Disney Analyst
Well-Known Member
Fantastic point.
It’s wild hypocrisy in the end. The same people screaming about Disney’s issues give Universal a pass.
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Universal Epic Universe (South Expansion Complex) - Opens May 22 2025
- Thread starter Bob Harlem
- Start date
Fantastic point.
It’s wild hypocrisy in the end. The same people screaming about Disney’s issues give Universal a pass.
New $2 Bus Service Connects Walt Disney World and Universal Epic Universe
A new bus service now connects Walt Disney World and Universal Epic Universe for only $2 per person. Here are the details
blogmickey.com
Andrew C
You know what's funny?
If Disney gave us a new theme park like Epic, they would likely get a pass on its minor shortcomings as well. If what they promised looked awesome, and what they delivered was awesome as well, they would get a pass. Instead we get the Epcot disaster and the destruction of Frontierland. One side is providing value and justifying cost. The other side is not.
rd805
Well-Known Member
I was going to post something very similar to this effect: If Disney was building a brand new theme park, I'd have a tough time picking it a part as well (I'm firmly with Epic as my posts have shown ha), as in the end I just want new attractions & experiences with modern & the newest technology/ideas.
That's what I thought, too, only now, with lights.
hopemax
Well-Known Member
It's also trend lines. Disney's last two stateside theme parks were DCA and Animal Kingdom. Having actually been to Epic, and experiencing the opening of both of these "online" and visiting within the first year of ops for both, it's hard not to burst out laughing at the complaints I'm reading. I kind of wish some of you had been around when DCA opened, because if people are this agitated about things in Epic, I would have loved to seen the ranting that would have accompanied the descriptions of Bountiful Valley Farm, the Tortilla Tour, Superstar Limo and the way you would get baked walking around any place not Condor Flats / Redwood Creek. 2001 DCA was truly a sight to behold, and not in a good way. And while I personally enjoyed the exploration aspect of Animal Kingdom, the whole "nahtazu" campaign, quick elimination of the Discovery Boats and the reviews for both the Jungle Book show, and the silly little Pocahontas show indicated how poorly the general audience received it. It's not just these recent major projects. Disney has struggled for a long time to pull off a grand projects like they did with Disneyland, Magic Kingdom, Epcot, Disneyland Paris and Tokyo DisneySea.
Meanwhile, Universal set a high bar with IOA back in the day, and Epic may not be everything individual people wanted, but still has a set of very solid bones, that hits the right emotional chords. To quote Walt Disney about Disneyland: "I wanted something live, something that could grow, something I could keep plussing with ideas, you see? The park is that. Not only can I add things but even the trees will keep growing; the thing will get more beautiful every year." Epic will grow, although I am very concerned about the unpredictable economic environment Epic is opening in, affecting long range plans. I don't look at Epic and see major fundamental flaws, that will require major investments to even begin to address, unlike those two parks. Or HKDL or Walt Disney Studios in Paris. AK and DCA still have audience problems. Although DCA's is finally getting better, for me, as long as I stay out of
We went to Epcot / DHS yesterday and almost melted. Cosmic Rewind building and Soaring building towering over themed elements. Maybe, with a few more visits in fully crowded conditions will change my mind, but for now I'll take Epic. Even if I don't do a single attraction. I can understand why the ticket limitations are what they are. If I had an AP, and lived locally, I'd be there as often as I could trying all the restaurants, and hanging out in different places watching the fountain, and wishing it was dark enough to see the lights.
Anyway, Epic Universe Day 2 for us is tomorrow. This visit will be more exploration than attractions. Although, hoping for a Virtual Queue success story and a few more rides on Monsters Unchained, Hiccup's coaster, Mario Kart, and probably another go on Stardust Racers. Velocicoaster is the far winner for me as far as coaster wars go. Stardust Racers hurts me, the way the lap bar jerks on my abdomen. But we need to pay more attention to the music this time. Oh, when we were there on Thursday, they were installing netting on the queue after metal detection. I don't know if they will be adding more on that level, but that will obscure the sight lines from there. From the ride, it looked like there was still some landscaping work going on off-stage. A planter where the concrete edges were visible, and a tile walkway laid down, between onstage and a tent, but whatever bushes / trees were still missing. We thought it was pretty clear they are not yet done with all the landscaping. So again, I just can't myself worked up about sightlines right now. Let me see the park again in a year.
EpicUniverseUpdate
New Member
So what does everyone think Epic Universe will be like when it opens? Any ride predictions? I think the Mario Kart ride will be the most surprising "sleeper hit"!
Sir_Cliff
Well-Known Member
I was certainly around when DCA opened, and the Internet (myself included) was justifiably brutal in its criticisms. The park developed such a bad reputation that it became a joke on The Simpsons and they eventually spent hundreds of millions of dollars adding better theming to help turn it around. The build up to its opening was more people aghast at what they were seeing as Paradise Pier took shape and questioning things like the tortilla tour being billed as major attractions than excitement. So, on no level that example suggests people would give Disney a pass for lapses in theming. That Animal Kingdom opened massively under-built was also not remotely a controversial opinion, as it is not controversial to argue the park is still too light on attractions.
This is part of why I don't buy the above argument that Disney would somehow get away with all the issues regarding sight lines, etc. if Epic were a new Disney park. I know some people don't care about those things, but I have zero doubts we would be seeing photo essays and YouTube videos highlighting every place where backstage and outside the park were visible, etc. and holding that up against past principles of Disney theme park design.
Disgruntled Walt
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- No
I've heard from people who have ridden it at USH that it's disappointing. I was hoping that Donkey Kong would be good, but I've heard it's really rough.
Andrew25
Well-Known Member
Mario Kart is a great ride, just don't go in expecting a Test Track like experience. While I would have preferred a faster-paced attraction, it's still a solid ride.
Donkey Kong I have issues with. It's low capacity and very short, but some of the drops are surprisingly steeper than expected. There are some parts that are shaky, but I wouldn't call it rough or intense like a wooden coaster.
earlthesquirrellover23
Well-Known Member
BrianLo
Well-Known Member
I think there is mischaracterization going on here. Those parks were roundly considered bad and criticized heavily and still are retrospectively.
The conversation here is more like everyone at least thinks Epic is very good, with various rather annoying shortcomings/oversights/poor late decisions by execs. Mixed with a blowback that it is clearly wonderful and should be kept mostly immune to criticism.
That's where the kids gloves problem arises. It's ok to think something is very good and has some flaws, that's not actually a very bad review like DCA/WDSP received and rightly deserved. Just like when Epcot is characterized as nothing but horrible, which I think is an over-reaction in the opposite direction, sometimes from the same people.
BrianLo
Well-Known Member
As a resident biting critic, I too like Mario Kart for what it is. Yes, it's super annoying what it isn't, but it largely works. If they slapped Luigi's Mansion instead of Mario Kart on it, I really wouldn't have anything to say.
Mario Kart I feel like is 10 year ago Nintendo denying us what we really wanted, but still fun for what it is.
Unlike Gringott's, that constantly tricks you into thinking you are going to get a coaster that never really manifests.
wdwfan4ver
Well-Known Member
Corless has changed ever since he became a part of the Disney media again in 2024. What I'm getting at Corless is more of a Disney shill because doesn't really bash Disney like he used, but bashes Universal with no problem since he's not part of Universal studios media.
The influencer situation at Epic Universe is already getting out of control.
This past weekend, a full-grown adult with a cameraman cut in front of my child, who had been patiently waiting to play with one of the Donkey Kong Country bongos. No apology, no acknowledgment - just barreled through like they owned the place because they had a camera in their hand.
It took everything in me not to lose it right then and there.
This past weekend, a full-grown adult with a cameraman cut in front of my child, who had been patiently waiting to play with one of the Donkey Kong Country bongos. No apology, no acknowledgment - just barreled through like they owned the place because they had a camera in their hand.
It took everything in me not to lose it right then and there.
Agent H
Well-Known Member
You must have missed the epic muppet vision rant.
Influencers and content creators, for the most part, aren't media - they're tools for the public relations team.
Because of that, the standard of 'no consequences for free speech' that actual members of the press expect doesn’t apply here.
Criticize the product, off the brand - and you lose your access. Simple as that.
WoundedDreamer
Well-Known Member
I’ll throw this into the mix…
Many domestic theme park fans have never gone to a brand-new Disney or Universal park as an adult. Animal Kingdom is 27 years old. Islands of Adventure is just shy of 26. Going to a new theme park as an adult is exciting. Everything is fresh and coherent. I went to Shanghai Disneyland in its opening year, and it was an incredibly memorable experience—there’s something special about a new theme park!
In these opening months, it’s likely the excitement surrounding a whole new park will capture the public sentiment. I know how difficult it can be to review a single new attraction. Reviewing an entire theme park is another level of complexity! It will take months for the various bloggers, commentators, and public to fully understand Epic Universe. We'll see the discourse surrounding Epic Universe evolve in the months and years ahead. It will mature from the immediate shock of something new into a familiarity that permits sophisticated critiques.
I'm not worried that Orlando theme park fans are going to let Universal get away with bad theme park design. In fact, Epic Universe is going to put pressure on Universal to address issues with their other two parks. They've just raised the bar. Audience expectations are going to be raised with them. While Epic Universe is not perfect, it does lots of things really well. It was an enormous investment that deserves praise. Universal Creative and Comcast can take their victory lap over the next few months, but then people will get back to nitpicking. It's what the internet does!
I abhor giving reviews about a park that I've never stepped in, but here are a few quick impressions. Concerns about sightlines seem entirely valid. Universal Creative can be oddly careless with them. I also think Celestial Park seems kind weak—that's partially because Epic Universe's story device is kind of weak too. I think the story is roughly "you can explore a universe filled with exciting worlds using the portals of the gods and they're Greek gods just because!" Epic Universe's structure reminds me of the Magician's Nephew, choose your portal and go to a different world! One of the big problems with this concept is that there's no explanation as to why certain worlds are present while others are excluded. Why are the Greek gods sending you to see Donkey Kong? Maybe that's one of the labors of Hercules I missed! There's really no obvious organizing principle behind the park's constitution.
Still, I've been very impressed by much of what I'm seeing. That Paris section looks fantastic! The How to Train Your Dragon land looks superb. I'm intrigued by the Nintendo land, it seems like I could either love it or hate it. TBD. There's a reason people are so excited about this park! Like I said, I'm in no position to review the park. That's just my rough assessment based on watching some videos and seeing some pictures.
Cheers!
Many domestic theme park fans have never gone to a brand-new Disney or Universal park as an adult. Animal Kingdom is 27 years old. Islands of Adventure is just shy of 26. Going to a new theme park as an adult is exciting. Everything is fresh and coherent. I went to Shanghai Disneyland in its opening year, and it was an incredibly memorable experience—there’s something special about a new theme park!
In these opening months, it’s likely the excitement surrounding a whole new park will capture the public sentiment. I know how difficult it can be to review a single new attraction. Reviewing an entire theme park is another level of complexity! It will take months for the various bloggers, commentators, and public to fully understand Epic Universe. We'll see the discourse surrounding Epic Universe evolve in the months and years ahead. It will mature from the immediate shock of something new into a familiarity that permits sophisticated critiques.
I'm not worried that Orlando theme park fans are going to let Universal get away with bad theme park design. In fact, Epic Universe is going to put pressure on Universal to address issues with their other two parks. They've just raised the bar. Audience expectations are going to be raised with them. While Epic Universe is not perfect, it does lots of things really well. It was an enormous investment that deserves praise. Universal Creative and Comcast can take their victory lap over the next few months, but then people will get back to nitpicking. It's what the internet does!
I abhor giving reviews about a park that I've never stepped in, but here are a few quick impressions. Concerns about sightlines seem entirely valid. Universal Creative can be oddly careless with them. I also think Celestial Park seems kind weak—that's partially because Epic Universe's story device is kind of weak too. I think the story is roughly "you can explore a universe filled with exciting worlds using the portals of the gods and they're Greek gods just because!" Epic Universe's structure reminds me of the Magician's Nephew, choose your portal and go to a different world! One of the big problems with this concept is that there's no explanation as to why certain worlds are present while others are excluded. Why are the Greek gods sending you to see Donkey Kong? Maybe that's one of the labors of Hercules I missed! There's really no obvious organizing principle behind the park's constitution.
Still, I've been very impressed by much of what I'm seeing. That Paris section looks fantastic! The How to Train Your Dragon land looks superb. I'm intrigued by the Nintendo land, it seems like I could either love it or hate it. TBD. There's a reason people are so excited about this park! Like I said, I'm in no position to review the park. That's just my rough assessment based on watching some videos and seeing some pictures.
Cheers!
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UNCgolf
Well-Known Member
Mario Kart is a better ride without the AR goggles -- it's still a strange fit for Mario Kart, but the sets etc. are good. The AR aspects are just distracting and make the experience worse.