Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[G00fyDad]

Highly respected Johns Hopkins University says the draconian lockdowns has little for no impact on the Coronavirus.

They would have had an impact if everybody had actually participated in the lockdowns. Unfortunately only about 30% of people (a pure estimate on my part based on the number of people that were still out running around to the stores when they locked things down in my state) actually participated. The other 70% went about life as usual as much as they could getting mad every single time something was closed or they couldn't do something they normally did and acting like it was some violation of their civil liberties.

(Rant)
My daughter worked for a collection agency at the time and her boss told all of them that they will refuse to shut down because this is America and you can't tell an American they have to shut their business down. She made every single one of them still come into work. Granted, my daughter was happy to go to work but it was in an office crammed full of people with no one wearing masks. A collection agency. How is that an essential business?

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Preliminary data indicate COVID-19 vaccines remain effective against severe disease and hospitalisation caused by the Omicron variant | European Medicines Agency (EMA)

www.ema.europa.eu

" Data from South Africa indicate that people who have received two doses of a COVID-19 vaccine have up to 70% protection for hospitalisation;1 similar data from the UK shows that while protection declines a few months after vaccination, protection from hospitalisation rises again to 90% after a booster shot.2"

Thanks. So looks like it’s 70% vs. 90%.

 

[Disstevefan1]

They would have had an impact if everybody had actually participated in the lockdowns. Unfortunately only about 30% of people (a pure estimate on my part based on the number of people that were still out running around to the stores when they locked things down in my state) actually participated. The other 70% went about life as usual as much as they could getting mad every single time something was closed or they couldn't do something they normally did and acting like it was some violation of their civil liberties.

(Rant)
My daughter worked for a collection agency at the time and her boss told all of them that they will refuse to shut down because this is America and you can't tell an American they have to shut their business down. She made every single one of them still come into work. Granted, my daughter was happy to go to work but it was in an office crammed full of people with no one wearing masks. A collection agency. How is that an essential business?

Essential is different for everyone. I guess a job is essential if it means the difference between living indoors and eating VS. homelessness and hungry.

 

[JoeCamel]

Thanks. So looks like it’s 70% vs. 90%.

Right, I believe Pfizer checked at the beginning of Omicron to see if they had to develop a new vaccine for it and found about 70% effectiveness against Omicron vs ~90% against the Alpha variant and released their data.

 

[Nubs70]

Is study just about the lockdowns that occurred vs results or does it cover how the lockdowns were done and the other actions implemented during that time?

I would argue we didn't really "lockdown", at least not how some people seem to talk about it. We also didn't do most (any?) of the actions that we should have done with the time a lockdown would buy us.

So, a study that just says "based on the poorly implemented lockdowns and complete lack of using the time they gain to create additional effective actions, they didn't do much" isn't exactly surprising.

I would completely agree that we didn't create great long term impacts based on how lockdowns were implemented in the US. That doesn't mean we should never lockdown again if that's the correct action for a situation, but that we should do it better and fix the things that were done wrong this time.

For the current COVID response, I cannot imagine any new situation that would call for a lockdown again. It would have to be a variant that's a complete vaccine/prior infection escape and as infectious and spreading as fast as it was at the start. Effectively like starting over with a completely different virus. Without that, we're not where we were back then, we've got better tools, and we don't need to buy any time to create those tools.

March 2020 was when masks didn't work, Amazon deliveries were wiped down, playgrounds were closed, fishing was illegal, golfing was banned and I went to a black market barber.

 

[Nubs70]

They would have had an impact if everybody had actually participated in the lockdowns.

Did it work in Australia?

 

[Lilofan]

Did it work in Australia?

Don't recall with strict country wide lock downs in 2020, Australia had one of the fewest covid deaths during that time? Let that sink in.

 

[Club Cooloholic]

They would have had an impact if everybody had actually participated in the lockdowns. Unfortunately only about 30% of people (a pure estimate on my part based on the number of people that were still out running around to the stores when they locked things down in my state) actually participated. The other 70% went about life as usual as much as they could getting mad every single time something was closed or they couldn't do something they normally did and acting like it was some violation of their civil liberties.

(Rant)
My daughter worked for a collection agency at the time and her boss told all of them that they will refuse to shut down because this is America and you can't tell an American they have to shut their business down. She made every single one of them still come into work. Granted, my daughter was happy to go to work but it was in an office crammed full of people with no one wearing masks. A collection agency. How is that an essential business?

I know someone who once had to keep working at a liquor store in a hurricane evacuation zone....the workers all stayed till the police finally said they had to shut down. Who says Americans are lazy?

 

[runnsally]

In case anyone cares, just got back from WDW and indoor mask compliance was near 100%. Also plenty of hand sanitizer locations. Some of the plexiglass dividers are a bit silly, but overall, a nice balance between safety and the experience. Well done, Disney.

 

[danlb_2000]

Did it work in Australia?

Something worked in Australia, they rank 155th in deaths per capita, US ranks 18th.

 

[Prince-1]

Did it work in Australia?

When they originally had their lockdown in place they were the envy of many countries. Sorry Nubs, another swing and a miss.

 

[Vitamin Dee]

Looking at what was posted yesterday. That’s the point. Parents like you will simply wait for the final data. They expect that. Based on the low uptake of the 5-11 shot, they expect the vast majority of parents won’t get their kids vaccinated at all. However, there is a small percentage of parents that will not commit to what you and everyone else wants… learning to live with Covid… until their kids can be vaccinated. And this group is willing to get a jump start on the vaccination schedule.

The families with someone immunocompromised, the families of front line workers in public health, healthcare, teachers and other professions that want either vaccine availability or mitigation. Since everyone else has decided no more mitigation, they are making the vaccine available to those who would choose it.

There are two elements in the vaccine trials. Safety and efficacy. They are confident from the first study and additional data out of Europe where they have vaccinated young kids, that they have satisfied safety concerns. The lay people that are nervous that a third dose might reveal some safety concern the first two didn’t were unlikely to get their child vaccinated right away anyway. So then that leaves VE and the risk of needing additional, reformulated shots later. But since this group is expected to be small, and from the super pro-vax group they will get those shots for their kids too. There is the risk of harming confidence, but pragmatically… that ship sailed.

If 5-11 uptake showed improvement over time they might not take this calculated risk. Given how poor that rate is they have decided there is more to be gained by satisfying the parents who have concerns about their unvaccinated kids being in a world without mitigation. Other parents have already decided to accept the risk of Covid infection for their kids. There is no expected path where delaying the former’s jump start results in the latter vaccinating their kids in significantly increased numbers. This is what “living with Covid” looks like.

If you are uncomfortable, than you just wait for the full data.

Edit to add: allowing parents the choice to jump start, effectively makes it function as an expanded trial. The parents with kids in the trial knew the risks that from a VE perspective the vaccine might not work, and that was okay by society's standards. Now they are giving more parents that choice given we are swiftly moving to no mitigation.

This is a fantastic post/explanation. The under 5s in my family will be at the front of the line for the exact reasons you list. We have no concerns about safety and if the efficacy does turn out to be less than optimal, worse case is we wasted 30 minutes.

 

[Andrew C]

Something worked in Australia, they rank 155th in deaths per capita, US ranks 18th.

Some of their actions would have been illegal here. They are also an island that was able to stop all travel in. They are not center of the world like the US. They have drawn a hard line for the entire pandemic, up until recently when they realize the zero Covid goal won’t happen. Also, they are healthier in general. Their vaccination rate is decent too. Around 79% I think. Bottom line, it’s hard to compare. They did what they thought was best. People can praise them for that. Or do the opposite.

 

[correcaminos]

In case anyone cares, just got back from WDW and indoor mask compliance was near 100%. Also plenty of hand sanitizer locations. Some of the plexiglass dividers are a bit silly, but overall, a nice balance between safety and the experience. Well done, Disney.

I dislike the plexiglass in places like Three Caballeros. But otherwise most wasn't bad or in awful places. I do wish that would all go though.

Yesterday's school numbers I don't think was a glitch. We only had 2 today. Keep in mind we had double digits per day at school for a long time. One classroom notification but when my kid has no clue who is sick, we assume it's no one near. Some of his classes even split into groups (like choir and band) so he'd be clueless about who it is.

Our school mandate for masks outside of school hours is expected to expire on the 8th. I would be shocked if it stays. We're also closed tomorrow, but for ice risks. Everyone in the area AFAIK is off - even the "we refuse to close because we're so tiny and all can walk" district. Snow is one thing, ice... blech. Hate it.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Some of their actions would have been illegal here. They are also an island that was able to stop all travel in. They are not center of the world like the US. They have drawn a hard line for the entire pandemic, up until recently when they realize the zero Covid goal won’t happen. Also, they are healthier in general. Their vaccination rate is decent too. Around 79% I think. Bottom line, it’s hard to compare. They did what they thought was best. People can praise them for that. Or do the opposite.

The actions wouldn’t be illegal if they were an “emergency order”

There is no reason the USA couldn’t have done what Australia did. But I agree that would be too far. I think many places in California is going too far right now requiring boosters to see a theatre show.

 

[Nubs70]

Something worked in Australia, they rank 155th in deaths per capita, US ranks 18th.

Sure stopped the Omicron surge

 

[Andrew C]

The actions wouldn’t be illegal if they were an “emergency order”

There is no reason the USA couldn’t have done what Australia did. But I agree that would be too far. I think many places in California is going too far right now requiring boosters to see a theatre show.

There are many reasons, well, depending on which action specifically. But what’s done is done now.

 

[danlb_2000]

Sure stopped the Omicron surge

Maybe not stopped but at the peak of Omicron, Australia was seeing 233 cases per million whereas the US was seeing 400 per million.

 

[Archie123]

Sure stopped the Omicron surge

Moving the goalposts on your own argument.

 

[Incomudro]

Your belief that boosters are not needed for your sons literally conflict with your ongoing battle cry that we should all work harder to be more healthy as a whole, using PRE-EMPTIVE measures.

Can’t have it both ways…

Yes I can have it both ways.
They are healthy people.
Their age alone makes them a negligible risk for a serious outcome with covid.
Now they are double vaxxed, so their risk is even lower.
Couple that with Omicron which presents essentially no serious risk to them even if they weren't vaccinated.