runDisney pares back complimentary full-day ticket to half-day for volunteers

[Kamikaze]

Chapek left with not even close to what Ovitz left when working for Eisner. Ovitz left and got $140M exit package more than 20 years ago and Chapek got a paltry $23M.

Fact, which is why complaining about what Chapek got is misguided.

 

[Kamikaze]

just trying to recap (from my eyes) ideas I have seen in this thread.

Let's call Disney the main sponsor of the race. Know we can replace Disney w/ the City of Boston as the role is the same when it comes to a marathon. The sponsor gets their take based on visitor spend due to folks visiting because of the race.

Volunteers are used by some 501c that runs marathons. at this point, I assume marathons are mush like PGA stops -- tons of volunteers are used, some group(s) get money given to their ORG.

These volunteers should not (in my opinion) offer their time in anticipation of some swag to be given to them. (should Boston give them the keys to the city?).

Now 501 c's and volunteerism carry tax implications. What is the point that turns swag into compensation? I have not seen that answered, so I will assume this is just as possible as 'Disney is being cheap' so I shall look at it another way. Let's say I earn $15 an hour. I volunteer 8 hrs to run Disney. If I were working, I would've earned $120 (pre tax). This is much cheaper than what I can get a day ticket for, so is a full day ticket compensation? It is a better deal for me to 'volunteer' than it is for me to work!

Now, I will toss out another conspiracy theory. Disney's new date specific ticketing isn't ready for 'exceptions'.

How would these folks make a park reservation?
Is it a hopper?
What date/park are they starting at?

heck, just let them in at 1PM to any park on any day to avoid it all.

Anyhoo, my thoughts are on the side of: the race and Disney are different. The race is using these volunteers. (my surprise on 'disney and volunteers came some years back when I talked to someone in the 501st, I mean these folks marched in a parade.)

I know nothing of the 'racing circuit' nor what other restriction the old ticket was valued at, but last time I was at the parks, a one day /w hopping option was $234. That might not cost Disney anything, but that could be some real compensation for some.

One thing here: city marathons are not run by the respective city (I can't think of a single race where its actually run by the city itself), there are private entities that actually manage the races, and that entity has to deal with the city for road closures, permits, etc. In the specific case of Boston, less than 10% of the race is actually in the city of Boston itself.

 

[larryz]

“Appreciation Gifts” for volunteers is always a hot topic amongst our staff. There are several, often conflicting federal guidance documents on the matter. Most allow a “nominal” or de minimis compensation, but don’t give an exact definition. I’m not a lawyer nor compensation expert, but our legal and finance folks tell me our yearly limit is $200. Anything above that and we 1099 the volunteers as contractors, and they have to pay tax on the total amount of any gifts received. And this is a cumulative yearly limit. Not sure this would apply here, but more data for the pile.

I didn't find the IRS guidance all that confusing. $200 is low, considering the IRS doesn't require 1099s until you hit the $600 mark. As long as you don't give them cash or negotiable items, and keep the gifts in the low FMV-zone, there's no reporting requirement. A $10 t-shirt and free snacks along with a digital participation certificate certainly won't break that limitation.

A time limited ticket -- after 1300 at a Disney park -- would likely value somewhere around $100 these days... and you could argue that the value could fluctuate significantly depending on which park you used the ticket in (based on hours of operation/rides available/time of year). Throw in a $10 shirt, free snacks and a digital certificate -- you're still well under the $600 limit, and nobody could reasonably argue the volunteers would be able to convert any of those items to cash payouts, not even the time-limited park admission ticket.

 

[larryz]

The issue is Disney cut the gifted ticket from a full day ticket to a half day ticket. Folks conflate this with the folks are volunteers.
This was a BAD SHOW for Disney in my opinion.

In which park is a 1:00 pm entry just a "half day"? For the week of January 16th, MK is open 9 to 10. Epcot 9 to 9. DHS 8:30 to 9. AK 9 to 7.

 

[Disstevefan1]

In which park is a 1:00 pm entry just a "half day"? For the week of January 16th, MK is open 9 to 10. Epcot 9 to 9. DHS 8:30 to 9. AK 9 to 7.

Way to deflect

 

[Disstevefan1]

Let’s recap what we have learned in this thread.

• Folks are really passionate about this subject.
• Volunteers voluntarily work for free and are technically due no compensation at all.
• Volunteers are great.
• These races events cannot exist without the great volunteers.
• No matter how rich the company hosting the event is, volunteers are necessary.
• Did I say volunteers are great?
• Technically, the new gifted ticket is NOT a HALF day ticket even though the thread title says that.
• Disney is perfectly justified in what they did.
• Anyone who questions what Disney did is a Disney hater.
• This thread has the potential to grow to be longer than the Coronavirus thread.

 

[LittleBuford]

In which park is a 1:00 pm entry just a "half day"? For the week of January 16th, MK is open 9 to 10. Epcot 9 to 9. DHS 8:30 to 9. AK 9 to 7.

That makes it even more egregious that Disney is giving them a lesser ticket. All for the sake of a few hours?

 

[LittleBuford]

Let’s recap what we have learned in this thread.

• Folks are really passionate about this subject
• Volunteers voluntarily work for free and are technically due no compensation at all.
• Volunteers are great.
• These races events cannot exist without the great volunteers.
• No matter how rich the company hosting the event is, volunteers are necessary.
• Did I say volunteers are great.
• Technically, the new gifted ticket is NOT a HALF day ticket even though the thread title says that.
• Disney is perfectly justified in what they did.
• Anyone who questions what Disney did is a Disney hater.
• This thread has the potential to grow to be longer than the Coronavirus thread.

I think you’re really mischaracterising the conversation. With a few notable exceptions, everyone here agrees that Disney was wrong to downgrade the ticket it gives the volunteers. The rest is really tangential to the topic.

 

[larryz]

Way to deflect

Looking at the FACTS dispels the fiction that Disney somehow cut the tickets in half. I've got no sympathy for whiners who complain they're only getting 7-9 hours free admission to a WDW park for volunteering at a runDisney event.

True volunteers don't do it for the bennies -- they do it out of altruism. But I think that's been said several times and is recognized and accepted by everyone except the mercenary whiners who expect, nay, DEMAND a full-day ticket, or they just aren't going to volunteer at rD events.

Let’s recap what we have learned in this thread.

• Folks are really passionate about this subject. == TRUE
• Volunteers voluntarily work for free and are technically due no compensation at all. == TRUE
• Volunteers are great. == TRUE
• These races events cannot exist without the great volunteers. == TRUE
• No matter how rich the company hosting the event is, volunteers are necessary. == TRUE
• Did I say volunteers are great? == YES
• Technically, the new gifted ticket is NOT a HALF day ticket even though the thread title says that. == TRUE
• Disney is perfectly justified in what they did. == TRUE
• Anyone who questions what Disney did is a Disney hater. == I DON'T REMEMBER ANYONE SAYING THAT
• This thread has the potential to grow to be longer than the Coronavirus thread. == NOT LIKELY

 

[Disstevefan1]

I think you’re really mischaracterising the conversation. With a few notable exceptions, everyone here agrees that Disney was wrong to downgrade the ticket it gives the volunteers. The rest is really tangential to the topic.

I think you are mischaracterising my post.

I was just listing the points brought up in this thread.

I totally agree, the main point is Disney was wrong to downgrade the ticket and the rest is tangential to the topic

 

[celluloid]

His lips are sealed at this time. Mine would be too if I walked away with a $23M severance package.

Not going to lie, as blah as he is, and Iger as well, I would rather read Chapek's book or skim it at least at this point.

 

[larryz]

I totally agree, the main point is Disney was wrong to downgrade the ticket and the rest is tangential to the topic

"Wrong"???

Well, where I volunteer, the volunteers don't get to tell the sponsors what benefits and/or freebies to offer them.

We're lucky to get race-specific t-shirts, snacks and water.

We're even luckier to get to help runners have a smoother, hassle-free race experience.

I guess the bottom line is -- if that's not enough, then go sell your services somewhere else.

What's that? Am I some kind of chairborne internet expert just typing through my butt cheeks?

I believe I have enough experience to speak credibly about this -- I've served in hydration stations, bib-pick-up, merchandise sales store, medal unpacking, t-shirt folding, medal/t-shirt post-race delivery and runner problem resolution positions supporting a major military marathon/half/10-k/5-k/kid's 1-k for each of the past 15 years. Meanwhile, I've also served just over 4,000 hours helping visitors find, enjoy and understand exhibits in a major military museum. I also was lucky enough to volunteer at a PGA event several years ago. Total benefits received: 16 t-shirts, one free polo shirt (I had to buy the other 4), about 24 granola bars, a hot dog and a bag of chips, a few cups of Gatorade (mainly to check the mix strength), several hundred bottles of water, discounts in food venues and the museum gift shop, and 6 banquet-style appreciation meals.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Races like this rely on volunteers across the country. ITs not a WDW thing it is a race thing.

This is where the logic breaks down.

Most races aren't hosted by an entity that makes a fortune off of the runners. Disney doesn't host these races because they think running is super kewl and they want to encourage the activity and yada yada. They do it to sell $200 theme park tickets and $600 hotel rooms and $100 sweatshirts during a time of year that would normally be completely dead.

I don't care what the New York Marathon or Boston Marathon or anyone else do because the cities of New York and Boston are not wholly owned subsidiaries of a multinational media conglomerate. The New York Road Runners do not own every hotel on the island of Manhattan. The Boston Athletic Association doesn't make money when you buy tickets to a Red Sox game.

 

[King Panda 77]

This is where the logic breaks down.

Most races aren't hosted by an entity that makes a fortune off of the runners. Disney doesn't host these races because they think running is super kewl and they want to encourage the activity and yada yada. They do it to sell $200 theme park tickets and $600 hotel rooms and $100 sweatshirts during a time of year that would normally be completely dead.

I don't care what the New York Marathon or Boston Marathon or anyone else do because the cities of New York and Boston are not wholly owned subsidiaries of a multinational media conglomerate. The New York Road Runners do not own every hotel on the island of Manhattan. The Boston Athletic Association doesn't make money when you buy tickets to a Red Sox game.

But the city of Boston does benefit as a whole due to the influx of runners / volunteers etc etc. During a marathon weekend. The city makes buck on these events same as Disney does.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

But the city of Boston does benefit as a whole due to the influx of runners / volunteers etc etc. During a marathon weekend. The city makes buck on these events same as Disney does.

No they absolutely do not.

Entities within the city make money. If runners stay at a Hilton, Hilton makes money. But Hilton isn't the one hosting the race and Hilton doesn't own every hotel and restaurant in the city where the runners have no choice but to stay in a Hilton and eat every meal with Hilton.

Sure, the city ostensibly collects some tax revenue and that sort of thing, but that's offset by the increased need for police, fire, public works, etc. Also, cities can't "make buck" because they're a city. Every dollar they bring in has to be spent on public services either now or in the future.

 

[larryz]

No they absolutely do not.

Entities within the city make money. If runners stay at a Hilton, Hilton makes money. But Hilton isn't the one hosting the race and Hilton doesn't own every hotel and restaurant in the city where the runners have no choice but to stay in a Hilton and eat every meal with Hilton.

Sure, the city ostensibly collects some tax revenue and that sort of thing, but that's offset by the increased need for police, fire, public works, etc. Also, cities can't "make buck" because they're a city. Every dollar they bring in has to be spent on public services either now or in the future.

The city also gets immeasurably more publicity because of the event, driving even more visitors, thereby further increasing visitor taxation events.

And they need every dollar they can find to pay public union employee benefits.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

The city also gets immeasurably more publicity because of the event, driving even more visitors, thereby further increasing visitor taxation events.

And they need every dollar they can find to pay public union employee benefits.

I'm not sure if this is meant to be a disagreement? I don't think the cities are doing anything wrong.

I think *Disney* is doing something wrong.

 

[larryz]

I'm not sure if this is meant to be a disagreement? I don't think the cities are doing anything wrong.

I think *Disney* is doing something wrong.

Maybe we disagree just in the proposition that it's somehow "wrong" for Disney to benefit from volunteer labor when Disney hosts their runDisney events across WDW property. RunDisney clearly benefits Disney's bottom line through increased visitation in a formerly very quiet time; part of the effort to homogenize the visitor flow and smooth out the peaks and valleys in attendance.

My position: the fact that Disney no longer provides a full-day ticket shouldn't discourage potential volunteers from helping out... they should want to help for an altruistic reason (maybe even for some selfish reason like a t-shirt fetish), but not in expectation of a bennie like free admission to the parks. Bennies come and bennies go.

Ask your DVC members about the decline in their benefits, and they have paid huge bucks to get some skin in the game!

 

[King Panda 77]

No they absolutely do not.

Entities within the city make money. If runners stay at a Hilton, Hilton makes money. But Hilton isn't the one hosting the race and Hilton doesn't own every hotel and restaurant in the city where the runners have no choice but to stay in a Hilton and eat every meal with Hilton.

Sure, the city ostensibly collects some tax revenue and that sort of thing, but that's offset by the increased need for police, fire, public works, etc. Also, cities can't "make buck" because they're a city. Every dollar they bring in has to be spent on public services either now or in the future.

If the businesses in the city are making extra money then the city makes extra money. It's not difficult to understand.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Maybe we disagree just in the proposition that it's somehow "wrong" for Disney to benefit from volunteer labor when Disney hosts their runDisney events across WDW property. RunDisney clearly benefits Disney's bottom line through increased visitation in a formerly very quiet time; part of the effort to homogenize the visitor flow and smooth out the peaks and valleys in attendance.

My position: the fact that Disney no longer provides a full-day ticket shouldn't discourage potential volunteers from helping out... they should want to help for an altruistic reason (maybe even for some selfish reason like a t-shirt fetish), but not in expectation of a bennie like free admission to the parks. Bennies come and bennies go.

Ask your DVC members about the decline in their benefits, and they have paid huge bucks to get some skin in the game!

Oh I don't care about full-day ticket versus half-day ticket. I think Disney is wrong to solicit volunteers in lieu of unpaid labor in the first place.

It's not difficult to understand.

Are you sure, because you seem to be struggling with it.

If the businesses in the city are making extra money then the city makes extra money. It's not difficult to understand.

The businesses making the money aren't the ones hosting the race.

The Boston Athletic Association hosts the Boston Marathon for the benefit of the runners with ancilary benefits to various local businesses, the City of Boston, and the State of Massachusetts. Entity A hosts an even that benefits entities B, C, D, E, F, G, H, and I.

runDisney hosts runDisney events for the benefit of Disney. Entity A hosts an event that benefits Entity A, almost exclusively.

You don't see how one of those is different than the other?