Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[monothingie]

Then they are more incompetent than I thought if that is the case

I challenge any of the real designers who used the previous system to use this one with their family for a week and see how much they enjoy it vs the old, but that probably never happens.

I truly feel bad for a first timer or even second timer coming to Disney these days.

The problem with MDE (other than reliability) is that it doesn't feel like a unified app. Everything seems like a bolt on which make using it extremely difficult. FP+ (like making ADRs from the app) was much more integrated and easier to access and use. G+ added unnecessary layers.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Can I ask what specifically you dislike about the design? Not disagreeing with you, just curious.

here are some of the major issues I see and experienced first hand

Not able to pre-plan your park day (where to begin/rope drop, know what you will get to do and when)

7am mad dash the day of is bad, and even more so if you are trying to book a LL and ILL or virtual queue at the same time

Not able to select times you want

Not able to modify a LL

Zig zagging all across the park because you have to get whatever open time it gives next which could even be overtop of a dining reservation

and it’s just too confusing to most, I’m a tech guy so I knew how to use it and get the most I could out of it, but in return it became my most stressful and frustrating Disney trip ever also being able to take less in from the parks, being on my phone more than I would have liked, and not doing to normal routines likes previous trips (breakfast each morning at the resort, less shopping time, unable to preplan park navigation for the day, etc)

There is just so much bad with it, not just the availability and lines because of it

 

[GhostHost1000]

Not necessarily. The number of complaints will significantly decrease. Also, the number one metric they use is overall satisfaction. As long as that is within their desired limits, they will be happy. So while the complaints will shift, if overall satisfaction improves significantly, that will be considered a win.

If/when they solve the capacity issue, we'll see just how dissatisfied the average guest is with the design of the system.

That is very discouraging. that sounds like just putting a band-aid on something hoping it just helps enough to say “eh…good enough” not really caring enough to do it right for guests

 

[pdude81]

Does anybody know if it's also 7a at DLR or if over there you have to be in the park to pick your first one? For Maxpass we had to be in the park, but if you were able to get in for early hours you could start picking for park open time. I haven't found .

 

[Purduevian]

here are some of the major issues I see and experienced first hand

1. Not able to pre-plan your park day (where to begin/rope drop, know what you will get to do and when)

2. 7am mad dash the day of is bad, and even more so if you are trying to book a LL and ILL or virtual queue at the same time

3. Not able to select times you want

4. Not able to modify a LL

5. Zig zagging all across the park because you have to get whatever open time it gives next which could even be overtop of a dining reservation

6.and it’s just too confusing to most, I’m a tech guy so I knew how to use it and get the most I could out of it, but in return it became my most stressful and frustrating Disney trip ever also being able to take less in from the parks, being on my phone more than I would have liked, and not doing to normal routines likes previous trips (breakfast each morning at the resort, less shopping time, unable to preplan park navigation for the day, etc)

There is just so much bad with it, not just the availability and lines because of it

I added numbers to your post so I can address each part
1. I think this is by design. Many people did not like pre-planning. It also is a big negative for people that lean about FP or G+ on the first day of their visit
2. If the user base is significantly diminished, the dash won't be nearly as extreme.
3. Again by design, they want you in the park. Valid complaint, but I don't see it changing. I agree it shouldn't let it overlap with a dinning reservation (should give you a time 1 hour after dinning by default)
4. I think they don't want you playing the refresh game. This discourages it
5. I think this is also a problem of capacity. If 10% of people were using it as they do today, I could also select something close to me.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

That is very discouraging. that sounds like just putting a band-aid on something hoping it just helps enough to say “eh…good enough” not really caring enough to do it right for guests

You call it a band-aid because you don't like it but the things you describe are completely by design. Everything you described is built into the supply/demand equation here. If they offered the freedom you seek, demand would sky rocket.

The product was designed to be simple. For guests to open the app in the morning, reserve a ride, close it, ride that ride and rinse and repeat throughout the day. It was not designed to allow guests to schedule their entire itinerary of rides as you did with FP+. They don't want guests on their phone all day mixing and matching reservations. And that's exactly what has happened. Reducing the number of people using it solves all of that.

And to be honest, almost all of the issues you face are due to too many people using it. For example, you want the ability to reserve rides around dining reservations. If less people used it, you wouldn't have to even think about this. Just open the app during your dinner and book something for when it finishes. That's how it was supposed to work until everyone and their cousin bought it.

 

[DCBaker]

Does anybody know if it's also 7a at DLR or if over there you have to be in the park to pick your first one? For Maxpass we had to be in the park, but if you were able to get in for early hours you could start picking for park open time. I haven't found .

You have to be in the park to choose your selections for Disneyland Genie+.

 

[GhostHost1000]

I added numbers to your post so I can address each part
1. I think this is by design. Many people did not like pre-planning. It also is a big negative for people that lean about FP or G+ on the first day of their visit

If someone is visiting Disney and just learning about FP or G+ on their first day of their visit they likely won’t be able to use it anyways

2. If the user base is significantly diminished, the dash won't be nearly as extreme.

That still doesn’t change having to do it at 7am, the day of your vacation, when families are trying to get ready for the day, eat breakfast at the resort, or sometimes even board a bus to the parks

3. Again by design, they want you in the park. Valid complaint, but I don't see it changing. I agree it shouldn't let it overlap with a dinning reservation (should give you a time 1 hour after dinning by default)

Bad design they didn’t think it through

4. I think they don't want you playing the refresh game. This discourages it

You still have to do the refresh game, just a different way. I did all the time because of the nature of it only showing you the next available time, you keep refreshing hoping to get a different time

5. I think this is also a problem of capacity. If 10% of people were using it as they do today, I could also select something close to me.

Maybe…but I felt way less stress entering the parks each day knowing exactly where I was going to begin, where I would be around lunchtimes, parade times, etc, and peace of mind knowing I was for sure going to be able to do ABC

 

[GhostHost1000]

You call it a band-aid because you don't like it but the things you describe are completely by design. Everything you described is built into the supply/demand equation here. If they offered the freedom you seek, demand would sky rocket.

The product was designed to be simple. For guests to open the app in the morning, reserve a ride, close it, ride that ride and rinse and repeat throughout the day. It was not designed to allow guests to schedule their entire itinerary of rides as you did with FP+. They don't want guests on their phone all day mixing and matching reservations. And that's exactly what has happened. Reducing the number of people using it solves all of that.

And to be honest, almost all of the issues you face are due to too many people using it. For example, you want the ability to reserve rides around dining reservations. If less people used it, you wouldn't have to even think about this. Just open the app during your dinner and book something for when it finishes. That's how it was supposed to work until everyone and their cousin bought it.

You are on your phone throughout the day trying to refresh and get certain times because it won’t let you pick your times.

From what you said that almost sounds like they don’t want to design it good because too many would use it? What a horrible way to keep guests happy and wanting to come back. If it’s just a money grab, add it onto the tickets and get ride of the whole thing because vacationing at Disney is not as enjoyable as it used to be

 

[Disney Glimpses]

Bad design they didn’t think it through

Not everyone is savvy with MDX. Often times primary guests will making dining reservations for other guests in their party (without actually linking the guests in MDX) but not actually dine themselves. Blocking them out from reserving would hinder this. There's a reason that dining reservations don't typically talk to other reservation systems.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Not everyone is savvy with MDX. Often times primary guests will making dining reservations for other guests in their party (without actually linking the guests in MDX) but not actually dine themselves. Blocking them out from reserving would hinder this. There's a reason that dining reservations don't typically talk to other reservation systems.

But if they let us choose our times like before, this problem wouldn’t exist because we ourselves could schedule around our dining plans

 

[Disney Glimpses]

Have you used it? You have to be on your phone all day trying to get certain times because it won’t let you pick your times.

Yes I have used it. Wrong. You have to be on your phone all day because times get eaten up quickly that you don't want to miss it. That's literally my point. If the system were operating as designed (with less people using it), there would be availability all day long that you could open it up at 11am 2pm 4pm and find an attraction near in the future.

This was also one of the reasons that the most popular attractions were moved into ILL because they knew if they were included in Genie+, way too many people would purchase Genie+ and also break the model of being able to pick selections easily throughout the day. And it's also why you can select specific times for ILL.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

But if they let us choose our times like before, this problem wouldn’t exist because we ourselves could schedule around our dining plans

You saying this is a design flaw is like saying that a Honda not being able to go 0 to 60 in 2 seconds is a design flaw. You want a product that they aren't selling, that doesn't make it a design flaw. Again, it was meant to be a very lightly used experience where you open it up through out the day and grab an attraction. Taking no more than a minute each time. It's meant to offer flexibility throughout the day; not to schedule your day.

From what I understand, the goal was for guests to basically be able to alternate FP queue and standby queue throughout their entire day. Instead, because so many are using it, it's a 7AM mad dash and then a mad dash every 2 hours after that. All solved by reducing number of people using it via caps or price increases.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Yes I have used it. Wrong. You have to be on your phone all day because times get eaten up quickly that you don't want to miss it. That's literally my point. If the system were operating as designed (with less people using it), there would be availability all day long that you could open it up at 11am 2pm 4pm and find an attraction near in the future.

This was also one of the reasons that the most popular attractions were moved into ILL because they knew if they were included in Genie+, way too many people would purchase Genie+ and also break the model of being able to pick selections easily throughout the day. And it's also why you can select specific times for ILL.

That’s a problem too without being able to select our own LL times.

Less people using it is not a fix, because it’s going to cause other problems and complaints. While it wasn’t a perfect system by any means, more used FP+ and these problems did not exist.

 

[GhostHost1000]

You saying this is a design flaw is like saying that a Honda not being able to go 0 to 60 in 2 seconds is a design flaw. You want a product that they aren't selling, that doesn't make it a design flaw. Again, it was meant to be a very lightly used experience where you open it up through out the day and grab an attraction. Taking no more than a minute each time. It's meant to offer flexibility throughout the day; not to schedule your day.

From what I understand, the goal was for guests to basically be able to alternate FP queue and standby queue throughout their entire day. Instead, because so many are using it, it's a 7AM mad dash and then a mad dash every 2 hours after that. All solved by reducing number of people using it via caps or price increases.

If they want it to take less than a minute each time in its current design, the need to go back to the drawing board because the UI is poor as well

I don’t want a Honda to go 0-60 in 2 seconds, I want a Honda that will be reliable and enjoyable when driving it

 

[Disney Glimpses]

That’s a problem too without being able to select our own LL times.

Less people using it is not a fix, because it’s going to cause other problems and complaints. While it wasn’t a perfect system by any means, more used FP+ and these problems did not exist.

Let me explain this better. Scheduling your attractions under the intended operating procedure is simply not necessary. For example, you may want to select 5pm for your POTC reservation. My point is, if the system were operating as intended, you could just open the app up at 4pm and get a 5pm. That's the freedom it was supposed to offer. The planning is literally what they wanted to remove from the experience.

You shouldn't even have to think about reservations, there should just be availability all day long that you would be comfortable knowing that you didn't have to race to get a 5pm - but simply that it would be there whenever it came time.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Let me explain this better. Scheduling your attractions under the intended operating procedure is simply not necessary. For example, you may want to select 5pm for your POTC reservation. My point is, if the system were operating as intended, you could just open the app up at 4pm and get a 5pm. That's the freedom it was supposed to offer. The planning is literally what they wanted to remove from the experience. You shouldn't have to think about reservations, there should just be availability all day long that you would be comfortable knowing that you didn't have to race to get a 5pm - but simply that it would be there whenever it came time.

If that is seriously how they intended this to work, they are really dumber than I thought in thinking through the design and implementation of this.

Also if that was the design intention, then why even have an app to book LLs. If it’s added to your account, you should just be able to go anywhere anytime and scan in the LL queue

I don’t mean to argue here back and forth haha I just can’t believe how bad Disney could botch some of this and be surprised by usage and complaints

 

[Disney Glimpses]

Also if that was the design intention, then why even have an app to book LLs. If it’s added to your account, you should just be able to go anywhere anytime and scan in the LL queue

Because it's not that type of product. For example, you may want a 5pm but be willing to ride 1 of 3 attractions. Odds are that 1 of those 3 will have availability in the near future, the other 2 may not. Then after you ride that 1, maybe the other 2 have some availability.

It was designed to evenly distribute guests throughout the parks while also offering some flexibility/freedom but not complete freedom as Express Pass does.

The free for all that you're describing would create tremendous volatility throughout the day in queues (for example, what happens when it rains and everyone with G+ in Fantasyland hops onto the FP queue for IASM or PPF?)

So while I am dumbing it down a bit and maybe embellishing the freedom it was supposed to offer, there was supposed to be a reasonable balance between limitations/restrictions and freedom to the point where you could get alternate between FP and standby queues throughout the day.

The bottom line is they modeled this based on expectations of number of purchases and they should've put a cap on purchases based on those models instead of just crossing their fingers that demand wouldn't go crazy.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

I don’t mean to argue here back and forth haha I just can’t believe how bad Disney could botch some of this and be surprised by usage and complaints

It's good feedback honestly. And I share what I can. But unfortunately, so much of what we dislike about Disney and not even just Genie+ is by design.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Disney has created their own problem and are now creating others imo

By having FP’s “free” in the past, most took advantage of that and feel like they have to pay for the new system to at least get close to that same experience. The problem is when we pay for it now, it’s a worse system than before (many factors)

If they start charging a lot more and/or limiting usage, then they just trade one set of problems for another…unhappy guests who now can’t enjoy the park as much as they used to and if they do, having to pay a much higher amount to get close

I don’t know how you solve it, but I’m afraid they don’t either.