Lightning Lane Premier Pass

[Disstevefan1]

Can't or won't?

I have no idea, that's why I said for whatever reason.

And on these boards you will get flamed if you suggest Disney is purposely posting longer standby times in order to sell LLs so I will not do that.

 

[Eric Graham]

So this is a bit contradictory…

i gather not very crowded is a relative term for each person.

 

[Purduevian]

I have no idea, that's why I said for whatever reason.

And on these boards you will get flamed if you suggest Disney is purposely posting longer standby times in order to sell LLs so I will not do that.

I don't think anyone would disagrees that
1) Disney artificially inflates wait times
2) This has the benefit of selling more LLs

However, I did find an interesting post from 23 years ago wondering if Disney was inflating standby times to get more people to use the new free legacy fastpass system! Also respect to ToTBellHop for being active on these forums for so long.

I also noticed that disney was inflating their stand by time waits (like, for many of the rides, they would say 40 minutes and the wait would end up being like 20, but they never undershot the times. Perhaps a way to get more people to get FastPasses?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

i gather not very crowded is a relative term for each person.

Yes…but it’s not an “opinion” based thing

When one spends multiple visits a year watching pathway flow and the table counts in eateries….NOT waiting for mine train…you can get a sense of what is crowded and what is not.

Ok…that is an opinion…but one that has several decades under its belt.

If only we had some hard gate numbers…which they guard like Fort Knox and love the ambiguity of them…it would be very telling.

This premiere things feeds 2 instincts: it serves as a trophy and grooms the crowd to look past their business struggles at the gate. Especially the “sell out!” Stuff. That is pointless without a number.

Which isn’t unheard of…there was a number for E-ride nights…so it is possible…

So what is being hidden?

 

[Disstevefan1]

Yes…but it’s not an “opinion” based thing

When one spends multiple visits a year watching pathway flow and the table counts in eateries….NOT waiting for mine train…you can get a sense of what is crowded and what is not.

Ok…that is an opinion…but one that has several decades under its belt.

If only we had some hard gate numbers…which they guard like Fort Knox and love the ambiguity of them…it would be very telling.

This premiere things feeds 2 instincts: it serves as a trophy and grooms the crowd to look past their business struggles at the gate. Especially the “sell out!” Stuff. That is pointless without a number.

Which isn’t unheard of…there was a number for E-ride nights…so it is possible…

So what is being hidden?

In my opinion, WDW has managed to keep wait times high while serving less guests.

Not good.

 

[ToTBellHop]

I don't think anyone would disagrees that
1) Disney artificially inflates wait times
2) This has the benefit of selling more LLs

However, I did find an interesting post from 23 years ago wondering if Disney was inflating standby times to get more people to use the new free legacy fastpass system! Also respect to ToTBellHop for being active on these forums for so long.

God I’m old.

 

[Agent H]

God I’m old.

You’re only as old as you feel.

 

[JAN J]

Yes…but it’s not an “opinion” based thing

When one spends multiple visits a year watching pathway flow and the table counts in eateries….NOT waiting for mine train…you can get a sense of what is crowded and what is not.

Ok…that is an opinion…but one that has several decades under its belt.

If only we had some hard gate numbers…which they guard like Fort Knox and love the ambiguity of them…it would be very telling.

This premiere things feeds 2 instincts: it serves as a trophy and grooms the crowd to look past their business struggles at the gate. Especially the “sell out!” Stuff. That is pointless without a number.

Which isn’t unheard of…there was a number for E-ride nights…so it is possible…

So what is being hidden?

Do you think it's reasonable to assume that the number of Premier Passes may actually be very low, and eventually they will increase supply until they get to a point where sales are at a good point (say around 95% of availability) but would always have a few more for sporadic surges?

Or are these just selling like hot cakes and eventually sales will go down because right now it's a novelty?

Or maybe not go down at all because the product is that good (though highly unachievable for most families specially for multiple days)?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Do you think it's reasonable to assume that the number of Premier Passes may actually be very low, and eventually they will increase supply until they get to a point where sales are at a good point (say around 95% of availability) but would always have a few more for sporadic surges?

Or are these just selling like hot cakes and eventually sales will go down because right now it's a novelty?

Or maybe not go down at all because the product is that good (though highly unachievable for most families specially for multiple days)?

I’d say the former

A very low number…and they await their very large; unpaid legion of bloggers, podders, and college program holdovers to push it on social media platforms…which then infects travel agents and print (whats left of it) to make it unofficially “necessary” and then they expect unlimited dough straight from the blue

Here’s the problem: they’re losing people based on the prices of the more basic things already…so the gimmicks wont work like it may have 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago (when they didn’t pull such stunts)…so there’s a great deal of fools gold here.

Watch what the management says:

“We’re up next year for a “very strong” summer”
Fast forward: “here’s a 40% Discount…hide the fact we’re actually down like 9%”

“We absolutely need to fix our parkcrowding!!”
…or just pivot and build cruise ships asap…call out the navy!!

And the best: lay the ground work to cut your phoney investment number hinting at “market instability”…which you had no intention of spending in the first place

 

[Purduevian]

God I’m old.

Sorry to drag up a post from 23 years ago... it was the oldest post I could find on the forums that mentioned Disney purposely inflating wait times. Just found it interesting it's been a topic for that long.

 

[JAN J]

I’d say the former

A very low number…and they await their very large; unpaid legion of bloggers, podders, and college program holdovers to push it on social media platforms…which then infects travel agents and print (whats left of it) to make it unofficially “necessary” and then they expect unlimited dough straight from the blue

Here’s the problem: they’re losing people based on the prices of the more basic things already…so the gimmicks wont work like it may have 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago (when they didn’t pull such stunts)…so there’s a great deal of fools gold here.

Watch what the management says:

“We’re up next year for a “very strong” summer”
Fast forward: “here’s a 40% Discount…hide the fact we’re actually down like 9%”

“We absolutely need to fix our parkcrowding!!”
…or just pivot and build cruise ships asap…call out the navy!!

And the best: lay the ground work to cut your phoney investment number hinting at “market instability”…which you had no intention of spending in the first place

Agree with that. Also the fact that MPLL isn't selling out os one reflection on how budget constraints are reaching a breaking point for many families.

I don't have any problems with people that pay for Premium access having a faster moving line than mine. What upsets me is when they run on diminished capacity to artificially inflate wait times and save a few bucks on staffing and utilities. Tickets are pretty expensive already and families pay quite a premium to be there in the first place.

 

[JD80]

Sorry to drag up a post from 23 years ago... it was the oldest post I could find on the forums that mentioned Disney purposely inflating wait times. Just found it interesting it's been a topic for that long.

It'll be a topic whenever you have lines and wait times. You can go back 20-30 years and find internet polls asking if Disney is worth the money.

 

[Tigger&Pooh]

Also the fact that MPLL isn't selling out os one reflection on how budget constraints are reaching a breaking point for many families.

But has LLMP ever "sold out?" It seems to me that LLMP can still be available to purchase but all the "good" attractions/times are gone. That's not officially "sold out" but essentially the same thing because people stop purchasing it, not because of price but because of attraction availability.

 

[Tigger&Pooh]

It'll be a topic whenever you have lines and wait times. You can go back 20-30 years and find internet polls asking if Disney is worth the money.

An Internet poll 30 years ago? If such a thing existed it wouldn't have very many respondents so accuracy of any such poll is questionable.

But you've noted a different question entirely. PP was specifically looking to see how far back there was question/discussion about accuracy of the wait times. Not just whether a trip to Disney is worth the cost. Sure "worth" has always been a question because Disney has always been expensive, at least for some.

 

[JD80]

An Internet poll 30 years ago? If such a thing existed it wouldn't have very many respondents so accuracy of any such poll is questionable.

But you've noted a different question entirely. PP was specifically looking to see how far back there was question/discussion about accuracy of the wait times. Not just whether a trip to Disney is worth the cost. Sure "worth" has always been a question because Disney has always been expensive, at least for some.

I'm just saying, these questions have always been asked and will always be asked when humans are asked to wait for things and pay for things.

 

[bmr1591]

Agree with that. Also the fact that MPLL isn't selling out os one reflection on how budget constraints are reaching a breaking point for many families.

I don't have any problems with people that pay for Premium access having a faster moving line than mine. What upsets me is when they run on diminished capacity to artificially inflate wait times and save a few bucks on staffing and utilities. Tickets are pretty expensive already and families pay quite a premium to be there in the first place.

Because MP sucks. I'm certain there are people who love to have things planned seven days ahead, but my family will never purchase it because I'm not promised to get any decent rides. I've read so many stories of people purchasing LLMP and finding every single decent attraction already sold out. Why would someone pay $120 for a family of 4 to go ride Barnstormer, Dumbo, and Little Mermaid? For all the crap Genie+ received, I'd take it over MP in a heartbeat. If you knew the system, you could get a ton of value out of it and ride all that you wanted to. I can't get any real value out of MP.

With that said, I am well aware that my family's success with Genie+ came at the expense of others' failures.

 

[JD80]

Because MP sucks. I'm certain there are people who love to have things planned seven days ahead, but my family will never purchase it because I'm not promised to get any decent rides. I've read so many stories of people purchasing LLMP and finding every single decent attraction already sold out. Why would someone pay $120 for a family of 4 to go ride Barnstormer, Dumbo, and Little Mermaid? For all the crap Genie+ received, I'd take it over MP in a heartbeat. If you knew the system, you could get a ton of value out of it and ride all that you wanted to. I can't get any real value out of MP.

With that said, I am well aware that my family's success with Genie+ came at the expense of others' failures.

Before you pay you know exactly what you're getting. So if you can't get the rides you want, don't pay.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Because MP sucks. I'm certain there are people who love to have things planned seven days ahead, but my family will never purchase it because I'm not promised to get any decent rides. I've read so many stories of people purchasing LLMP and finding every single decent attraction already sold out. Why would someone pay $120 for a family of 4 to go ride Barnstormer, Dumbo, and Little Mermaid? For all the crap Genie+ received, I'd take it over MP in a heartbeat. If you knew the system, you could get a ton of value out of it and ride all that you wanted to. I can't get any real value out of MP.

With that said, I am well aware that my family's success with Genie+ came at the expense of others' failures.

huh? This is incorrect.

With LLMP, you pick 3 rides/passes BEFORE you pay for it, not the other way around. You don't know what you will get beyond those 3, but you do know exactly what and when your first 3 passes are.

Mind, for offsite guests or those who book it late, the options are not always great. Even when staying onsite, and booking at 7am, I have not been particularly impressed with what I was offered.

And one's options quickly degrade the more you try to swap/change the passes. The best offering is usually the times you are initially offered. After buying them, I have been able to move some passes ahead by 5-10minutes. Rarely have I been able to improve the return times more than that.

I do find it slightly ironic that what you are saying about LLMP is what many people said about G+. As crappy as G+ was, IMO, it was still better than LLMP when I consider how many passes I was able to book.

Mind, I agree with you that LLMP sucks. One of the many ways it sucks is that if you know you will miss a pass, you often have zero ability to modify the time. They do allow, I think, a 2 hour grace period, but that is only partially useful.

 

[JAN J]

But has LLMP ever "sold out?" It seems to me that LLMP can still be available to purchase but all the "good" attractions/times are gone. That's not officially "sold out" but essentially the same thing because people stop purchasing it, not because of price but because of attraction availability.

Makes sense. And thanks for correcting the acronym!

 

[nickys]

One of the many ways it sucks is that if you know you will miss a pass, you often have zero ability to modify the time

How so?

On the day you can modify it, either the time or the ride & time.

And once you’ve tapped out not one then you have even more choice.