Disney Analyst
Well-Known Member
Okay so three acts:
Gather
Celebrate
Unite
Gather
Celebrate
Unite
-
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News Reflections of Earth confirmed to be replaced by Harmonious
- Thread starter wdwmagic
- Start date
Amused to Death
Well-Known Member
I'm sure you've seen people stretching their necks out to get a good look at a car accident. Or neighbors gathered together to watch a fellow neighbor's house burn to the ground. People are naturally drawn towards destruction.
Mireille
Premium Member
So when the arms on the barges inevitably start breaking down in a year or two, do they...
1) Fix them? (hahaha)
2) Remove the broken arm and leave the rest operational?
3) Leave the stationary broken arm on the barge and leave the rest operational?
4) Leave all the arms stationary?
5) Remove all the arms?
As to the show as a whole... I dunno. I went to EPCOT first in 1983, I was 10 and it left an indelible impression on me, it's my favorite of all Disney parks (that I've been to.) I get that it's not very popular amongst normies, and WDW can't cater to diehards the way that DL/DCA can at times. And I've rolled with the punches, I miss Horizons and World of Motion and I LIKED Universe of Energy; I even got to see it when the kinetic screens still worked! I didn't mind when characters started showing up for photo ops and stuff (though why they haven't tried using Figment more just baffles me.) I liked Mission Space OK (pretty bored with it now), and I get Test Track is more "thrilling" even though I find it really boring... I know things have to change, but is really-spread-out-Magic-Kingdom what everyone wants? It's run into a lot of problems Tomorrowland has always had... yesterday's tomorrow is today, and then yesterday, all too soon. So bring in the IP but where MK is about wishes and magic and dreams, Epcot should be about hope. That show did not feel hopeful to me.
1) Fix them? (hahaha)
2) Remove the broken arm and leave the rest operational?
3) Leave the stationary broken arm on the barge and leave the rest operational?
4) Leave all the arms stationary?
5) Remove all the arms?
As to the show as a whole... I dunno. I went to EPCOT first in 1983, I was 10 and it left an indelible impression on me, it's my favorite of all Disney parks (that I've been to.) I get that it's not very popular amongst normies, and WDW can't cater to diehards the way that DL/DCA can at times. And I've rolled with the punches, I miss Horizons and World of Motion and I LIKED Universe of Energy; I even got to see it when the kinetic screens still worked! I didn't mind when characters started showing up for photo ops and stuff (though why they haven't tried using Figment more just baffles me.) I liked Mission Space OK (pretty bored with it now), and I get Test Track is more "thrilling" even though I find it really boring... I know things have to change, but is really-spread-out-Magic-Kingdom what everyone wants? It's run into a lot of problems Tomorrowland has always had... yesterday's tomorrow is today, and then yesterday, all too soon. So bring in the IP but where MK is about wishes and magic and dreams, Epcot should be about hope. That show did not feel hopeful to me.
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hpyhnt 1000
Well-Known Member
Appreciate you taking the time to type this. I get what you're saying because there are some good ideas behind the show, but it's not coming through in the final product.
The disjointed nature of the score with a lot of hard cuts and fades to black makes it hard to identify themes or story. A reorganization of the middle sections by anything really -- geography, emotional theme, orchestral style, etc. -- would help.
Then, as @MisterPenguin and others have mentioned, there are some problematic song choices. Arabian Nights has known issues, and I also think I Wanna Be Like You isn't a great inclusion either. And with a lot of songs individually focus in their message (I can go the distance, how far I will go, my reflection, etc.) it undercuts the unity message the show wants to convey.
And even the closing narration is still individually focused. We've gone from RoE's, "We go on" (moving forward now as one), to Harm's "Raise your voice" (and let the world will hear your song).
As a concept, the world coming together through music is an excellent theme and one that would be great for EPCOT and World Showcase. But this show about the world coming together through Disney music is rather flawed (and arguably a bit self aggrandizing). Not that it can't work, but Harmonious isn't there in its current form.
Mac Tonight
Well-Known Member
comics101
Well-Known Member
Finally got around to giving Harmonious a watch via the Disney Parks Blog. I haven't read everyone's comments on the show, but based on the page or two I did read, I completely agree with much of the criticism it's receiving. Harmonious is pretty dang bad--it's not a "Nighttime Spectacular," it's a "Nighttime Disaster."
Here's the thing: Harmonious' problems don't stem from the inclusion of Disney IP. Would I prefer an old-school EPCOT Center-style show in the vein of ROE? Sure. With that said, IP isn't inherently bad, and if added tastefully can enhance a project--yes, even in EPCOT. The real problem with the show is the disjointed presentation and lack of connective tissue tying the whole thing together.
For starters, where is Harmonious' original theme music? Remember when, at the D23 Expo 2019, Bob Chapek introduced the new EPCOT Anthem by proclaiming that EPCOT has a "unique musical voice?" Whoever it is that wrote Chapek's introduction clearly understands the importance of music at EPCOT, so how is it that the Imagineers tasked with creating attractions don't? The show's disjointed nature and haphazard production would feel far more streamlined were an original theme written for Harmonious and played throughout. Shoot, if theme music exclusive to Harmonious is somehow cost inhibitive (I can't imagine that it is) then USE THE EPCOT ANTHEM INTRODUCED IN 2019! It's a good anthem. It would serve the purpose fine and tie the show to the park it's being presented in.
And if for some reason, every single inch of Harmonious must be drenched in Disney IP, then use Coco's "The World Es Mi Familia" as the through-line theme.
^^The lyric was practically written for a show that takes place on World Showcase Lagoon! How did they miss this?
In addition to a main theme, there really should be some form of narration throughout; something that emphasizes the importance of individuals coming together as one to make the world a better place--something that urges viewers to:
^^I'm sorry, but this really isn't hard. I'm literally sitting at a work computer during my lunchbreak coming up with this stuff, and (if I may be so bold) I honestly believe it's better than the garbage that debuted last night. Today's world is in desperate need of a little bit of corny, sentimental, old-school Disney inspiration, and EPCOT is the perfect place for them to give it to us. How do you miss that opportunity? How do you miss the chance to ask your audience to be a little better?
The next bit of criticism I have for Harmonious? The movies represented in the show could have been chosen at random. It's almost as though Imagineers hung a bunch of classic Disney movie posters on a wall and then threw darts at them while blindfolded to decide which movies would be featured. That might work okay at MK or DHS, but EPCOT has a very specific theme and purpose (a fact that Zach Riddley constantly reminds us of in his Instagram posts). If IP is going to be used at a park, it should further the park's theme and enhance the message that the park attempts to convey. Harmonious could have done this by highlighting one Disney IP per World Showcase Pavilion...Coco for Mexico; Frozen for Norway; Mulan for China; Tangled for Germany; Luca for Italy, etc. Give the selection of IP purpose and use it to tell a story.
My final criticism of Harmonious? The barges are just so grotesque. Even during the show, as they flash colored lights and shoot streams of water into the air, the barges simply aren't much to look at. They look like they belong backstage at a pop concert. Once upon a time, Disney used to hide the equipment that makes magic happen; the company prided itself on show quality and atmosphere. Today? "Welp, I guess we can plop a giant ring that looks like it's made of a recycled oil rig in the middle of World Showcase Lagoon. Guests are either too stupid to notice or too addicted to our Pixie Dust to care."
Here's the thing: Harmonious' problems don't stem from the inclusion of Disney IP. Would I prefer an old-school EPCOT Center-style show in the vein of ROE? Sure. With that said, IP isn't inherently bad, and if added tastefully can enhance a project--yes, even in EPCOT. The real problem with the show is the disjointed presentation and lack of connective tissue tying the whole thing together.
For starters, where is Harmonious' original theme music? Remember when, at the D23 Expo 2019, Bob Chapek introduced the new EPCOT Anthem by proclaiming that EPCOT has a "unique musical voice?" Whoever it is that wrote Chapek's introduction clearly understands the importance of music at EPCOT, so how is it that the Imagineers tasked with creating attractions don't? The show's disjointed nature and haphazard production would feel far more streamlined were an original theme written for Harmonious and played throughout. Shoot, if theme music exclusive to Harmonious is somehow cost inhibitive (I can't imagine that it is) then USE THE EPCOT ANTHEM INTRODUCED IN 2019! It's a good anthem. It would serve the purpose fine and tie the show to the park it's being presented in.
And if for some reason, every single inch of Harmonious must be drenched in Disney IP, then use Coco's "The World Es Mi Familia" as the through-line theme.
^^The lyric was practically written for a show that takes place on World Showcase Lagoon! How did they miss this?
In addition to a main theme, there really should be some form of narration throughout; something that emphasizes the importance of individuals coming together as one to make the world a better place--something that urges viewers to:
^^I'm sorry, but this really isn't hard. I'm literally sitting at a work computer during my lunchbreak coming up with this stuff, and (if I may be so bold) I honestly believe it's better than the garbage that debuted last night. Today's world is in desperate need of a little bit of corny, sentimental, old-school Disney inspiration, and EPCOT is the perfect place for them to give it to us. How do you miss that opportunity? How do you miss the chance to ask your audience to be a little better?
The next bit of criticism I have for Harmonious? The movies represented in the show could have been chosen at random. It's almost as though Imagineers hung a bunch of classic Disney movie posters on a wall and then threw darts at them while blindfolded to decide which movies would be featured. That might work okay at MK or DHS, but EPCOT has a very specific theme and purpose (a fact that Zach Riddley constantly reminds us of in his Instagram posts
). If IP is going to be used at a park, it should further the park's theme and enhance the message that the park attempts to convey. Harmonious could have done this by highlighting one Disney IP per World Showcase Pavilion...Coco for Mexico; Frozen for Norway; Mulan for China; Tangled for Germany; Luca for Italy, etc. Give the selection of IP purpose and use it to tell a story.My final criticism of Harmonious? The barges are just so grotesque. Even during the show, as they flash colored lights and shoot streams of water into the air, the barges simply aren't much to look at. They look like they belong backstage at a pop concert. Once upon a time, Disney used to hide the equipment that makes magic happen; the company prided itself on show quality and atmosphere. Today? "Welp, I guess we can plop a giant ring that looks like it's made of a recycled oil rig in the middle of World Showcase Lagoon. Guests are either too stupid to notice or too addicted to our Pixie Dust to care."
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SirLink
Well-Known Member
Nah you won't the fanbois/rubes will flood the thing ... they don't know quality entertainment if it bit them.
Mac Tonight
Well-Known Member
Bingo! 100% this. There was not a single second of this show that even came close to touching the hope, wonder, and Epcot-centric message contained within, We Go On.
Taking a bunch of internationally-sung and mostly "geographically non-America" Disney songs and slapping them together in some vague semblance of a show about "being united through song" does not work. That's not the way you tell a story.
But kids will love it because they'll recognize the songs from their favorite movies and the water goes whoosh!
Uh....
So, see the outline of songs below and...
I can't see how "How Far I'll Go" and "Go the Distance" are 'gathering songs.' Now, the Gathering Medley that precedes them does work as gathering instrumentals, but those two IPs shoved into that section do not.
From my work with liturgical music, I know darned well what constitutes a 'gathering song' and these ain't it. Gathering songs are invitational, they're in the third person plural, they're hortatory. They're not a pronouncement of one's personal plans or dreams. You know what would have worked? Where You Are from Moana.
In the Celebrate section, OK, got some upbeat songs there. So... we like music? That's a really weak theme. Find any well-liked song and it fits!!
And 'Arabian Nights' and 'Reflection' are not at all communal celebration songs. Only "The World es mi Familia" really plays to the theme of this section (and isn't Saludos Amigos part of that?).
For the final section, "Someday" works (see, I'm not all negative!), but, it's a bit of a ballad and should've segued into a more festive piece. Isn't part of the theme we all like to dance to great music together? That's not a dancing song. Maybe what's needed is a piece of music to bookend Harmonious just like there was for HEA.
HEA was all about the hero's journey, which is very personalistic (until they realize that finding friends/family/romance is part of their journey). Harm could have been all the communal songs in the Disney playbook. About how we're all in this together. And not, "Hey, you like music, too?!" as what binds us. We could have had both: songs with the message of community that were also pieces of good music we could all enjoy together.
disney.fandom.com
So, see the outline of songs below and...
I can't see how "How Far I'll Go" and "Go the Distance" are 'gathering songs.' Now, the Gathering Medley that precedes them does work as gathering instrumentals, but those two IPs shoved into that section do not.
From my work with liturgical music, I know darned well what constitutes a 'gathering song' and these ain't it. Gathering songs are invitational, they're in the third person plural, they're hortatory. They're not a pronouncement of one's personal plans or dreams. You know what would have worked? Where You Are from Moana.
In the Celebrate section, OK, got some upbeat songs there. So... we like music? That's a really weak theme. Find any well-liked song and it fits!!
And 'Arabian Nights' and 'Reflection' are not at all communal celebration songs. Only "The World es mi Familia" really plays to the theme of this section (and isn't Saludos Amigos part of that?).
For the final section, "Someday" works (see, I'm not all negative!), but, it's a bit of a ballad and should've segued into a more festive piece. Isn't part of the theme we all like to dance to great music together? That's not a dancing song. Maybe what's needed is a piece of music to bookend Harmonious just like there was for HEA.
HEA was all about the hero's journey, which is very personalistic (until they realize that finding friends/family/romance is part of their journey). Harm could have been all the communal songs in the Disney playbook. About how we're all in this together. And not, "Hey, you like music, too?!" as what binds us. We could have had both: songs with the message of community that were also pieces of good music we could all enjoy together.
Shows Soundtrack
- Act I: Gather
- Act II: Celebrate
- Act III: Unite
- Someday
- Epcot Anthem
HarmonioUS
Harmonious was a nighttime spectacular at EPCOT, which serves as the long-term replacement for IllumiNations: Reflections of Earth, after the interim show, Epcot Forever which concluded its run. It was originally scheduled to open in Spring 2020, but it was delayed to October 1, 2021 as part of...
disney.fandom.com
Uh....
So, see the outline of songs below and...
I can't see how "How Far I'll Go" and "Go the Distance" are 'gathering songs.' Now, the Gathering Medley that precedes them does work as gathering instrumentals, but those two IPs shoved into that section do not.
From my work with liturgical music, I know darned well what constitutes a 'gathering song' and these ain't it. Gathering songs are invitational, they're in the third person plural, they're hortatory. They're not a pronouncement of one's personal plans or dreams. You know what would have worked? Where You Are from Moana.
In the Celebrate section, OK, got some upbeat songs there. So... we like music? That's a really weak theme. Find any well-liked song and it fits!!
And 'Arabian Nights' and 'Reflection' are not at all communal celebration songs. Only "The World es mi Familia" really plays to the theme of this section (and isn't Saludos Amigos part of that?).
For the final section, "Someday" works (see, I'm not all negative!), but, it's a bit of a ballad and should've segued into a more festive piece. Isn't part of the theme we all like to dance to great music together? That's not a dancing song. Maybe what's needed is a piece of music to bookend Harmonious just like there was for HEA.
HEA was all about the hero's journey, which is very personalistic (until they realize that finding friends/family/romance is part of their journey). Harm could have been all the communal songs in the Disney playbook. About how we're all in this together. And not, "Hey, you like music, too?!" as what binds us. We could have had both: songs with the message of community that were also pieces of good music we could all enjoy together.
Shows Soundtrack
List from...
- Act I: Gather
- Act II: Celebrate
- Act III: Unite
- Someday
- Epcot Anthem
HarmonioUS
Harmonious was a nighttime spectacular at EPCOT, which serves as the long-term replacement for IllumiNations: Reflections of Earth, after the interim show, Epcot Forever which concluded its run. It was originally scheduled to open in Spring 2020, but it was delayed to October 1, 2021 as part of...
See, I interpret it as:
Gather - we are all on top of each other in World Showcase
Celebrate - we are all getting pretty darn drunk at food/wine
Unite - we all meet again at the bus stops
Makes sense!
hpyhnt 1000
Well-Known Member
I can't help but think back to the Millennium Celebration and the creative design for Tapestry of Nations. If I recall correctly, the show designers put a lot of thought into how to create a parade that could be universally understood by anyone from any culture. And they realized the best thing to do was to use as few words as possible in the music.
And it's why ToN used chants and vocal rhythms with no discernible lyrics or language. No matter your culture or background or language you spoke, you could sing and hum and dance along to the music just as well as anyone else. It's also why the puppets, while certainly human figures, didn't feature overt references to specific nations or cultures. It was all designed around a enduring spirit of humanity, around the collective human condition. It remains, in my view, one of the best examples of Disney storytelling and creativity.
That thinking and creativity is what's missing from Harmonious.
And it's why ToN used chants and vocal rhythms with no discernible lyrics or language. No matter your culture or background or language you spoke, you could sing and hum and dance along to the music just as well as anyone else. It's also why the puppets, while certainly human figures, didn't feature overt references to specific nations or cultures. It was all designed around a enduring spirit of humanity, around the collective human condition. It remains, in my view, one of the best examples of Disney storytelling and creativity.
That thinking and creativity is what's missing from Harmonious.
Mac Tonight
Well-Known Member
Sheesh. If only Disney had one singular song about how we're all in this... what's that word again???
Oh yeah...
Oh yeah...
comics101
Well-Known Member
There's one more thing I want to say regarding Harmonious and it relates to this tweet:
This take drives me insane. "If you didn't like Harmonious, it wasn't for you." Seriously? Does this mean that if a person likes Harmonious, Illuminations: ROE wasn't for them? How does that make any sense?
I see more and more Disney fans using this kind of ridiculous logic on Twitter, and it's really pathetic. The show was created to entertain as many guests that purchased a ticket to the park as is possible. That criticism of Harmonious is as loud as it is, is evidence that, as of last night, it failed in that regard.
This take drives me insane. "If you didn't like Harmonious, it wasn't for you." Seriously? Does this mean that if a person likes Harmonious, Illuminations: ROE wasn't for them? How does that make any sense?
I see more and more Disney fans using this kind of ridiculous logic on Twitter, and it's really pathetic. The show was created to entertain as many guests that purchased a ticket to the park as is possible. That criticism of Harmonious is as loud as it is, is evidence that, as of last night, it failed in that regard.
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
Take the rose-colored glasses off. ToN was a disaster for park ops, snarled traffic around World Showcase, and injured numerous performers due to design flaws. Most guests had no idea what the hell was going on. Good music, though.
mergatroid
Well-Known Member
Sorry but I love it.
Except his tweet wasn't incorrect - majority of guests will like it. They just aren't posting about it on social media.
Mac Tonight
Well-Known Member
Don't you know that Disney only makes things for people who like them?? If you don't like something, clearly it's because Disney had other guests in mind when they sat down to create it. When you do like something, that means someone was thinking about you specifically! Now don't you feel special???
comics101
Well-Known Member
That remains to be seen, I'm not so sure.
The fact remains, however, that the show was created for anyone who buys a ticket to EPCOT, including Disney die-hards and EPCOT-nostalgists. Alienating the die-hards because they only make up 10-15% of park attendance and the remaining 80%+ of guests won't have strong opinions on the show, in my opinion, probably isn't the best business strategy. When your fanbase turns against you as vehemently as Disney's has over Harmonious, there's a problem.
Sir_Cliff
Well-Known Member
I was pondering this a little further and wondering why, even if the track list had to be kept the same for some reason, no-one suggested flipping Dig a Little Deeper and the Coco segment ending with The World es mi Familia. That would have at least built from "finding who you are" to family connections (Remember Me) and then thinking of the world as one big family. That could have worked up nicely to the finale of Someday, which I also thought worked.
If you try skipping from The World es mi Familia to Someday on the YouTube videos I think the finale suddenly packs a bit of a punch. Mind you, they'd still have to change the end narration from YOU lifting YOUR voice and the whole wide world hearing it to something suggesting we're all in this together!
This show really is puzzling to me as it obviously took years and tens of millions of dollars to put together, but it seems so poorly thought through.
I know a lot of people criticise the HEA song as a "pop song", but I quite like the idea that everyone makes their own "hero's journey" through the choices they make, that this involves the connections you make with other people, and that everyone's happily ever after looks different. It's the kind of sappy Disney message for which I am a complete sucker!
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brb1006
Well-Known Member
The Millennium Celebration (1999-2000) might as well be one of the last times Disney decided to be creative with entertainment. I remember Tapestry of Nations alongside Reflections of Earth used to really fit the evening atmosphere of Epcot like a glove. Similar to Spectromagic and Wishes perfectly embodying the nighttime atmosphere of Magic Kingdom (helped that Jiminy Cricket used to host both shows).
Just look at this commercial promoting the Millennium Celebration.
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