Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[MickeyLuv'r]

CL FP+ was $50 + tax per person per day. That's almost $1,500 extra for a family of 4 for one week. AFAIK, adoption was incredibly limited as 3 per day at 60 days out was plenty for most.

Yes it is.

WDW Table service buffets cost $60 per person. If a family of 4 eats one TS/per day for a week, that's $1680.

Evena beloved Dole whip is now $7.40 with tax. If a family of 4 eats just a Dole Whip every day for a week, that's $207.

Eating at WDW is absurdly expensive.

But why is this news? Do you not know the price of food at WDW?

 

[Jeff4272]

I was going to post numbers to this thread, but then trimmed my post. I happened to price early August earlier today.

Early August Royal Pacific runs $4?? (I forget exact $$) but drops to $384 with the AP discount. Later in August no AP discount out yet, but rack rates for basic room is $384 before tax. Earlier in August, Sapphire Falls- really nice hotel just no EP- runs $179 w/ AP discount (or - I think $244 rack). Differ between RP and SF = $204

With a 3 night stay at Sapphire Falls- a US AP pays for the difference between a 2 day hopper and the AP.

Depends how many people pre room, but 4 people (2 adults/2kids) you'd get unlimited EP for 2 days for roughly $218. So that works out to about $27.25 per person per day. if you had only 3 people it would be $37 per person.

If you stay 2 nights, you get 3 days so that would be $36.33/person/day if 4ppl, or $48.44/person/day if 3 pple.

These are seasonal prices. The cost of the hotel would be higher/lower at other times of year, and I don't always get it. Depends on price, my budget, and how crowded the parks will be, and how much I care. I think $36 is reasonable.

BUT clearly this is doing rough calculations of two onsite hotels, some offsite hotels cost less/more than Sapphire Falls.

Depending on your party size, it is likely to be cheaper to book a hotel that has express pass, even if you don’t use it. If you have 6 people and express pass is $150 per person, book one night in a hotel and you get express pass for 2 days, arrival and departure days and it saves you a ton of money

 

[Jeff4272]

Legacy FP and FP+ were free (or included, whatever) for 20 years because Disney knew WDW doesn't have the capacity to make a paid system work. Either someone forgot that or, more likely, the greedy folks in charge underestimated its impact.

I know people mean well by suggesting Genie+ can be fixed by simply denying a large number of guests the ability to purchase it or by making it so expensive that only a few can afford it. As incompetent as Disney management seems to be, they were surely aware of these alternatives and chose not to implement them.

Yes, $120 is affordable for a guest going solo, and $1,000 for 2 people for 3 days at Cedar Point (where there is nothing to do except go on ride after ride) both sound doable. But look around at all the families you see at WDW. Just using my group as an example, at $120 per day, our cost would have been $5,000 on top of the $4,700 we already spent on park tickets. It's not a matter of whether or not we can afford it; the value would not be there for us.

So the choices would be to spend an exorbitant amount for Genie+ (in what would have to be a limited form because of lack of capacity) or stand in long lines all day. Worse yet, we would have to commit to the vacation not knowing if we would be able to buy Genie+ even if we wanted to spend the money. This latter concern would be an issue even if they kept Genie+ affordable and capped it. I wouldn't go not knowing if we would be able to buy it.

People here say Disney doesn't care if it loses guests like me because others will take my place. Maybe that's true, but I find it hard to believe. If that were the case, they would have adopted Universal's model without giving the passes free to any resort guests because "people will pay it." There's a reason they haven't done that and I don't think that will change. Nor do I believe they will keep Genie+ affordable and simply deny large numbers of guests the ability to purchase it. That's also something they could have easily done by this point but the dissatisfaction with such a system would be off the charts.

I'm waiting to hear what Disney is going to do to fix this mess, if it can be done at all. I think their only hope is to find the "sweet spot" where enough people can either afford it or decide on their own not to buy it. In the meantime, we decided on a non-Disney cruise for our family vacation next year.

Exactly what you said. We are in same boat and won’t be back unless it’s fixed

 

[Jeff4272]

Yeah, but at Universal, you get to get in whatever express lane you want, all day, without a return time. I actually went to MK with G+ on a Saturday then USO the next day. At MK I skipped Jungle, Pirates, Carpets, Big Thunder, Mansion, Pan, Mermaid, Pooh, Tea cups, Space, Buzz. (rode other things, but this is what I used G+ on)
At USO I had significantly less of a wait on Forbidden Journey (x3), Hippogriff, Hogwarts express, River adventure, Kong, Hulk, Spiderman, Cat in the hat, Seuss Trolley, Gringotts, Men in black, Simpsons, ET, and Despicable me. We also rode Hagrid's that day without the skip

Why should there be an extra perk for deluxe guests? The hotels are filling up right now. The hotel, location, transportation seems to be enough. Especially with DVC being included in deluxe and them already being locked in for 50 years not matter the perks.

That won’t last. It’s only that way because of the pandemic. It’s going to be a problem and it’s coming soon. Disney is not immune to it like people think

 

[pdude81]

This is very interesting and if executed properly then it just might get me back. Now I know why Top of the World lounge hasn’t reopened yet, because they were going to charge you for it

RUMOR: Disney Vacation Club Considering Paid Member Perks Program

Disney Vacation Club is apparently considering a new paid benefits program entitled "Membership Magic Diamond Level"!

dvcfan.com

But if this gave DVC members 3 anytime LL’s I’d be all in

This would have to be $500 or more, otherwise everybody would pay for it.

 

[Chi84]

Heh?
When I stay at a Universal Deluxe hotel, I am absolutely paying to have Express Pass. Sapphire Falls is just as nice as Royal Pacific, but Express Pass isn't part of the SF package. Club Level is also a paid service. Unless you happen to get it as a free upgrade. WDW sometimes does this, or did. It is a sweet perk to get for free!

I don't understand your hostility though. Most of my WDW stays were not CL, many at the value hotels and offsite.

I'm sorry I tried to provide details about CL.

No hostility, just - along with @disneyglimpses I imagine - a good deal of frustration The difference between perks and resort amenities was explained perfectly in post #15,498. But if you want to believe that fluffy towels are a perk and Universal's Express Pass is a resort amenity, I suspect nothing anyone here says will change your mind. As much fun as this has been, it's unproductive so I'll bow out now.

 

[Chi84]

This would have to be $500 or more, otherwise everybody would pay for it.

If it was limited to DVC members, would that be a problem?

 

[correcaminos]

If it was limited to DVC members, would that be a problem?

There are a lot of DVC members. I do think the price point sounds low, but.... I had hoped they would do unlimited Genie+ access for AP holders at like $100 or so but they never did. Who knows what they'd do. I know it will tick some off though. Especially with the whole get up with blue card vs not - that's how a lot of the mentioned perks are divided out as incentives for people to buy direct.

 

[aaronml]

They are honestly telling everyone out in the open in their surveys (which I am told they are leaning heavily on here). Right now they are specifically trying to gauge where the lever should be re: price/access. It's going to be a tough go for them because while they will raise the price next year by some degree, I think from a PR standpoint they are limited in how much they can raise it.

So for example, their "plan B" may include a service with a $50 price point that they now cannot do without a massive PR blow.

As for nitty gritty specifics, I have no idea (and FWIW I am told that they don't even know yet).

Edit: I expect them to be more iterative here though as I am told that the suspension of presales is expected to have a substantial impact.

IMO, increasing the G+ price from $15/person/day to somewhere between $30 and $50 /person/day would probably be the sweet spot to making G+ more enjoyable (and standby more enjoyable, due to fewer guests using G+).

I realize that many on here (myself included) might balk at that price, but at the end of the day that’s a good thing. Right now, G+ makes everyone miserable. Guests who purchase it are frustrated by the lack of availability, and guests who don’t purchase are frustrated by long standby lines (exacerbated by over-use of G+ LL). A steep G+ price increase would improve the experience for most/all parties over the status quo.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

Heh?
When I stay at a Universal Deluxe hotel, I am absolutely paying to have Express Pass. Sapphire Falls is just as nice as Royal Pacific, but Express Pass isn't part of the SF package. Club Level is also a paid service. Unless you happen to get it as a free upgrade. WDW sometimes does this, or did. It is a sweet perk to get for free!

I don't understand your hostility though. Most of my WDW stays were not CL, many at the value hotels and offsite.

I'm sorry I tried to provide details about CL.

I didn’t say you weren’t paying for it. Of course you are. But it’s still an associated perk which has no impact on your resort stay whatsoever.

I’m not hostile. There’s a clear difference between perks based on affiliation and the primary product being purchased.

Nonetheless, again, Disney hasn’t done perks at their parks based on resort affiliation before with very narrow and limited exceptions.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

@MickeyLuv'r these are not perks! These are amenities built into the cost of the room. You are comparing amenities of resorts and rooms with independent rates.

I am truly perplexed how you think it is unfair that a $1,200/night CL room has better room and resort amenities than a $99/night value room. You cannot compare resort A and resort B, both of which have independent pricing and offerings in this scenario. We are again, discussing affiliation perks. Not goods and services paid for directly with money.

For example, when I pay for an AP and get access to the parks, I am paying for access to the park. That is not a "perk." It's literally what I paid for. Getting a 20% discount on merchandise - that would be a perk. You're conflating the purchased product with affiliated perks (which before EEH did not exist).

And "being treated a little nicer" is completely anecdotal and without proof.

Heh? I don't know what you're talking about. Different hotel rooms come with different perks/amenities, as they should.

If an AP comes with a merchandise discount, that is an included benefit of that pass. Universal's Preferred and Premier Pass both offer 365 day access to the parks, but the Premier costs $200 more. Why? Because it comes with added perks.

Nobody would pay $200 extra if the pass did not come with extras. that is part of deciding the value of the pass.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

Heh? I don't know what you're talking about. Different hotel rooms come with different perks/amenities, as they should.

If an AP comes with a merchandise discount, that is an included benefit of that pass. Universal's Preferred and Premier Pass both offer 365 day access to the parks, but the Premier costs $200 more. Why? Because it comes with added perks.

Nobody would pay $200 extra if the pass did not come with extras. that is part of deciding the value of the pass.

No one is disputing that perks cost money.

 

[pdude81]

If it was limited to DVC members, would that be a problem?

I guess if it were available under membership extras ("blue card" perk) then the numbers might be less terrible. But making it paid would seem that it'd be a new and separate thing. Also the incentives tend to apply to everyone in the household currently. So I'd think this to be way underpriced unless it's completely useless. You can't have everybody getting "priority" upgrades

 

[Jeff4272]

I guess if it were available under membership extras ("blue card" perk) then the numbers might be less terrible. But making it paid would seem that it'd be a new and separate thing. Also the incentives tend to apply to everyone in the household currently. So I'd think this to be way underpriced unless it's completely useless. You can't have everybody getting "priority" upgrades

I’m just want WDW to fix their terrible Genie+ problem and was hoping this was a step in the right direction. Fact of the matter is, the company is awful right now and I do t expect them to make any good decisions so probably just another money grab

 

[monothingie]

IMO, increasing the G+ price from $15/person/day to somewhere between $30 and $50 /person/day would probably be the sweet spot to making G+ more enjoyable (and standby more enjoyable, due to fewer guests using G+).

I realize that many on here (myself included) might balk at that price, but at the end of the day that’s a good thing. Right now, G+ makes everyone miserable. Guests who purchase it are frustrated by the lack of availability, and guests who don’t purchase are frustrated by long standby lines (exacerbated by over-use of G+ LL). A steep G+ price increase would improve the experience for most/all parties over the status quo.

Except that guest satisfaction is not the primary metric for decision making on this. The bean counters are looking at revenue. Revenue is maximized when more people buy it at a lower price. $15 per person wasn't chosen at random. They probably did intense research and focus grouping to determine the optimal cost of G+. That's how they can say that G+ is exceeding expectations. The fact that you won't be able to use it to its full extent is irrelevant. This should be clear based on the new emphasis that you should be HAPPY to get about 2 G+ redemptions per day and anything more is a bonus you should be thankful for.

 

[Jeff4272]

Except that guest satisfaction is not the primary metric for decision making on this. The bean counters are looking at revenue. Revenue is maximized when more people buy it at a lower price. $15 per person wasn't chosen at random. They probably did intense research and focus grouping to determine the optimal cost of G+. That's how they can say that G+ is exceeding expectations. The fact that you won't be able to use it to its full extent is irrelevant. This should be clear based on the new emphasis that you should be HAPPY to get about 2 G+ redemptions per day and anything more is a bonus you should be thankful for.

Lol. That’s funny. What a joke

 

[Jrb1979]

Except that guest satisfaction is not the primary metric for decision making on this. The bean counters are looking at revenue. Revenue is maximized when more people buy it at a lower price. $15 per person wasn't chosen at random. They probably did intense research and focus grouping to determine the optimal cost of G+. That's how they can say that G+ is exceeding expectations. The fact that you won't be able to use it to its full extent is irrelevant. This should be clear based on the new emphasis that you should be HAPPY to get about 2 G+ redemptions per day and anything more is a bonus you should be thankful for.

Your right on them loving the revenue for it. I do believe @disneyglimpses that they didn't expect this many to buy it. Which is why they stopped advanced sales. They can't do much til next year when those who pre-purchased Genie+ are done.

Disney knows it's not working but they like the revenue that it's making. IMO they just need to raise the price and price some people out.

 

[bhg469]

Your right on them loving the revenue for it. I do believe @disneyglimpses that they didn't expect this many to buy it. Which is why they stopped advanced sales. They can't do much til next year when those who pre-purchased Genie+ are done.

Disney knows it's not working but they like the revenue that it's making. IMO they just need to raise the price and price some people out.

Raise the price and Cap it, its the only way to make it work... But you made the point that they're making the money so they probably don't want to mess with their "success"

 

[correcaminos]

I guess if it were available under membership extras ("blue card" perk) then the numbers might be less terrible. But making it paid would seem that it'd be a new and separate thing. Also the incentives tend to apply to everyone in the household currently. So I'd think this to be way underpriced unless it's completely useless. You can't have everybody getting "priority" upgrades

We've been talking about priority upgrades. I have no idea how that is really possible given the way DVC works. Only priority waitlists work. The rest kind of falls under direct vs resale. They make way more tying to a purchase vs a measly yearly fee.

 

[Purduevian]

That won’t last. It’s only that way because of the pandemic. It’s going to be a problem and it’s coming soon. Disney is not immune to it like people think

The parks re-opened on July 11th 2020. 709 days ago. The covid vaccines have been widely available since summer of 2021 about a year ago. Flights were back to 75-80% of 2019 levels back in July of 2021 (Source). I'm amazed people are still considering the travel "revenge travel" or covid travel. I think the parks/resorts are just flat out crowded because people are back to regular travel plans. WDW was always crowded back in 2019. I just don't think the lack of Magic express, magic bands, evening extra magic hours, ect are stopping many people from going back to regular vacations.

At least for me I got my revenge travel back in 2021... Spending quite a bit extra on vacations and experiences that year. Now in summer of 2022, I am still traveling, but it is pretty similar to what I was doing pre-pandemic.

Nonetheless, again, Disney hasn’t done perks at their parks based on resort affiliation before with very narrow and limited exceptions.

Not sure if these are considered park perks... but I always felt like some of the park perks for deluxe guests were

• Monorail/friendship boat transportation is nicer than bus transportation
• I always felt like busses showed up more frequently at the nicer resorts
• Never having to share a bus with another resort

I realize these aren't inside the park, but it closely relates your experience going to and from the parks and resorts.