Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Trauma]

https://sites.krieger.jhu.edu/iae/files/2022/01/A-Literature-Review-and-Meta-Analysis-of-the-Effects-of-Lockdowns-on-COVID-19-Mortality.pdf

How about you consider the science instead ?

 

[lazyboy97o]

Thanks, I wasn't aware that medical care was being restricted like that in the UK, in the US there was always an exception to lockdowns for medical care. I personally put off seeing my dentists for a cleaning because I was concerned about infection, but my dentist was open and I could have gone if I had wanted to.

And we’ve since seen care delayed, diverted and denied in places with little to no restrictions.

 

[Trauma]

What does this have to do with a study out of Johns Hopkins about lockdowns?

When this gets looked back on they will be wrong about the lockdowns, wrong about closing the schools and wrong about masking.

All while continuing to tell people how stupid they are.

 

[nickys]

Yeah my worry here today is that we'll get more ice than snow. Yuck I hate ice. I'm not a fan of winter but we rarely get worrisome ice, but like usual we could get 0.1inch or we could get 1/2 inch or more. I wouldn't mind a 'snow' day though. Me getting a real birthday cake is on hold until after the mess is over as I don't want my spouse heading out in ice. Snow would be okay

Wow, I am so very sorry. Do know that here it was no where near as long and honestly this is really hard to read about. I am sorry for your kid going through it all too as that's no fun. Even our vets were only out a little. My one cat (orange girl) has allergy issues and while the super special testing was left aside, we've been able to treat it well. I decided not to do a skin prick test on her anyway as it's rather serious to do requiring her to be put under anesthesia, but that was literally the only thing on hold and even then just temporarily like a few months. Like I said the one shot for my kid was delayed but timing was just bad and after a while we decided to delay it to regular appointment in December of 2020.

I had 2 regular mamos both in 2020 (Oct even) and 2021 a year later. Unknowingly my one mamo might have been bad to do as it was only 2 weeks post 2nd shot but all was okay.

I am truly sorry yours was messed up for so long.

The vets continued, albeit you handed over your pet to them and waited outside. What was hard though was having to make the decision to let the vet and the nurse on duty put our elderly cat to sleep. The option was for them to have given her the injection and then put her back in the carry basket for us to take to the car. Seemed like too much trauma for her, and us to then have to take her back.

 

[nickys]

All of which pales into insignificance to the lockdown rules that stopped people travelling to be with a dying relative. Or where they had to have their final conversation via zoom. Or even where a child died without a parent with them, and yes I do mean an under 18yo.

And that is why people are so angry right now here. Which is all I will say.

 

[correcaminos]

The vets continued, albeit you handed over your pet to them and waited outside. What was hard though was having to make the decision to let the vet and the nurse on duty put our elderly cat to sleep. The option was for them to have given her the injection and then put her back in the carry basket for us to take to the car. Seemed like too much trauma for her, and us to then have to take her back.

Our vets were shut down for a while. We did the same as you for a while after. Handed them outside to someone. I hated that with my orangie girl. She freaks when I am not there. Some cats bond to other cats, mine bonded to me. Part of why I chose to put things off until I had thought about it and tried other options first (still trying other options now to this day).

I am so sorry you went through that with your cat. Ours made exceptions to their rules (and they were their rules) at times. We lost our old girl in July last year, but that's when cases were low and we went inside even without masks (cases were that low). Our vet also gave options for at home visits for end of life. Again I am so very sorry about your kitty. It is so very hard to go through never mind a pandemic.

 

[mmascari]

https://sites.krieger.jhu.edu/iae/files/2022/01/A-Literature-Review-and-Meta-Analysis-of-the-Effects-of-Lockdowns-on-COVID-19-Mortality.pdf

How about you consider the science instead ?

Is study just about the lockdowns that occurred vs results or does it cover how the lockdowns were done and the other actions implemented during that time?

I would argue we didn't really "lockdown", at least not how some people seem to talk about it. We also didn't do most (any?) of the actions that we should have done with the time a lockdown would buy us.

So, a study that just says "based on the poorly implemented lockdowns and complete lack of using the time they gain to create additional effective actions, they didn't do much" isn't exactly surprising.

I would completely agree that we didn't create great long term impacts based on how lockdowns were implemented in the US. That doesn't mean we should never lockdown again if that's the correct action for a situation, but that we should do it better and fix the things that were done wrong this time.

For the current COVID response, I cannot imagine any new situation that would call for a lockdown again. It would have to be a variant that's a complete vaccine/prior infection escape and as infectious and spreading as fast as it was at the start. Effectively like starting over with a completely different virus. Without that, we're not where we were back then, we've got better tools, and we don't need to buy any time to create those tools.

 

[jinx8402]

I'll tell you why timing studies weren't included. They would have blown out their findings. From the analysis about timing studies:

We have seen no studies which we believe credibly separate the effect of early lockdown from the effect of early voluntary behavior changes. Instead, the estimates in these studies capture the effects of lockdowns and voluntary behavior changes. As Herby (2021) illustrates, voluntary behavior changes are essential to a society’s response to an pandemic and can account for up to 90% of societies’ total response to the pandemic. Including these studies will greatly overestimate the effect of lockdowns, and, hence, we chose not to include studies focusing on timing of lockdowns in our review.

Ah, so there it is. So just because groups of people did all of the things a lockdown accomplishes on their own vs a mandated lockdown, it was excluded. But if the goal was to really see if these steps reduced mortality, then they should absolutely be included.

 

[danlb_2000]

And we’ve since seen care delayed, diverted and denied in places with little to no restrictions.

Yeah, I think the pandemic itself had a much bigger impact on care then the lockdowns.

 

[danlb_2000]

Disputing it with further evidence, further studies, expert analysis, etc. is one thing, and of course is fine. But blowing it off simply because a news agency you don't like wrote an article about it is just silly.

So you are not the least bit curious as to why a paper that looks at studies to conclude that lockdowns don't work, explicitly states that it excluded a few studies that showed the opposite?

 

[danlb_2000]

All of which pales into insignificance to the lockdown rules that stopped people travelling to be with a dying relative. Or where they had to have their final conversation via zoom. Or even where a child died without a parent with them, and yes I do mean an under 18yo.

And that is why people are so angry right now here. Which is all I will say.

Mitigations strategies for medical facilities gets into an even more complicated discussion then strategies for other types of businesses.

 

[danlb_2000]

Why not? It is an important statistic.

Because mortality is the only negative outcome from infection.

 

[Andrew C]

I'll tell you why timing studies weren't included. They would have blown out their findings. From the analysis about timing studies:


Ah, so there it is. So just because groups of people did all of the things a lockdown accomplishes on their own vs a mandated lockdown, it was excluded. But if the goal was to really see if these steps reduced mortality, then they should absolutely be included.

But why can't lockdowns on their own show effectiveness, if they are supposedly effective?

Does this not then show that voluntary measures are more dramatic?

 

[Andrew C]

Because mortality is the only negative outcome from infection.

Someone can do a study on hospitalizations then? You need to pick something to focus on...

 

[mmascari]

Yeah, I think the pandemic itself had a much bigger impact on care then the lockdowns.

Nope, no pandemic impact at all. It's just lockdowns, masks, distance, capacity, cleaning those are the ONLY thing that created any impact.

No actual impact from the virus at all.

Nope, nope, nope, none at all.

 

[danlb_2000]

Someone can do a study on hospitalizations then? You need to pick something to focus on...

But you just implied that hospitalization was unimportant only mortality mattered.

 

[Andrew C]

But you just implied that hospitalization was unimportant only mortality mattered.

No I didn't. I said mortality is an important stat so it is worth focusing on.

 

[lazyboy97o]

So you are not the least bit curious as to why a paper that looks at studies to conclude that lockdowns don't work, explicitly states that it excluded a few studies that showed the opposite?

There’s still something that has caused the United States to have such different outcomes and it’s not just because we’re a bunch of fatties. There’s also the issue of enforcement. A bucket full of holes won’t hold water, but that doesn’t mean buckets can’t hold water.

 

[Andrew C]

So you are not the least bit curious as to why a paper that looks at studies to conclude that lockdowns don't work, explicitly states that it excluded a few studies that showed the opposite?

Sure I am curious. I am totally open to other studies and expert articles related to this topic.

Are you curious as to why studies prior to this specific pandemic led the WHO and others in the scientific community to state that lockdowns are not an effective pandemic strategy? Based on your posts, I think you are.

 

[danlb_2000]

There’s still something that has caused the United States to have such different outcomes and it’s not just because we’re a bunch of fatties. There’s also the issue of enforcement. A bucket full of holes won’t hold water, but that doesn’t mean buckets can’t hold water.

Yeah, bottom line is that what happened over the past two years was very complex and it's going to take a long time to figure out the answers, if we ever do.