News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[JoeCamel]

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Anyone have an answer to this?

The underwriters and insurance company would require a reason they are raising money. They can't issue a muni bond on thin air and pixie dust. It has to have a purpose.

 

[mightynine]

Do I think Iger/Zenia would’ve been better able to handle this situation like the political/PR animals they are? Sure.

I don’t believe so.

EDIT: @wdwmagic or @The Mom - if you’re going to edit out a chunk of my post, just delete it.

 

[SteveBrickNJ]

Just watched an interview of the Florida Speaker of the House. He said that Florida government has been looking at the "special tax status for Disney since 2019".View attachment 634667

The Florida Speaker of the House said that Disney could build a nuclear power plant if they wanted to. It is not inappropriate to treat Disney equally as other lucrative companies that operate in Florida. Setting aside Disney's support for any contemporary topics...just focusing solely on business...WHY SHOULD Disney get special status but not FedEx or Amazon?

 

[KrzyKtty]

Great thread on this:

Thank you, that was really helpful

 

[CaptainAmerica]

In your scenario, the county just inherited Disney's $2 billion debt.

It's not Disney's debt, it's RCID's debt, which is exactly the reason this whole arrangement is so corrupt in the first place. That liability should ABSOLUTELY be on the balance sheet of The Walt Disney Company. But it isn't.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Great thread on this:

Except this is a lie, and without this lie, the whole narrative collapses.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

It's not Disney's debt, it's RCID's debt, which is exactly the reason this whole arrangement is so corrupt in the first place. That liability should ABSOLUTELY be on the balance sheet of The Walt Disney Company. But it isn't.

It doesn't matter whose balance sheet it was on if it is now on Orange County's (or the State of Florida's) balance sheet. And whoever becomes responsible for it (if anyone) can absolutely use political forces (ie, taxes and fees) to reclaim that money from Disney. It's not like Disney can pack up its resort and go elsewhere.

 

[Brian]

Except this is a lie, and without this lie, the whole narrative collapses.

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I'm almost certain that Disney currently pays for it's dedicated sector of the Orange County Sheriff's Office. It's a fair deal - if the county is providing them with a dedicated force, why should the other taxpayers of the county have to foot the bill?

A similar arrangement can certainly be made for Fire and Rescue services, which I would assume would also be a dedicated force for WDW property, probably comprising of many of the same people already working in that capacity for RCID. Given their familiarity with the property and niche things like Skyliner evacuations, there would likely be a huge appetite to keep them on.

 

[Brian]

It's not like Disney can pack up its resort and go elsewhere.

You sure about that? A buddy of mine in Jacksonville just snapped this photo.

 

[BWV2013]

RCID became a target when Disney choose to put politics above what should have been their top 2 priorities, their customers and their stockholders.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

Except this is a lie, and without this lie, the whole narrative collapses.

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This is incorrect. There are tons of ways to raise revenue without raising sales or property taxes. For example, the Florida toll authority could place a gigantic toll booth in front of every entrance to the resort and charge $20 to enter the property. Alternatively, Orange County could change its permit fee schedule to charge per man hour used in the permit application process (by which Disney will far outscale any other entity in the county). They could further astronomically raise permitting fees solely for businesses the size of Disney (by employee #s or customer #s), which would ultimately only apply to Disney.

Has no one in this thread ever worked for government before? This stuff is basic.

 

[BWV2013]

The Colorado governor offered Disney the opportunity to relocate to Colorado. I'm looking forward to watching a parade during a hard Colorado February blizzard.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

This is incorrect. There are tons of ways to raise revenue without raising sales or property taxes. For example, the Florida toll authority could place a gigantic toll booth in front of every entrance to the resort and charge $20 to enter the property. Alternatively, Orange County could change its permit fee schedule to charge per man hour used in the permit application process (by which Disney will far outscale any other entity in the county). They could further astronomically raise permitting fees solely for businesses the size of Disney (by employee #s or customer #s), which would ultimately only apply to Disney.

Has no one in this thread ever worked for government before? This stuff is basic.

They could also raise property tax rates across the board... and then offer a homeowner tax credit or small business tax credit or some such thing.

It's like... Congress can't raise taxes just on childless people. But they CAN raise taxes on everyone... and then increase the Child Tax Credit.

I'm not sure why you said "this is incorrect." I was agreeing with you.

 

[lazyboy97o]

In your scenario, the county just inherited Disney's $2 billion debt.

The main reason RCID exists is so that Disney can avoid going through the county permitting process. This is because, for everyone else, it takes forever and is miserable. The county could absolutely raise permitting fees for large businesses (ie, just Disney) to make up for the increased burden on the permitting office personnel (ie, hire more people) and to pay for the debt it just inherited (in your scenario).

The Reedy Creek Improvement District created a permitting process and building codes that were almost nonexistent. Florida did not get a uniform state building code until 2001, prior to which the EPCOT Building Code was a model code local jurisdictions could adopt for their own use.

Even today, permitting through Reedy Creek Improvement District is not an easy process. The District is known for being very strict and more rigid than the counties or City. This is not just in regards to the EPCOT Building Code which must be more restrictive than the Florida Building Code but also in terms of the actual bureaucracy of how things are done. You follow the District’s rules, no exceptions and they dictate to Disney how to have documents prepared.

Walt Disney Imagineering is not a large company and they are the legal owner of all new projects. Any threshold they would hit would be hit by many others, and that’s ignoring the potential of shell companies.

 

[flynnibus]

Sorry, being stupid again. Can you explain what that means a little bit clear? I read the whole thing and I still don't quite get it. Does it mean that they are essentially saying Florida can't do anything until they pay all their debts and since they own a billion dollars that's not going anywhere anytime soon?

Edit

Or is it saying that RCID can keep taxing Disney until it's all paid off?

Basically it was the language that gives investors the confidence that RCID would exist after taking their money.. the state law that granted RCID the rights to issue bonds also guaranteed they would to be able to exist and continue their means to complete their obligation.

AKA if this bond was backed with RCID tax income... RCID can't have that ability to tax taken away until the bond obligations are met. It opens a whole new avenue of people that could file suit against the state/RCID and path for RCID to push back that ISN'T addressed in the new law.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

This is incorrect. There are tons of ways to raise revenue without raising sales or property taxes. For example, the Florida toll authority could place a gigantic toll booth in front of every entrance to the resort and charge $20 to enter the property. Alternatively, Orange County could change its permit fee schedule to charge per man hour used in the permit application process (by which Disney will far outscale any other entity in the county). They could further astronomically raise permitting fees solely for businesses the size of Disney (by employee #s or customer #s), which would ultimately only apply to Disney.

Has no one in this thread ever worked for government before? This stuff is basic.

So we're going from it being unfair that Disney has special status to planning ways Disney can be specially targeted for taxation?

 

[DLR92]

It time to focus Anaheim as a flagship. Drop WDW and leave FL in dust.

 

[englanddg]

I'm almost certain that Disney currently pays for it's dedicated sector of the Orange County Sheriff's Office. It's a fair deal - if the county is providing them with a dedicated force, why should the other taxpayers of the county have to foot the bill?

A similar arrangement can certainly be made for Fire and Rescue services, which I would assume would also be a dedicated force for WDW property, probably comprising of many of the same people already working in that capacity for RCID. Given their familiarity with the property and niche things like Skyliner evacuations, there would likely be a huge appetite to keep them on.

Yes. Disney pays OCSD. Around 10 - 11 million annually, I think I read.

 

[Lilofan]

The Florida Speaker of the House said that Disney could build a nuclear power plant if they wanted to. It is not inappropriate to treat Disney equally as other lucrative companies that operate in Florida. Setting aside Disney's support for any contemporary topics...just focusing solely on business...WHY SHOULD Disney get special status but not FedEx or Amazon?

It is odd that from 1968-2019, whoever led to FL didn't think to pursue that. DeSantis divided and conquered, couldn't care less about the Orange and Osceola residents whose own taxes will be raised and support the changeover, and his straight up retaliation against his "woke"enemy who BTW is the main reason why his state tourism in the number #1 generator of revenue for his state , worked in his favor.

 

[KrzyKtty]

Basically it was the language that gives investors the confidence that RCID would exist after taking their money.. the state law that granted RCID the rights to issue bonds also guaranteed they would to be able to exist and continue their means to complete their obligation.

AKA if this bond was backed with RCID tax income... RCID can't have that ability to tax taken away until the bond obligations are met. It opens a whole new avenue of people that could file suit against the state/RCID and path for RCID to push back that ISN'T addressed in the new law.

Thank you. You've been incredibly helpful and very patient with me .

Either way I think I'm going to sit back and end up seeing what happens over the next year or 2. Nothing's going to be figured out or solved today. And at the end of the day it's not entirely or really my issue either way since I do not live in this state. I don't see this affecting visitor day-to-day operations really. Worst case prices get more expensive again, which is on par anyway.

Bonus is that this might finally cost Bob Cheapscape his job though.