News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[flynnibus]

A case can be made that RCID exists to serve the millions of tourists from Florida and around the world that come to the district and add billions to the Florida economy and supports hundreds of thousands of jobs.

Yeah, but then you can also point to all the other tourism that now happens WITHOUT RCID

And you could make the argument that RCID served more of a purpose when Disney was starting from scratch... but now almost 50 years later are the same needs still present? Or can this tourism magnet continue to thrive under regulation shared with everyone else?

If one takes away the 'dumping effect' dissolution has on Orange and Osceola, it's an interesting debate to question "Are we better off without the improvement district as implement?". It's also a hard debate when there aren't really high impact consequences to the counties right now.. which really steers you towards "why change?".. unless there were unresolved issues or desirable revenue streams they were seeking.

I can certainly understand the counties wanting nothing to do with this because it represents a major shift they aren't inviting themselves.

 

[lazyboy97o]

The Morse family is not a Fortune 500 company generating billions of dollars in revenue each year. My overall point is that Disney doesn't need its hand held anymore to maintain WDW. Residential developments do. I'm not familiar with The Villages' financials, but I am positive that they didn't have $67 billion in revenue last year to work with.

Developers working in minimum 1,000 acres chunks aren’t exactly small. The largest residential development in the country, one that includes control of fire and emergency services, commercial business development and schools is also not a small operation.

In residential developments the cost is shifted away from the developer and onto the homeowners. It’s a vehicle that lets developers push off the costs and pass them on to others without the sticker shock of paying for it up front. RCID has the opposite effect, it keeps the costs contained and ensures that Disney is responsible for the infrastructure that serves their needs. Look at some of the controversy over Orange County building roads to serve Epic Universe or the pedestrian bridge built at the North Campus. There is no murkiness or dealing, Disney directly pays for the stuff that serves Disney.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Yeah, but then you can also point to all the other tourism that now happens WITHOUT RCID

And you could make the argument that RCID served more of a purpose when Disney was starting from scratch... but now almost 50 years later are the same needs still present? Or can this tourism magnet continue to thrive under regulation shared with everyone else?

If one takes away the 'dumping effect' dissolution has on Orange and Osceola, it's an interesting debate to question "Are we better off without the improvement district as implement?". It's also a hard debate when there aren't really high impact consequences to the counties right now.. which really steers you towards "why change?".. unless there were unresolved issues or desirable revenue streams they were seeking.

I can certainly understand the counties wanting nothing to do with this because it represents a major shift they aren't inviting themselves.

Except their aren’t really regulations that Disney avoids.

 

[Lilofan]

I’m just curious because currently guests and cast can call 24/7 for Reedy Creek paramedics to check them out with their health issues and or transport to the hospital where they want to go locally of course. This is all free of charge to the patient. If no more Reedy Creek will there be a medical charge passed onto the patient if and when Orange County takes over?

 

[Tamandua]

Well... Disney picked a fight and now they're getting punched back. Hard to feel sorry for them.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

I’m just curious because currently guests and cast can call 24/7 for Reedy Creek paramedics to check them out with their health issues and or transport to the hospital where they want to go locally of course. This is all free of charge to the patient. If no more Reedy Creek will there be a medical charge passed onto the patient if and when Orange County takes over?

By "patient" do you mean primarily Disney employees and tourists? The answer is yes. Of course, like all businesses, Disney is free to hire private paramedics and similar personnel to be on-call at all times. Fire department services, too.

 

[Lilofan]

By "patient" do you mean primarily Disney employees and tourists? The answer is yes.

Yes the one being treated. In my family areas in other states an ambulance ride to the hospital is several hundred dollars billed to the one being transported. If the patient is being charged would that make some change their mind in calling 911, remains to be seen.

 

[Brian]

Developers working in minimum 1,000 acres chunks aren’t exactly small. The largest residential development in the country, one that includes control of fire and emergency services, commercial business development and schools is also not a small operation.

In residential developments the cost is shifted away from the developer and onto the homeowners. It’s a vehicle that lets developers push off the costs and pass them on to others without the sticker shock of paying for it up front. RCID has the opposite effect, it keeps the costs contained and ensures that Disney is responsible for the infrastructure that serves their needs. Look at some of the controversy over Orange County building roads to serve Epic Universe or the pedestrian bridge built at the North Campus. There is no murkiness or dealing, Disney directly pays for the stuff that serves Disney.

I take your point regarding Disney paying for Disney by way of RCID, whereas home developers pass the infrastructure costs onto the home buyer by way of the CDD debt, however, my position is that this arrangement benefits the free market by ensuring that smaller home builders like the one I worked with can exist in the market and compete against the likes of Lennar and DR Horton, who dominate the Central FL landscape. This arrangement is not perfect, but I can't personally think of a more effective strategy, because companies will always pass along their costs to the consumer one way or another.

More importantly, I maintain that Disney should pay directly for their infrastructure. If they need a highway overpass at the MK toll plaza (their property), they should arrange for the work and pay for it out of their enormous coffers. They should also be forking over some money to the counties, outside of ordinary taxes, for new infrastructure development that serves them (but not exclusively); same with Universal vis-a-vis Epic Universe.

 

[ifan]

I’m trying to see how this hurts Disney - outside of lack of special treatment and financing capabilities. Perhaps once the neighboring counties took control they could raise taxes specifically on Disney to cover costs and keep homeowners costs down? There’s no way lawmakers allow taxes to be raised on individuals from this - they will find some way to charge Disney.

I don’t have a full understanding of this situation because the reporting has been horrible on both sides. Either way, why has Chapek not been trying to handle this? The PR for Disney is bad - and he has been playing defense on most issues while going invisible on this issue. Surely Disney has a stance on this… the stock market/shareholders seems to hate it.

 

[Lilofan]

By "patient" do you mean primarily Disney employees and tourists? The answer is yes. Of course, like all businesses, Disney is free to hire private paramedics and similar personnel to be on-call at all times. Fire department services, too.

That’s comes with additional costs but will the ones in charge to approve, not likely.

 

[LapsedWDWFan]

Actually this wouldn't be a win for Disney. They're day to day business would get much more difficult. All all of the tax implications aside, if RCID is repealed, everything they build, all of their food locations, etc. comes under the scrutiny of county regulators. How that plays out comes down to some intangibles I think. Some have said, and I'm sure it's true, that there are those that see Disney is a favorable light for what they bring to the economy. However, the inverse is also true. There are some that lament Disney's outsized influence in the community and state that would relish the opportunity to stick it to the mouse a bit. Also keep in mind Disney's recent efforts to keep people on property therefore siphoning off dollars from reaching the local economy. Another X factor would be why they got there in the first place. Disney stuck it nose in where it didn't belong and came out against, and stated it was their mission to help repeal, a piece of legislation that is broadly popular. 57-65% of American approve according to polls. I'd imagine there are some county regulators who are not too fond of that move and could get very tick-tack with Disney in inspections and red tape.

I've seen it happen. There was a club in my neighborhood that the township wasn't fond of and wanted gone. It existed because it was grandfathered in from newer ordinances. The club renovated their kitchen, but the inspectors got so nitpicky with every little detail that the brand new kitchen never reopened because all of the changes the inspectors wanted would have been so expensive.

Another anecdotal piece of evidence is that a former cast member told me they knew a Disney chef who got transferred to Golden Oak for a while. The chef said dealing with the county regulators was a nightmare and made his job 10x harder than it was on property.

Now imagine that in every food location across Disney property. Imagine building/renovation projects having inspectors who get tick tack and forcing constant changes. Disney's life will not be rosy under the county's thumb. Now this is all speculation, but it's very plausible. Don't underestimate government bureaucracy.

 

[Animal_Kingdom_09]

Not only that but apparently another provision of FL law is that a special district has to be dissolved the same way it was instituted. Reedy Creek was instituted in ordinary session, not special session, so this law may not end up applying to RCID at all...

Not sure how people got to this interpretation. 189.072 simply states that if the district was authorized by a referendum, then it has to be dissolved the same way. Likewise, if a county commission created it, then the county has to dissolve it. Reedy Creek was created by the Legislature, so only the Legislature can dissolve it involuntarily.

 

[Tamandua]

I’m trying to see how this hurts Disney - outside of lack of special treatment and financing capabilities.

Look into the history of Disneyland and Anaheim and you will understand how this is very bad news for Disney.

 

[Lilofan]

Actually this wouldn't be a win for Disney. They're day to day business would get much more difficult. All all of the tax implications aside, if RCID is repealed, everything they build, all of their food locations, etc. comes under the scrutiny of county regulators. How that plays out comes down to some intangibles I think. Some have said, and I'm sure it's true, that there are those that see Disney is a favorable light for what they bring to the economy. However, the inverse is also true. There are some that lament Disney's outsized influence in the community and state that would relish the opportunity to stick it to the mouse a bit. Also keep in mind Disney's recent efforts to keep people on property therefore siphoning off dollars from reaching the local economy. Another X factor would be why they got there in the first place. Disney stuck it nose in where it didn't belong and came out against, and stated it was their mission to help repeal, a piece of legislation that is broadly popular. 57-65% of American approve according to polls. I'd imagine there are some county regulators who are not too fond of that move and could get very tick-tack with Disney in inspections and red tape.

I've seen it happen. There was a club in my neighborhood that the township wasn't fond of and wanted gone. It existed because it was grandfathered in from newer ordinances. The club renovated their kitchen, but the inspectors got so nitpicky with every little detail that the brand new kitchen never reopened because all of the changes the inspectors wanted would have been so expensive.

Another anecdotal piece of evidence is that a former cast member told me they knew a Disney chef who got transferred to Golden Oak for a while. The chef said dealing with the county regulators was a nightmare and made his job 10x harder than it was on property.

Now imagine that in every food location across Disney property. Imagine building/renovation projects having inspectors who get tick tack and forcing constant changes. Disney's life will not be rosy under the county's thumb. Now this is all speculation, but it's very plausible. Don't underestimate government bureaucracy.

Dealing with counties is like dealing with 10 staff members all part of changing one light bulb.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Well... Disney picked a fight and now they're getting punched back. Hard to feel sorry for them.

Feel sorry for Disney? LOL, when RCID gets removed, Disney can DUMP a 2 BILLION debt on to the taxpayers!
And the law that started this mess will be probably be overturned eventually.
Disney Wins again.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Ironically, Disney wins big time when RCID is removed.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

I’m trying to see how this hurts Disney - outside of lack of special treatment and financing capabilities.

The two biggest ways it hurts Disney?

1. They will need to get county approval on infrastructure projects and the county approval process will almost assuredly not be as quick as it was getting approval from RCID, and

2. Since RCID was basically controlled by Disney, they could control the fees for basic services, including building plan approval. Now, there is nothing preventing the counties from assessing enormous fees to make Disney foot the bill for the general public. For example, there is nothing preventing Orange County Florida from creating a fee structure where the entity seeking building permit approval must pay a fee commensurate with the number of man hours spent by the county in the permit approval process for that particular permit. That way, the more time and county government services Disney uses, the more Disney pays to the county government in fees. And it definitely won't be less than they pay to RCID.

And of course, this doesn't even address the permits the county denies because **INSERT NONSENSE BUREAUCRATIC REASON HERE**

 

[freedining]

RCID going away. Does that mean... the horror... normal green road signs?

RCID may just be the start. Don’t want to be treated as a political organization? Don’t be political. If Disney continues to act as a lobbying arm for the DNC, they should expect much more pushback.

Americans with different views are not evil. Stop treating them that way. They’re potential customers. Try finding a way to respect their views, too.

 

[Tamandua]

To the people who think this is good for Disney, you're in denial. If this would have saved Disney a single penny, they would have lobbied for this change themselves long ago. The spin on this story is crazy.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Well... Disney picked a fight and now they're getting punched back. Hard to feel sorry for them.

Yeah, governments punishing speech is no big deal.