EPCOT Guardians of the Galaxy Cosmic Rewind attraction confirmed for Epcot

[ChrisFL]

I'm guessing we SHOULD get a pretty good pre-show seeing as how much of the building is dedicated to it (I believe)

 

[UNCgolf]

People wanted a greater variety of rides. Anyone who thinks most people would’ve wanted World of Motion over Test Track is lying to themselves or out of touch with reality. Yeah, Disney had a number of misfires after that, but most of those were backed by sponsors who also saw the market for more active, thrilling rides.

Additionally @yensidtlaw1969 , attendance rose throughout the mid 90s until 1998, the year Animal Kingdom opened, and fell proportionately with MK and DHS. The attendance numbers don’t really support the argument.

If the people who prefer Test Track were going to go to Disney anyways, and the people who prefer rides like World of Motion stop going because Disney eliminated them, then that's a mistake because you've lost customers. Looking at individual rides in a vacuum isn't all that useful when it comes to overall theme park business.

I'm not saying that actually happened -- I'm merely pointing out that more people wanting a certain type of ride doesn't necessarily inform the proper strategy to maximize business. There are plenty of people who would like it if Disney tore down most of their rides and replaced them with roller coasters, but you wouldn't find many people who think that would be a smart decision.

Personally speaking, I've been to Disney twice in the past decade, and the second time was mainly because my GF wanted to go. If something closer to original EPCOT still existed, full of those kinds of rides and activities, I would absolutely go to Disney more often.

 

[DCBaker]

 

[Casper Gutman]

People wanted a greater variety of rides. Anyone who thinks most people would’ve wanted World of Motion over Test Track is lying to themselves or out of touch with reality. Yeah, Disney had a number of misfires after that, but most of those were backed by sponsors who also saw the market for more active, thrilling rides.

Additionally @yensidtlaw1969 , attendance rose throughout the mid 90s until 1998, the year Animal Kingdom opened, and fell proportionately with MK and DHS. The attendance numbers don’t really support the argument.

I seriously doubt your assessment. Test Track was and is a fun but lackluster ride, with a weak premise and show section and mediocre, brief thrill component. WoM was a witty, cartoon-y AA-heavy ride akin to Pirates. I suspect you could find a significant number of guests who would welcome Pirates replacement with a shorter, thrill-centered ride, but I doubt they would be a majority.

Put it this way - a lot of lifelong Disney fans (myself included), folks who visit too often and buy too much merchandise, were forged in the fires of classic EPCOT - much more, even, then MK. How many lifelong fans is modern EPCOT forging? Put another way, folks are (foolishly) queuing for seven hours to buy a plastic bucket that looks like a character from a ride that was destroyed over two decades ago. How long would the line be for a Mission: Space bucket?

Classic EPCOT died for a lot of reasons unrelated to its popularity. The sponsorship issue has already been pointed out. Another factor was Universal’s opening causing a panicked and misguided Eisner to feel EPCOT needed to be more “90s” - more hip, thrilling, xtreme, teen-oriented. It was stupid, but a shocking number of changes in the parks - Pandora, Superstar Limo, the entirety of MGM, SWL, the defunct festival center - can be traced to the CEO’s ego, and this was one.

 

[retr0gate]

In defense of cosmic rewind, I don't think it's fair to say that it will only be a 4 minute experience. By that logic, you can argue the same for Universe of Energy. It was 90% preshow / show and 10% actual ride. I love EPCOT and I'm not saying UoE had to go entirely, but that attraction (at least, the Ellen version) was one of my least favorite things in that park because those 45 minutes DRAGGED. The only part I actually looked forward to was the 5 minute portion of the ride that actually took you through the primeval world sets. I would've been in full support of a film update alongside a proper overhaul of the pavilion, but given the current circumstances, I'm reserving my judgment for when Cosmic Rewind actually opens.

It probably won't be as long of an experience as UoE, but I'm predicting it will be close. Just because it's a rollercoaster doesn't mean people will be in and out of the building in 10 minutes (wait times aside). After all, I wouldn't say Rise of the Resistance starts when you sit in the prison transport. The preshow(s) are all an essential part of the attraction, and altogether it's about a 20 minute experience. Given that most of the original UoE building is being repurposed for the preshow/queue, I'd imagine that we'll see something similar here, if not longer. Now, other pavilions that were replaced with shorter rides/experiences are a different story, but when it comes to UoE and Cosmic Rewind I don't think the whole "45 minute attraction turning into a 5 minute attraction" argument lines up.

 

[Disstevefan1]

In defense of cosmic rewind, I don't think it's fair to say that it will only be a 4 minute experience. By that logic, you can argue the same for Universe of Energy. It was 90% preshow / show and 10% actual ride. I love EPCOT and I'm not saying UoE had to go entirely, but that attraction (at least, the Ellen version) was one of my least favorite things in that park because those 45 minutes DRAGGED. The only part I actually looked forward to was the 5 minute portion of the ride that actually took you through the primeval world sets. I would've been in full support of a film update alongside a proper overhaul of the pavilion, but given the current circumstances, I'm reserving my judgment for when Cosmic Rewind actually opens.

It probably won't be as long of an experience as UoE, but I'm predicting it will be close. Just because it's a rollercoaster doesn't mean people will be in and out of the building in 10 minutes (wait times aside). After all, I wouldn't say Rise of the Resistance starts when you sit in the prison transport. The preshow(s) are all an essential part of the attraction, and altogether it's about a 20 minute experience. Given that most of the original UoE building is being repurposed for the preshow/queue, I'd imagine that we'll see something similar here, if not longer. Now, other pavilions that were replaced with shorter rides/experiences are a different story, but when it comes to UoE and Cosmic Rewind I don't think the whole "45 minute attraction turning into a 5 minute attraction" argument lines up.

I know Folks generally do not like re-skins of attractions but I wish Ellen would have been a re-skin, keeping the original ride system.

 

[retr0gate]

I know Folks generally do not like re-skins of attractions but I wish Ellen would have been a re-skin, keeping the original ride system.

I completely agree. I think the ride system was phenomenal but severely underutilized. There was just not going on visually, which made sense seeing that the main focus was the film, but as the ride became more and more outdated I think it just needed SOMETHING more. What that something is remains to be seen. I always thought that end portion of Ellen's Energy Adventure where you pass by like 3-4 screens of Alex Trebek, Ellen and "Stupid Judy" doing absolutely nothing while the Jeopardy theme plays was a colossal waste of space.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

Wanting the front half of the park to have more than a combined 45 minutes of ride time automatically means I want the park to become a museum?

I can want Disney to be building longer attractions than they are without insisting they reconstruct everything they closed - which I think you'll find is actually how most people who lament the loss of the Future World classics feel. It's not about restoration, it's about genuinely improving. Mission: Space wasn't a fair trade for Horizons, and if they were going to close Horizons then they should have built something that was. Groundbreaking and long need not be mutually exclusive.

If you knew your EPCOT Center history you'd know that those rides were not closed because they were boring, which really is a myth. Most of the early Future World attractions were shuttered because they had sponsors who paid for attractions to be built at rarely seen scales in terms of building, ride systems, capacity, and show elements, and once the sponsors left Disney wasn't interested in maintaining many of those expensive pieces on their own dime. So they replaced them with shorter, less unique, and less expensive attractions. The park's critical and financial peak was in the early 90's, and was most popular in its lifetime when most of these attractions were still intact, so it doesn't really bear out that they were closed because people didn't like them - the park has never done as well since they left.

So, if you find the rhetoric weird, maybe it's because that's not actually how anyone sees it but you.

Imagine the uproar from tearing out Pirates of the Caribbean, the Haunted Mansion, and It's a Small World from the Magic Kingdom. Not to mention replacing them with 3 minute thrill rides. This is what happened at EPCOT. World of Motion, Horizons, and Journey Into Imagination were E Ticket, park defining, epic attractions. That is why there is a continued uproar.

 

[DisneyAndUniversalFan]

If the people who prefer Test Track were going to go to Disney anyways, and the people who prefer rides like World of Motion stop going because Disney eliminated them, then that's a mistake because you've lost customers. Looking at individual rides in a vacuum isn't all that useful when it comes to overall theme park business.

I'm not saying that actually happened -- I'm merely pointing out that more people wanting a certain type of ride doesn't necessarily inform the proper strategy to maximize business. There are plenty of people who would like it if Disney tore down most of their rides and replaced them with roller coasters, but you wouldn't find many people who think that would be a smart decision.

Personally speaking, I've been to Disney twice in the past decade, and the second time was mainly because my GF wanted to go. If something closer to original EPCOT still existed, full of those kinds of rides and activities, I would absolutely go to Disney more often.

Nailed it.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I'm guessing we SHOULD get a pretty good pre-show seeing as how much of the building is dedicated to it (I believe)

I would anticipate multiple pre-shows like Rise of the Resistance. The budget is consistent, if not higher.

 

[tommyhawkins]

It still doesn’t really add up. Regional amusement parks build entire coasters for mere tens of millions so there’s no reason the buildings, track length, capacity, etc. infrastructure-wise should be driving up the cost to record heights. Disney has always built separate stations, and Everest has similarly high capacity. I have to imagine more of the cost was sunk into developing the technology and show scenes or lost somewhere else along the process. If it’s the bones of the ride, then that’s extra troubling.

Im not sure Everest is the example you want should use

My estimate of capacity is incredibly conservative as I calculated 35 sec dispatches, 30 sec dispatches (2400/hr) still means each station has 1 min to fill and dispatch an empty train (even Seven Dwarves the slowest dispatch ive ever seen is 80secs between trains), see below:

Estimates ive seen for Everest actually have it at 1600 OHRC and 1800THRC.

As far as im aware, Disney only *admitted* to $100m for Everest, I'm sure I heard it could be closer to $250m which would put it in the $350m+ ball park for today's money

 

[Casper Gutman]

I would anticipate multiple pre-shows like Rise of the Resistance. The budget is consistent, if not higher.

I would bet on museum-esque narration in the queue, alla Dinosaur, and a projected pre-show with the Gaurdians. The budget is consistent with Disney being increasingly bad at running a theme park.

 

[sedati]

Imagine the uproar from tearing out Pirates of the Caribbean, the Haunted Mansion, and It's a Small World from the Magic Kingdom. Not to mention replacing them with 3 minute thrill rides. This is what happened at EPCOT. World of Motion, Horizons, and Journey Into Imagination were E Ticket, park defining, epic attractions. That is why there is a continued uproar.

Except that Pirates, Mansion, and Small World have proven enduring popularity. It was disheartening to watch the three rides you mention all become walk-ons in a matter of years (all our trips in the 80s were in peak July/August).

 

[Casper Gutman]

Except that Pirates, Mansion, and Small World have proven enduring popularity. It was disheartening to watch the three rides you mention all become walk-ons in a matter of years (all our trips in the 80s were in peak July/August).

Sorry, this isn’t true. Before Disney horribly broke the parks, back when park capacity was capable of handling attendance levels, Small World and PotC were just as frequently walk on as the EPCOT rides. And if the classic EPCOT rides existed in the current broken parks, they’d have waits similar to the MK omnis.

By the way, it’s just hilarious to pretend Journey lacked “enduring popularity” in a week featuring seven hour lines for plastic Figment buckets. At a festival featuring huge amounts of Figment - statues, wall decorations, merchandise.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

Except that Pirates, Mansion, and Small World have proven enduring popularity. It was disheartening to watch the three rides you mention all become walk-ons in a matter of years (all our trips in the 80s were in peak July/August).

With no additions and upgrades to these attractions (and a little promotion) and no expansions to their respective pavilions, it felt as if Disney left things to rot. It would have taken more thought to add Test Track and Mission:Space and more creativity. These added to their locations would have kept the crowds coming.

 

[UNCgolf]

Except that Pirates, Mansion, and Small World have proven enduring popularity. It was disheartening to watch the three rides you mention all become walk-ons in a matter of years (all our trips in the 80s were in peak July/August).

All those EPCOT rides had waits that were as long or longer than Haunted Mansion and Pirates when I was there in the early-mid 90s.

That's not to say they had 60 minute waits or anything, but neither did Haunted Mansion or Pirates. They were all high capacity rides and EPCOT as a whole park had a much higher capacity than it does today, which also helped keep wait times low.

 

[Poseidon Quest]

Except that Pirates, Mansion, and Small World have proven enduring popularity. It was disheartening to watch the three rides you mention all become walk-ons in a matter of years (all our trips in the 80s were in peak July/August).

Epcot's Future World was a capacity monster though. I don't recall where I saw the assessment, but the large number of omnimovers allowed those lines to stay pretty short. From surface level research, it appears that Spaceship Earth is capable of about 2,400 riders an hour. If we assume the same or at least similar for rides like World of Motion, Horizons and JII, that's about 9,600 people riding something over the course of an hour. If we include the massive shows of Universe of Energy, loading a max of 500 every 15 minutes, in addition to whatever the capacity of Listen to the Land and the Living Seas were, all in conjunction with the distracting exhibits of Communicore/Innoventions, it's not difficult to see why lines would be short.

 

[Surferboy567]

This is probably going to sound sacrilegious, I have never had a strong connection to Universe Of Energy. I respect it and understand it has a very important part in history for EPCOT. For myself though, I only really have memories of the Ellen version (come to think of it may of been one of my first experiences with Ellen). I do enjoy elements of Universe of Energy, like I said Ellen and Bill Nye as well as the Jeopardy setup, and dinosaur segment. Beyond that though I really didn’t like the attraction and viewed it as a massive waste of space.

I remember viewing it as a 45 minute AC nap attraction. Anything they put into this space was probably going to be better then Universe of Energy (for me, I understand original EPCOT fans love it). Myself being a big Marvel fan was and am excited for Guardians. We can have the conversation all day if or if not it doesn’t fit in EPCOT (it probably doesn’t) it’s likely though that it will be leaps and bounds better then Universe of Energy.

If anything EPCOT really needs a massive “WOW” attraction (not that EPCOT doesn’t have good attractions already). Something to put it back on the map, a real showcase attraction. This has the potential to be that, it also helps that it’s a coaster something EPCOT doesn’t have.

If we can just add a few more attractions to World Showcase, fix up that crater in the middle, refurb Spaceship Earth with new effects, and fix Imagination. EPCOT would be in a much better condition then it is now. Elevating it further then what it is now, I really like EPCOT (it’s one of my favorite parks) but it can be so much better if they would just get a few more attractions.

EDIT: It always broke down as well, so even if I did want to experience it I couldn’t since I felt like it was always down.

 

[UNCgolf]

Epcot's Future World was a capacity monster though. I don't recall where I saw the assessment, but the large number of omnimovers allowed those lines to stay pretty short. From surface level research, it appears that Spaceship Earth is capable of about 2,400 riders an hour. If we assume the same or at least similar for rides like World of Motion, Horizons and JII, that's about 9,600 people riding something over the course of an hour. If we include the massive shows of Universe of Energy, loading a max of 500 every 15 minutes, in addition to whatever the capacity of Listen to the Land and the Living Seas were, all in conjunction with the distracting exhibits of Communicore/Innoventions, it's not difficult to see why lines would be short.

Don't forget about the Wonders of Life pavilion with its activities and Body Wars, as well as the post-attraction exhibits/shows at other pavilions -- especially ImageWorks and World of Motion, which had quite a lot.

 

[UNCgolf]

This is probably going to sound sacrilegious, I have never had a strong connection to Universe Of Energy. I respect it and understand it has a very important part in history for EPCOT. For myself though, I only really have memories of the Ellen version (come to think of it may of been one of my first experiences with Ellen). I do enjoy elements of Universe of Energy, like I said Ellen and Bill Nye as well as the Jeopardy setup, and dinosaur segment. Beyond that though I really didn’t like the attraction and viewed it as a massive waste of space.

I didn't have a really strong connection to Universe of Energy either -- it and Wonders of Life were my least favorite, although I still liked both.

I'm not upset that UofE itself is gone; I just think replacing it with a short Guardians of the Galaxy roller coaster is a bad move in multiple ways. I think the Guardians ride itself would probably be a great addition to DHS.