggesting it should be futuristic instead. I was saying that the interiors were always contemporary, in line with the monumental contemporary exteriors. This was not meant as a defense of the obvious blunders in western World Celebration.

I'm confused.

So you're saying those references to all these other structures and to the World's Fair were about their interiors rather than their exteriors?

Or did I just accidentally lead you off my original topic and this was you backtracking to the original point (which you'd be absolutely right about, I did stray a couple posts back)

In the end, I guess what I really mean though, is that it's incredibly bland, uninteresting and nondescript.

But in thinking about it, that may be the intent of the design. Large cavernous space without much to catch the eye creates an environment people are unlikely to want to linger in.

I keep thinking of the food areas in Las Vegas hotel convention centers and I suppose in that context, it might make sense. Just like those spaces, they want you to come in, eat and then get out so someone else can use that table - not feel like you're in a cozy place to relax and take interest in your surroundings.

All the more heavily themed spaces across property for food attend to be nightmares during the meal-rush periods.

It didn't feel at all congested when we ate there at lunch time. Maybe that's why?

 

[Cmdr_Crimson]

No argument that Electric Umbrella was past its prime. What it was fit with the 90's redo of FW which far outlived it's fit. Same with Mousegears so I don't begrudge that they were replaced.

The Temporary version of MouseGears was what I was thinking they were going to do once they were remodeling the store..Hard to believe this is now the seating area for Connections...

 

[James Alucobond]

I'm confused.

So you're saying those references to all these other structures and to the World's Fair were about their interiors rather than their exteriors?

Or did I just accidentally lead you off my original topic and this was you backtracking to the original point (which you're absolutely right, I did stray from)

In the end, I guess what I really mean though, is that it's incredibly bland, uninteresting and nondescript.

But in thinking about it, that may be intentional. Large cavernous space, without much to catch the eye creates an environment people are unlikely to want to linger in.

I keep thinking of the food areas in Las Vegas hotel convention centers and I suppose in that context, it might make sense. Just like those spaces, they want you to come in, eat and then get out so someone else can use that table - not feel like you're in a cozy place to relax and take interest in your surroundings.

It didn't feel at all congested when we ate there at lunch time. Maybe that's why?

I mean that the part of your post that I quoted was very specifically in relation to you thinking that the Connections interior should be futuristic, with which I disagree. I only broached the subject of the exteriors because you did in response, but they are similarly relevant because they were also contemporary, even if they were special within that context.

Perhaps I'm anomalous, but I never walked into the Centorium thinking I was in the future; I just thought I was in a very nice shop with lovely displays. To me, that should still be the feeling today. Is enough being done to make it feel expensive and impeccable? No, but that doesn't mean that the right path forward is to make it a gimmicky vision of the future that will quickly become passé.

 

[Ayla]

They probably haven’t done anything with it because it’s already one of the most popular restaurants in the park and it wouldn’t really be worth it to change it separate from a big Tomorrowland overhaul.

You're confusing largest with popular.

 

[MrPromey]

I mean that the part of your post that I quoted was very specifically in relation to you thinking that the Connections interior should be futuristic, with which I disagree. I only broached the subject of the exteriors because you did in response, but they are similarly relevant because they were also contemporary, even if they were special within that context.

Perhaps I'm anomalous, but I never walked into the Centorium thinking I was in the future; I just thought I was in a very nice shop with lovely displays. To me, that should still be the feeling today. Is enough being done to make it feel expensive and impeccable? No, but that doesn't mean that the right path forward is to make it a gimmicky vision of the future that will quickly become passé.

Except it's not in Future World anymore, right?

Like I said back when first questioned, it's now a part of "World Celebration".

What fits that theme?

Given everything else encompassed on that weirdly carved out section of the park (according to the map), I'm not sure Disney knows, either.

This has similar design sensibility to the redo of the land courtyard which I feel lost a lot of its charm too but it at least seemed to fit since that was basically borrowing the airport theme in abstract that spilled out from Soarin'.

I mean, none of it hurts anything. There's nothing offensive about any of it. I just found the entire center spine to be forgettable (restaurant and retail included).

I think both you and UNCgolf are probably right though and my gripe is more with the entire spine than these two spots and I'm just picking on the restaurant.

Anyway, thank you for the engagement. I enjoyed your thoughtful responses.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Except it's not in Future World anymore, right?

Like I said back when first questioned, it's now a part of "World Celebration".

Correct. "Future World" is dead.

I don't like WDW's use of the three neighborhoods for what was once Future World. It could have all been called 'World Celebration,' or, more pointedly to help everyone understand: World Fair.

'World Celebration' is themed to festivals. Namely the seasonal festivals of EPCOT. It's somewhat festive. Somewhat global. Somewhat themed to a big world party... but it keeps falling short of nailing it. Especially with the Hub Planter and Communicore Hall being a disappointment compared to the original artist concept.

Connections is the area's fast-food cafeteria... with a contemporary flair. Not meant to be anything more than that.

I like it. The burgers are good. It's always busy.

And that's why SGE is sitting empty. (Sorry, I had to bring it back on topic! )

 

[Agent H]

You're confusing largest with popular.

I mean it’s filled with a ton and I mean a ton of people all the time. Do you have evidence that suggests it isn’t popular?

 

[Cmdr_Crimson]

And that's why SGE is sitting empty. (Sorry, I had to bring it back on topic! )

Perhaps it's just better off gutted out and made into a bigger startraders store instead of having 2 on either side of the attraction..

 

[Ayla]

I mean it’s filled with a ton and I mean a ton of people all the time. Do you have evidence that suggests it isn’t popular?

When there are few QS options to choose from, of course it is going to be busy. Lack of options doesn't equal popular. The food is awful.