News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[castlecake2.0]

What special tax privileges? Paying more?

Good on you for trying to stop the spread of misinformation, this thread is so exhausting. If one more person talk about Disney’s “tax breaks” my brain might explode. If they really want to go after that fight talk about Lake Nona that is still going full steam ahead, not Reedy Creek.

 

[EPCOT-O.G.]

I’m not sure the Chick-fil-A situation would be a First Amendment violation. This has happened only, I believe, at locations like airports, where the city is responsible for choosing vendors. The city can make the claim that choosing a vendor that many people boycott because of its anti-LBGTQ views makes it a less desirable partner than a non-controversial restaurant. In that sense, it would be no different than them not choosing a restaurant that had objectionable or offensive pictures as part of their decor, for example.

Entirely different. Chick-Fil-A’s are not allowed to do business at all when they are singled out for not being able to obtain a lease or business license. Others attempted to shut down bakeries completely. No one is taking away Disney’s ability to do business - it just has to do so under the same circumstances as any other local business in that region in the state.

 

[willf]

I have to disagree.

Kids are quite interested in the personal lifes of their teachers. The younger ones even more than the older ones. I've done tons of internships and the introduction was always the first thing to do. There's a clear patern in the first questions : if I had a girlfriend or if I was married, or had a child. Sometimes even basic stuff like if I had a mom and a dad and if they were nice or strict. Just because that's what they can relate to from there own lifes.

Quite frankly, the young ones cared less for my age . They don't even understand big numbers yet. Age doesnt mean a thing to them, they can't yet relate to that. Someone once guessed me as 50, because I was longer than their own teacher ...
Even once, a kid asked if I was pregnant (the kid had a pregnant mother and didnt fully understand the concept, so he kept asking everyone is he or she was pregnant). Young kids have no idea what is and isn't approriate, so they speak and ask very freely and directly. That ' social compass' is full in development.

The older kids, certainly the girls, get a bit more giggly and sensitive about personal questions. They have developed so much more social skills and understanding of socials paterns, so they know what to and what to not ask during a first introduction. The older ones had a clue about my sexuality after a while, but knew it was a sensitive subject so they didn't dare to ask directly. They try to hint at it, but backed off if I wasn't showing an open attitude about it.

It is not a standard school subject that is taught or remembered like that. It might not even be a class wide thing. But the personal interactions happen all the time. I'm quite sure that despite the differences between the USA and the Netherlands, a teacher in the USA also has tons of interactions with students apart from their general class instructions.

This is also logical: young kids have a very narrow social network when they are young. A teacher is often within the top 5 of adults they have daily/weekly interactions with. A teacher a new adult to learn from, but also a person they are curious about. They wonder if that adult is the same as they adults they know. They try to find similarities.

Completely agreed. But unfortunately, at least in the US, logic has gone out the window.

 

[MandaM]

Entirely different. Chick-Fil-A’s are not allowed to do business at all when they are singled out for not being able to obtain a lease or business license. Others attempted to shut down bakeries completely. No one is taking away Disney’s ability to do business - it just has to do so under the same circumstances as any other local business in that region in the state.

No company is entitled to be chosen as an airport vendor. How many restaurants are in an airport, a dozen or two at most? Thousands of restaurants aren’t getting chosen for various reasons. Chick-fil-A is able to build their own stores anywhere in the city that they want to. They just weren’t chosen for the airport. That’s not denying their ability to do business.

The government doesn’t have to take away Disney’s ability to do business to have it be a violation of their freedom of speech. Making a retaliatory bill to adversely impact their business is a 1st Amendment violation.

Orange County alone has 47 special districts. What about places like Daytona Speedway or the Villages? Apparently those are all fine. As was Disney’s special district, until Desantis threw his temper tantrum. I guess the relevant question is, do you support the freedom of speech? Or is it ok to trample it when it’s affecting the other side?

 

[willf]

No company is entitled to be chosen as an airport vendor. How many restaurants are in an airport, a dozen or two at most? Thousands of restaurants aren’t getting chosen for various reasons. Chick-fil-A is able to build their own stores anywhere in the city that they want to. They just weren’t chosen for the airport. That’s not denying their ability to do business.

The government doesn’t have to take away Disney’s ability to do business to have it be a violation of their freedom of speech. Making a retaliatory bill to adversely impact their business is a 1st Amendment violation.

Orange County alone has 47 special districts. What about places like Daytona Speedway or the Villages? Apparently those are all fine. As was Disney’s special district, until Desantis threw his temper tantrum. I guess the relevant question is, do you support the freedom of speech? Or is it ok to trample it when it’s affecting the other side?

Plus, some have pushed for corporations legally to be considered people, which I think would make the 1A implications even more direct

 

[JoeCamel]

No company is entitled to be chosen as an airport vendor. How many restaurants are in an airport, a dozen or two at most? Thousands of restaurants aren’t getting chosen for various reasons. Chick-fil-A is able to build their own stores anywhere in the city that they want to. They just weren’t chosen for the airport. That’s not denying their ability to do business.

The government doesn’t have to take away Disney’s ability to do business to have it be a violation of their freedom of speech. Making a retaliatory bill to adversely impact their business is a 1st Amendment violation.

Orange County alone has 47 special districts. What about places like Daytona Speedway or the Villages? Apparently those are all fine. As was Disney’s special district, until Desantis threw his temper tantrum. I guess the relevant question is, do you support the freedom of speech? Or is it ok to trample it when it’s affecting the other side?

Chick-Fil-A is not open on Sundays, that won't work in an airport

 

[peter11435]

No one is taking away Disney’s ability to do business - it just has to do so under the same circumstances as any other local business in that region in the state.

You don’t have to take away their ability to do business to be violating free speech

Do you know exactly what circumstances are materially different for Disney than for other local businesses? Do those other businesses have operations at near the same scale as Disney?

 

[Tuvalu]

Chick-Fil-A is not open on Sundays, that won't work in an airport

And yet there is one in Atlanta, the busiest airport in the world.

 

[JoeCamel]

And yet there is one in Atlanta, the busiest airport in the world.

My bad - logic

 

[kingdead]

The First Amendment defense isn't going to fly under this particular Supreme Court--don't know how the lower courts lean. (I'm not sure if it would fly under any court--not having a special business district is a violation of speech? The original "Don't Say Gay" law would seem to be more of a violation but I suppose those affected aren't as uniformly rich...)

 

[peter11435]

The First Amendment defense isn't going to fly under this particular Supreme Court--don't know how the lower courts lean. (I'm not sure if it would fly under any court--not having a special business district is a violation of speech? The original "Don't Say Gay" law would seem to be more of a violation but I suppose those affected aren't as uniformly rich...)

The government using its power to silence dissent and speech it disagrees with is a violation of the first amendment. The government executing Intent to cause harm through what ever means to punish someone for speaking out is a violation of the first amendment

 

[lazyboy97o]

Quoting from the Orange County homepage:

TAX COLLECTOR​

SCOTT RANDOLPH​

As Orange County Tax Collector, Scott Randolph has worked to expand services to county residents, return millions of dollars back to local taxpayers and protect seniors, small businesses, non-profits and churches from unfair tax penalties.​

Yet it's not his job to recommend solutions to fill a $165M budget gap?

Respectfully (and I mean this), I understand that you are opposed to everything that has happened. Many are.

But to continue to suggest that the people of Orlando County are going to be stuck paying for this ignores the power of the legislature and their mood towards Disney.

I fully understand your opposition to what's happened but its misleading to suggest that Orange County residents will pay for this.

There is absolutely nothing misleading about discussing the situation as it exists right now. Presenting hypotheticals with no indication of their occurrence as fact is absolutely misleading.

County officials have to work with the laws that exist right now. Right now they are facing an increased financial burden, that is fact. Any legislative solution is nothing but hope. It does not exist nor is it in process. The legislature is not working right now, so they are not working on a solution. The idea that county officials cannot criticize the situation that exists now, the situation they must deal with, a situation that was concealed from them and created without their input, is laughable. The idea that county officials cannot criticize the situation that exists right now and are instead supposed to take on the work of those who created the situation, which they do not control, to make those who created the situation look better and somehow be “fair,” is even more ridiculous.

How many hypotheticals does one have to create before it is acceptable to criticize the situation that exists? Should county officials not start working on the situation that exists? Should they do nothing and keep quiet until the end of April in the hope that a solution appears by the end of the next session?

 

[DisneyDebRob]

My bad - logic

There you go again using logic. When will you learn?

 

[Virtual Toad]

Regardless of the eventual outcome and consequences for TWDC and Reedy Creek, the spirit, tenor and deliberate lack of decency and decorum on display by elected officials who pushed this measure through in special session should be extraordinarily troubling for all US citizens regardless of their affiliation or beliefs.

In reading this thread, I have learned that the state leaders behind punishing TWDC for exercising their right to free speech also support demonizing teachers (education), journalists (free speech), Disney (about as quintessentially American as a company could possibly be), the Special Olympics (threatening to pull state funding because a member of an opposing party was invited to attend a fundraiser and then repeatedly calling that person a w****), as well as anyone who desires nothing more than to be treated equally in a nation founded on the belief of equality for all. And now even the Constitution itself. All while gleefully not only abandoning the democratic principle of professional, mature, measured debate on genuine issues, but also seemingly going out of their way to misbehave in the extreme to score cynical political points simply because they feel they can get away with it.

I believe in disagreement over issues. A society that promotes robust debate and allows more than one viewpoint to exist is a healthy society. But I have a genuine question for those who support this kind of leadership. Is this really how you want your leaders to behave? Does this set a good example for your children? Is “winning” at all costs worth endorsing and supporting this sort of behavior? Can’t we as a nation do better?

 

[Prince-1]

And it looks like state government might have the right to remove special tax privileges because of it. We'll have to see, I guess. Personally -- I'd like to see Disney stay out of politics completely.

Disney has always been involved with politics but with the Don't Say Gay bill it all became a public spectacle for numerous reasons.

 

[Lilofan]

Quoting from the Orange County homepage:

TAX COLLECTOR​

SCOTT RANDOLPH​

As Orange County Tax Collector, Scott Randolph has worked to expand services to county residents, return millions of dollars back to local taxpayers and protect seniors, small businesses, non-profits and churches from unfair tax penalties.​

Yet it's not his job to recommend solutions to fill a $165M budget gap?

Respectfully (and I mean this), I understand that you are opposed to everything that has happened. Many are.

But to continue to suggest that the people of Orlando County are going to be stuck paying for this ignores the power of the legislature and their mood towards Disney.

I fully understand your opposition to what's happened but its misleading to suggest that Orange County residents will pay for this.

Misleading or officials giving a real dose of reality to Orange and Osceola residents? Randolph is an elected official so he may be sugar coating the issues by calling it misleading. If the taxpayers property taxes are raised under his watch then he will be concerned about his reelection.

 

[Donald Esq]

Plus, some have pushed for corporations legally to be considered people, which I think would make the 1A implications even more direct

Not just pushed for. The Supreme Court has already ruled that corporations legally are people and that the first amendment applies to them in the Citizens United ruling. Political speech is the most protected form of speech and DeSantis and Florida legislators keep giving Disney exhibits for their first amendment suit as they keep opening their mouths to the press that they are retaliating against Disney for their position on this bill.

 

[GoofGoof]

And it looks like state government might have the right to remove special tax privileges because of it. We'll have to see, I guess. Personally -- I'd like to see Disney stay out of politics completely.

Disney has been involved in FL politics for 50+ years now just like every other major corporation. In the last 2 years alone over 60% of their donations have gone to Republican candidates including most of the bill sponsors and $50K to the Governors re-election campaign. There is a false narrative being painted that Disney is only now getting involved and they shouldn’t. None of these people had a problem cashing the checks when they got their donations.

Should all corporations be banned from political contributions all together? That would have to be passed as a law first and then survive the Supreme Court. Good luck finding enough politicians to vote for that. They almost all take political contributions from corporations and even if you ban direct contributions they would just donate to PACs to avoid the rule.

 

[mikejs78]

Quoting from the Orange County homepage:

TAX COLLECTOR​

SCOTT RANDOLPH​

As Orange County Tax Collector, Scott Randolph has worked to expand services to county residents, return millions of dollars back to local taxpayers and protect seniors, small businesses, non-profits and churches from unfair tax penalties.​

Yet it's not his job to recommend solutions to fill a $165M budget gap?

Respectfully (and I mean this), I understand that you are opposed to everything that has happened. Many are.

But to continue to suggest that the people of Orlando County are going to be stuck paying for this ignores the power of the legislature and their mood towards Disney.

I fully understand your opposition to what's happened but its misleading to suggest that Orange County residents will pay for this.

It's absolutely not, because as the law stands now, they will.

You brought up the prospect of the legislature changing the law. That's far from guaranteed to happen. The legislature can't just make a law that only applies to Disney - they have to make it more generic (like they did for this bill by making it apply to districts created before 1968).

The issue with allowing for taxing units on an incorporated municipalities is that it would have consequences beyond Disney, and the legislature may not want those consequences as it would allow counties to get around some of the tax limits in the state constitution by simply setting up taxing units around various municipalities. There's a needle here that the state will have to thread very carefully to avoid unintended side effects. And the GOP legislature may ultimately decide it's better to have the local counties foot Disney's bill (which tend to vote Democrat) than to have their own constituents be taxed.

 

[GoofGoof]

Quoting from the Orange County homepage:

TAX COLLECTOR​

SCOTT RANDOLPH​

As Orange County Tax Collector, Scott Randolph has worked to expand services to county residents, return millions of dollars back to local taxpayers and protect seniors, small businesses, non-profits and churches from unfair tax penalties.​

Yet it's not his job to recommend solutions to fill a $165M budget gap?

Respectfully (and I mean this), I understand that you are opposed to everything that has happened. Many are.

But to continue to suggest that the people of Orlando County are going to be stuck paying for this ignores the power of the legislature and their mood towards Disney.

I fully understand your opposition to what's happened but its misleading to suggest that Orange County residents will pay for this.

It would be highly unusual for the state legislature or the Governor to dictate a special tax against a specific corporation, especially one they are actively telling anyone who will listen they are trying to punish. This is already a slippery slope we’ve gone down but imagine if every state where one party controls the legislature and the Governor’s mansion decided to punish any company who supports their opponents by levying additional special taxes on them. Where does this end.

I understand what you are saying and I agree that it is highly unlikely that the end result is a 25% tax increase on residents to make up for the $165M budget gap. This guy is pointing out the reality that if nothing else is done there’s a budget gap and the only way to make up for it is to raise taxes or cut services. That’s factually accurate, if nothing else is done.

I think this is largely a political stunt and the most likely outcome is the special district remains since it’s actually a benefit to both Disney (the largest employer in the state) and the residents of FL or specifically Orange County. They may dissolve RCID and then replace it with another special district but the outcome will be largely the same, again just a stunt.