News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[Stripes]

You don’t have to actually have legitimate concerns to tie things up in legislation. That’s the whole reason this thread exists.

Again, there were, in fact, legitimate issues with the development agreement that RCID signed. CFTOD was not wrong about that.

There are no issues with the development agreement signed with CFTOD. A court would quickly side with Disney on a preliminary injunction stopping the district from interfering with Disney’s development plans.

 

[Chi84]

You don’t have to actually have legitimate concerns to tie things up in legislation. That’s the whole reason this thread exists.

But what are you trying to establish? That some unspecified action could be taken at some uncertain point in the future?

 

[lazyboy97o]

But what are you trying to establish? That some unspecified action could be taken at some uncertain point in the future?

That Disney was complying in advance and did not get the better of the state.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Again, there were, in fact, legitimate issues with the development agreement that RCID signed. CFTOD was not wrong about that.

There are no issues with the development agreement signed with CFTOD. A court would quickly side with Disney on a preliminary injunction stopping the district from interfering with Disney’s development plans.

There were no issues with the development regulations based on the 2020 Comprehensive Plan. Those were still in effect and not challenged by the first board. They would have been required to follow them if they tried to interfere with Disney’s development.

A court would not just out of hand reject interference if it was couched in terms of something like health, safety and welfare. That would be reason to enjoin Disney from proceeding while the matter is litigated. NIMBYs stall allowed development all the time, so it isn’t even some crazy hypothetical. The base assumption is that it’s easier to delay a project than mitigate harms after the fact.

Development control is also just the process that offers the most leeway in actually enacting the stated goals of controlling content. It has the biggest payoff. A development agreement cannot stop the board from cutting the building department’s budget, adopting stricter qualifications for plan reviewers and increasing permit fees. Nor would it prevent them from implementing their ride safety authority and enacting onerous regulations. Not being able to open a new half billion dollar ride seems like the sort of thing that may encourage a reconsideration of agreements.

 

[UNCgolf]

I think if you polled independent attorneys the vast majority would tell you Disney came out on the losing end and is in a worse position than they were before things started.

It's obviously not as bad as it could have been, but it's difficult for me to understand how anyone could call this a win for Disney compared to their previous position.

 

[Stripes]

A court would not just out of hand reject interference if it was couched in terms of something like health, safety and welfare. That would be reason to enjoin Disney from proceeding while the matter is litigated. NIMBYs stall allowed development all the time, so it isn’t even some crazy hypothetical. The base assumption is that it’s easier to delay a project than mitigate harms after the fact.

When there is a valid development agreement, courts reject bogus lawsuits from NIMBYs couched in health, safety, and welfare on a regular basis.

The plaintiff must present EVIDENCE showing a likelihood of success on their health and safety claim before a court grants a preliminary injunction.

There were no issues with the development regulations based on the 2020 Comprehensive Plan. Those were still in effect and not challenged by the first board. They would have been required to follow them if they tried to interfere with Disney’s development.

Until the board inevitably adopted a new comprehensive plan that all future development in the district had to comply with.

 

[Stripes]

It's obviously not as bad as it could have been, but it's difficult for me to understand how anyone could call this a win for Disney compared to their previous position.

Compared to RCID, it’s slightly less desirable. But far more desirable than the situation in Anaheim.

Disney was not entitled to RCID in perpetuity. The state could have altered RCID at any point in time.

The lawsuits began when the district sought to invalidate a development agreement that granted Disney all the development rights in the district and it ended with the district signing a new development agreement with Disney vesting in them all the development rights in the district.

 

[mkt]

It was discussed at length in this thread about how governments are given wide discretion to carry out their powers, especially if it is something they are specifically empowered to do. Regulating development is a core function of the District. So long as those involved were smart enough to not broadcast their intent then the courts would more likely refuse to infer motivation, and even less so to connect it to actions taken by others years earlier.

Sure. Governments have wide discretion. But that discretion is not unlimited, especially when it comes to retaliation or chilling speech. That was the core of Disney’s federal case. Not that the state created a new board, but that it did so in direct response to protected speech.

And as for “not broadcasting intent,” that ship already sailed. The governor said the quiet part out loud more than once. So did his spokespeople. So did board members. The record is full of quotes that connect the state’s actions to Disney’s public stance on legislation. You do not need to infer much when the motivation was publicly declared.

If the board makes a move that disrupts active development without solid legal basis, Disney will not need to connect it to years-old actions. They will just need to quote what was said in front of cameras last year.

 

[lazyboy97o]

When there is a valid development agreement, courts reject bogus lawsuits from NIMBYs couched in health, safety, and welfare on a regular basis.

The plaintiff must present EVIDENCE showing a likelihood of success on their health and safety claim before a court grants a preliminary injunction.

The entire basis for zoning is health, safety and welfare, so the bar isn’t going to be particularly high. Before, the District would have had no evidence to ask for their own regulations to be suspended. In the future, the District can do that work.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Sure. Governments have wide discretion. But that discretion is not unlimited, especially when it comes to retaliation or chilling speech. That was the core of Disney’s federal case. Not that the state created a new board, but that it did so in direct response to protected speech.

And as for “not broadcasting intent,” that ship already sailed. The governor said the quiet part out loud more than once. So did his spokespeople. So did board members. The record is full of quotes that connect the state’s actions to Disney’s public stance on legislation. You do not need to infer much when the motivation was publicly declared.

If the board makes a move that disrupts active development without solid legal basis, Disney will not need to connect it to years-old actions. They will just need to quote what was said in front of cameras last year.

Courts have essentially told governments to “try again” and come up with better explanations for their actions. They give that deference. And when the issues returns they only look at the new reasoning. The district is supposed to do certain things. Doing those things will not automatically be assumed to be connected to past actions and words, especially as more time passes. The board has already had significant turnover. The state government will also change.

The federal court is also going to have limited authority to interfere with what would be a local issue based on local powers. So the immediate issue of moving forward with development would be a new state case even more legally disconnected from the stated censorship efforts.

 

[mkt]

Courts have essentially told governments to “try again” and come up with better explanations for their actions. They give that deference. And when the issues returns they only look at the new reasoning. The district is supposed to do certain things. Doing those things will not automatically be assumed to be connected to past actions and words, especially as more time passes. The board has already had significant turnover. The state government will also change.

The federal court is also going to have limited authority to interfere with what would be a local issue based on local powers. So the immediate issue of moving forward with development would be a new state case even more legally disconnected from the stated censorship efforts.

Yes. That was the entire basis for Disney’s federal lawsuit. The legal argument was not that Florida lacked the power to restructure the district. The argument was that it did so as retaliation for Disney’s protected speech. That is a First Amendment violation.

Governments can regulate. They cannot punish companies for expressing a political opinion. The moment DeSantis and his allies publicly tied the district’s dissolution to Disney’s opposition of the law, they gave that lawsuit real traction.

Disney was not fighting the structure. They were fighting the motive. And if that motive shows up again in how the board treats development, the case comes right back.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Disney was not fighting the structure. They were fighting the motive. And if that motive shows up again in how the board treats development, the case comes right back.

Again, courts have said “You can do this but not for this reason, so try again.” They then consider the new reasoning in isolation. They will not just assume that any and every adverse action is for that same motivation. Especially when different people are involved.

 

[mkt]

Again, courts have said “You can do this but not for this reason, so try again.” They then consider the new reasoning in isolation. They will not just assume that any and every adverse action is for that same motivation. Especially when different people are involved.

Just to clarify, I think there may be some confusion between the federal and state cases.

The federal lawsuit was about retaliation. Disney argued that the state dissolved Reedy Creek and replaced it with a state-controlled board as punishment for Disney’s protected speech. That is a First Amendment issue. It was dismissed without prejudice, meaning it can be brought back if similar retaliation happens again.

The state case was about the development agreements Disney signed before the board was replaced. That was a separate legal fight over contracts and local governance. It was settled last year.

What Disney preserved in the federal case is not about zoning powers or board turnover. It is about motive. If the new board starts blocking projects and the reasoning lines up with past political pressure, that gives Disney grounds to revive the case. It is not about what the board is allowed to do. It is about why they are doing it.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Just to clarify, I think there may be some confusion between the federal and state cases.

The federal lawsuit was about retaliation. Disney argued that the state dissolved Reedy Creek and replaced it with a state-controlled board as punishment for Disney’s protected speech. That is a First Amendment issue. It was dismissed without prejudice, meaning it can be brought back if similar retaliation happens again.

The state case was about the development agreements Disney signed before the board was replaced. That was a separate legal fight over contracts and local governance. It was settled last year.

What Disney preserved in the federal case is not about zoning powers or board turnover. It is about motive. If the new board starts blocking projects and the reasoning lines up with past political pressure, that gives Disney grounds to revive the case. It is not about what the board is allowed to do. It is about why they are doing it.

I am not confused.

The federal case resuming would be instigated by something related to how the district is exercising its power, a new local issue. They would be triggering a new state-level fight about something that would have the most near-term impact on development. A federal court would be limited in its ability to intervene in that new state-level case and might even let the state-level case play out first.

 

[flynnibus]

The lawsuits began when the district sought to invalidate a development agreement that granted Disney all the development rights in the district and it ended with the district signing a new development agreement with Disney vesting in them all the development rights in the district.

 

[Stripes]

View attachment 856385

The difference being that the first development agreement genuinely had significant issues with regard to its compliance with the law. The new development agreement is on solid legal footing.

 

[mkt]

I am not confused.

The federal case resuming would be instigated by something related to how the district is exercising its power, a new local issue. They would be triggering a new state-level fight about something that would have the most near-term impact on development. A federal court would be limited in its ability to intervene in that new state-level case and might even let the state-level case play out first.

Appreciate the clarification. But the trigger for resuming the federal case would not be a generic local zoning dispute. It would need to show signs of retaliatory intent tied to Disney’s past speech. If the board takes action that clearly tracks with the original political motives, that opens the door for a First Amendment challenge again.

Yes, development issues usually stay in state court. But if those actions are framed or justified in ways that echo the original retaliation - especially if there is continued political messaging - then the federal court may not view it as just a new zoning spat. It could be seen as part of the same pattern.

The difference is not what the board does. It’s why they do it. And that distinction is exactly what gives the federal case room to return.

 

[Stripes]

The entire basis for zoning is health, safety and welfare, so the bar isn’t going to be particularly high. Before, the District would have had no evidence to ask for their own regulations to be suspended. In the future, the District can do that work.

Zoning authority isn’t a blank check. A government can’t just manufacture a flimsy health or safety rationale to block development it doesn’t like—especially when it previously granted vested rights. Courts can and do strike down such tactics when they’re pretextual or unsupported.

Again, you’re relying on unrealistic hypotheticals and exaggerating the consequences.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Appreciate the clarification. But the trigger for resuming the federal case would not be a generic local zoning dispute. It would need to show signs of retaliatory intent tied to Disney’s past speech. If the board takes action that clearly tracks with the original political motives, that opens the door for a First Amendment challenge again.

Yes, development issues usually stay in state court. But if those actions are framed or justified in ways that echo the original retaliation - especially if there is continued political messaging - then the federal court may not view it as just a new zoning spat. It could be seen as part of the same pattern.

The difference is not what the board does. It’s why they do it. And that distinction is exactly what gives the federal case room to return.

Resuming the federal case does not require new retaliatory action. That would only be so if the case had been dismissed with prejudice. The original claims regarding the state’s action are still available and still what would be argued about in federal court.

New actions by the district would require new evidence as to their intent. That’s a bar that rises with time. And even with that evidence, it may still not rise to a federal issue.

 

[Dranth]

Zoning authority isn’t a blank check. A government can’t just manufacture a flimsy health or safety rationale to block development it doesn’t like—especially when it previously granted vested rights. Courts can and do strike down such tactics when they’re pretextual or unsupported.

Yes, a government can manufacture flimsy rational for just about anything. The question is does a person or company want to deal with the time, legal cost and publicity to fight it. Given much of what I have seen this year, the answer is mostly no which shouldn't be surprising to anyone.

Companies want to make money, espoused principles are a secondary concern.