Universal Epic Universe (South Expansion Complex) - Now Open!

[celluloid]

A ton. But that’s nothing new. I’ve been hearing stuff like that since 2010 (usually bc of lower crowds and price). But the bread and butter isn’t in winning converts — it’s winning people who were never interested in Disney or Universal in the first place. That’s what made WWoHP so brilliant.

Interestingly I’ve encountered a few people planning Disney/Epic vacations. One of them I’ve tried to convince to come to IoA to no avail. That’s almost certainly what Universal doesn’t want.

While they may not have one over everyone completely yet, them choosing EPIC over day 2, 3 or 4 cost with auxiliary spending lost is something Disney does not want.

 

[BrianLo]

I've also watched a few videos and was in two minds about whether to comment as I think I've been perhaps too much on the negative side in this thread and more than a little repetitive.

My overriding view, though, was confusion about why they seem to go so close toward Disney-level theming and immersion as though that's what they're aiming for, even in the portal concept, but then cut corners all over the place such that it doesn't quite get there. For example, Darkmoor has a lot that looks great, but why build a plain steel rollercoaster surrounded by nets and plain metal fences in the middle of it all? Or why not go all in on the portal concept and build up the berm so that the hotel tower is not looming behind the graveyard inside the entrance?

You've already covered all the many things in Isle of Berk where you think "couldn't they have just...?" In general, why invest so much into what could be a very cool "portal" concept without then putting in the effort to make them work beyond SNW and Wizarding Paris?

At the risk of being repetitive, after watching some videos, Celestial Park is still the area where I am the most puzzled by the excitement it seems to inspire from some. To me, it looks very much like it could be a new hotel, retail, and dining complex in Las Vegas or a Disney Springs-style venture. It is not bad, per se, but in terms of themed entertainment it seems more on a Disney Springs level than a DisneySea level. On that note, it kind of makes sense when people suggest it will become a park where locals would hang out after work and maybe get dinner or a few drinks as it looks like a venue designed for that in a touristy city.

Well, I think I've said too much and been too negative yet again! I am honestly glad that people are finding it lives up to their expectations, though, and just want to reassure you that I am also very negative about a lot of things current Disney is doing, too!

I think there’s for whatever reason an executive culture of not seeing the artistry in their product. For some reason WDI often seem to have a longer leash to advocate against the corners. Maybe it’s because some of them historically have been so long in their positions that they have a bit more power.

When we don’t see it is when there are collaborations (Nintendo, WB on Potter), which suggests to me it seems to be a higher up culture problem. Because a berm really wasn’t breaking the bank, but yet it was.

 

[DarkMetroid567]

While they may not have one over everyone completely yet, them choosing EPIC over day 2, 3 or 4 cost with auxiliary spending lost is something Disney does not want.

Definitely. I just think of the broader implications for both resorts. It makes me wonder if there’s a finite audience for the Orlando resorts and if that’s why Disney has emphasized DCL.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Because a berm really wasn’t breaking the bank, but yet it was.

The park is full of contradictions.

The Monsters steakhouse has beautifully crafted custom chairs for you to sit on, and then you walk outside and see CotW.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Disney spent a lot of money on Euro Disneyland, but the team behind it knew how to make the most of their money

They budgeted for a roof over Main Street. We ended up with arcades because that was actually cheaper and the extra money was spent on making the shops themselves nicer.

They budgeted for a castle as big as the one in Florida, but realized a smaller one would give more money for the inside.

Not needing to have a motor and CM in every boat meant Storybookland could have an actual scene inside the cave.

It's knowing how to maximize the potential of a budget, which WDI and Universal Creative now seem to struggle with. They blow a lot of money on frills, and forget the big picture stuff like sightlines, staging and capacity.

 

[BrianLo]

I’ve logged this before, but in no universe will USO and IOA be ‘busier’ post-Epic. That’s not how new gates work.

A major portion of crowds will be from redistribution and will remain that way for 5-10 years.

To suggest they will be actually sets a silly benchmark of success that is both impossible and not internally what they’d ever expect.

They want resort wide attendance to hit 125-130% of their prior attendance records and slowly reach 150% approaching year 10. The bigger trouble is they might barely hit 115% since the starting line pulled so far back the last two years.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Also, Monsters steakhouse is another cafeteria that looks like a cafeteria.

Not as bad as some of Disney's recent stuff, but still...

They're designed for capacity and efficiently getting people in and out with as few obstructions as possible, with leads to big, bright flat empty rooms and no sense of intimacy or variation in the space as far as scale, lighting and organization.

 

[BrianLo]

Also, Monsters steakhouse is another cafeteria that looks like a cafeteria.

Not as bad as some of Disney's recent stuff, but still...

I’m not looking at any photos, in pure commentary only mode. But I assume you are referencing Connections rather than Docking Bay 7 or the Pandora Cantina? But I guess those are also supposed to be cafeteria’s.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

It’s exterior projection mapping.

This is using the technology Universal patented.

It's actually projection mapping on Victoria's face

Then i'm at a loss, because it doesn't really look like any face projection i've ever seen. They somehow got exterior projection to sync up seemingly perfectly with her dynamic and rapid head movement. It also reacts to the lighting and shadow changes of the surrounding scenery. Maybe it doesn't look quite the same in person (in my experience, projections can actually vary from better than in person to much worse depending on the camera used to record it) but in the videos i've seen it looks orders of magnitude better and more convincing than the best of what Disney has accomplished for projection tech.

 

[James Alucobond]

I’m not looking at any photos, in pure commentary only mode. But I assume you are referencing Connections rather than Docking Bay 7 or the Pandora Cantina? But I guess those are also supposed to be cafeteria’s.

My mind always goes to Be Our Guest for this.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Unfortunately it is, but there's nothing they can do about it. I've been saying since October that their ticketing strategy is not only confusing, but strict when it comes to flexibility for guests. It seems like they're sticking to their plan, but it's an awful one IMO.


I have the same thoughts. I was there this past week and I don't think there's enough shade (they added a lot of umbrellas, but it's very hot, especially in SNW). I know that is a result of construction still occuring, but felt bad for the TMs working the SNW games as they were out in the sun all day.

Regarding capacity, I agree that the park will desperately need it sooner than later. Initial capacity estimates:

• Stardust - 2,400 (at a 60-sec interval, they are aiming for 50-sec intervals)
• Constellation Carousel - 720
• Wing Gliders - 1,440
• Dragon Racer's Rally - 360
• Fyre Drill - 720 (could be lower or higher pending # of boats)
• Viking Training Camp - n/a
• Battle at the Ministry - 1,700
• Curse of the Werewolf - 1,100
• Monsters Unchained - 2,057 (7-sec intervals)
• Yoshi's Adventure - 1,200
• Mario Kart - 1,700
• Donkey Kart: Mine Cart Madness - 1,200

Total Epic Ride Capacity: ~14,600
Current DAK Ride Capacity: ~12,300 (includes ITTAB & Dinosaur, but not Triceratop Spin- with Tropical Americas it'll increase to ~14,400) *Excluding walkthrough exhibits*
IOA Capacity: ~20,400
USF Capacity: ~16,000

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This is based off my Wait-Time model I continue to update based on Epic preview information and latest capacity updates.
*Battle at the Ministry will be very difficult to gauge initially

These numbers are low. Universal Studios Florida is really low.

 

[sedati]

Then i'm at a loss, because it doesn't really look like any face projection i've ever seen. They somehow got exterior projection to sync up seemingly perfectly with her dynamic and rapid head movement. It also reacts to the lighting and shadow changes of the surrounding scenery. Maybe it doesn't look quite the same in person (in my experience, projections can actually vary from better than in person to much worse depending on the camera used to record it) but in the videos i've seen it looks orders of magnitude better and more convincing than the best of what Disney has accomplished for projection tech.

Isn’t that how Lightning McQuuen talks? A projection mapped mouth tracking onto a moving animatronic.

 

[Andrew25]

Definitely. I just think of the broader implications for both resorts. It makes me wonder if there’s a finite audience for the Orlando resorts and if that’s why Disney has emphasized DCL.

Orlando hit a price ceiling, been saying for years. They took advantage of the post-Covid boom are trying to reel prices back.

Also, Monsters steakhouse is another cafeteria that looks like a cafeteria.

Not as bad as some of Disney's recent stuff, but still...

They're designed for capacity and efficiently getting people in and out with as few obstructions as possible, with leads to big, bright flat empty rooms and no sense of intimacy or variation in the space as far as scale, lighting and organization.

I'm sorry... are we looking at the same place? I ate there last week and the environment is one of the best quick service locations in Orlando for atmosphere. I eat QSR and TSR throughout the Orlando parks on a weekly basis and Das Stakehaus is a top contender.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Isn’t that how Lightning McQuuen talks? A projection mapped mouth tracking onto a moving animatronic.

Lightning and Sally at RSR I think probably uses exterior projection for the mouths (eyes I think are internal). There are fixtures that jut up from the floor that I assume house projectors. But they don't move around nearly as much as the AA for Victoria, and the bumper surface it's projected onto is very large and allows for slight imperfection to the syncing. A smaller more detailed and more realistic human face is a much different and more difficult to use external projection on when there's a lot of motion involved.

The Lightning animatronic at DHS' stage show I believe was internally projected. It can move around much more than the RSR one, even spin completely around to face the screen behind him. The lighting conditions of this show are also much more varied and can get rather bright, and they even deploy fog effects in front of the figure. All things which would either massively wash out or obscure an external projection. It's clearer than the mouth projections at RSR as well, but there's also a slightly more visible seam around the edges (it's even more visible when the attraction would break down and stop during the show). Credit where credit is due, the DHS one is among the best face projection effects they've had on a moving figure. But it's still nowhere close to as insane as Victoria's if she really is face projected.

That said, how much of her face is projected? The entire thing, including all features and facial twitches? Or is it just mouth or eye movement?

 

[Stripes]

Then i'm at a loss, because it doesn't really look like any face projection i've ever seen. They somehow got exterior projection to sync up seemingly perfectly with her dynamic and rapid head movement. It also reacts to the lighting and shadow changes of the surrounding scenery. Maybe it doesn't look quite the same in person (in my experience, projections can actually vary from better than in person to much worse depending on the camera used to record it) but in the videos i've seen it looks orders of magnitude better and more convincing than the best of what Disney has accomplished for projection tech.

The idea behind the external projection mapping was to reduce the seam and glow you get with internal projection mapping.

Her head movement is actually not very rapid but the technology has advanced in recent years to allow for this kind of thing.

Bear in mind, Rise of the Resistance is already 5+ years old. Technology moves very quickly.

Check out the Walt AA when it debuts at Disneyland.

 

[Stripes]

These numbers are low. Universal Studios Florida is really low.

I was in line at MCO TSA 2 days ago. Overheard someone say USF was EMPTY. They said it was crazy and shocking how barren and empty the park was.

 

[DarkMetroid567]

I of course need to reserve judgment but I have not liked Victoria’s face at all so far. It seems to have the flatness of the new bride at DL Haunted Mansion. I think I’ll inevitably always dislike the projections.

 

[Tom Morrow]

I’ve seen Victoria’s face in person and I did not realize it was a projection. It’s well done.

 

[lentesta]

Hearing something kinda interesting, but not realistic given how early this is in its lifespan.
Are any of our actual insiders hearing any mumblings about the positive feedback MU is receiving putting Mummy in Hollywood on the chopping block?

I'm not buying this until it's been open to the general public, and is a hit for at least a year.
Also, why would USH invest in a large FF coaster, only to replace its existing coaster, regressing back to just a one coaster park?

I've not heard anything about this. My understanding is the next thing after the FF coaster replacing RRR is a Back to the Future re-do of the FF area. I could be wrong.

 

[Centauri Space Station]

But not the ride

So you admit the attraction wowed you at points?