Star Wars Land, a big mistake for DHS???

[ford91exploder]

It won't even matter as long as the land and the attractions are of high quality.

One of the most popular attractions in MK is based on a movie that released in 1946 and can only currently be seen by getting a bootlegged copy.

That @Master Yoda is the crux of the issue, Do we get the Harambe expansion or do we get NFL, If the latter it's gonna be an epic disaster worthy of Irwin Allen. If we get Harambe expansion quality I'm likely to change my opinion of the land.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

And FLOPS big, Avatar was a techincal masterwork which finally realized the promise of 3D Filmmaking just as 'The Jazz Singer' finally added working sound to movies. Avatar is almost unwatchable in 2D and that's why it had zero impact on popular culture.

People saw 'Avatar' because at the time it was an amazing cinematic experience not because it was a great movie, Unless Avatar 2.0 brings moviemaking to a new level of technology I expect it will flop because Cameron is a brilliant ENGINEER not a master STORYTELLER.

Titanic another one of Cameron's movies brought CGI into the era where it could substitute for real sets on the big screen but the story itself was formulaic but the movie itself was amazing from a tech perspective.

I would agree with most of that, especially the success of Avatar being the result of its must watch status as the new technology standard. I do disagree about Cameron not being a master storyteller. On the contrary, I would bet good money on his being being able to make a completely engrossing three hour $2 billion spectacular about himself staring at his feet. He's that good.

(And give him carte blanche on the Living Seas pavilion already!)

 

[wdwfan4ver]

Nope. Here are my 10 reasons.
1.) TDO turning down Monsters Inc. Door Coaster back in 2007 was the true mistake for DHS.
2.) Having an entire theme park focus on Indiana Jones and Star Wars limits your audience despite the fact fanbase Star Wars has.
3.) Star Wars Land actually would fit DHS since it looks like that park doing in the direction of being an IP park for things Disney owns.
4.) A 5th park would be decreasing attendance other WDW theme parks and the Orlando area can't handle another theme park after Universal builds their 3rd theme park.
5.) DHS theme was a mess even before Star Wars Land and Toy Story Land announcement due to Disney getting a rid of the live production part of the park for animation and production under Eisner.
6.) WDW is in no position for a 5th park right right now based the state of the other WDW theme parks. See the current problems for Epcot right now.
7.) Adding more shows to DHS isn't a good idea for drawing more guests in besides I think a survey would prove DHS doesn't need to add more shows. The way to handle new shows at DHS is replacing current shows.
8.) Disney's management right now wouldn't even consider doing a high-speed mag-lev train due to cost.
9.) Disney on Ice is something that shouldn't run all year round. Something like that is made to made in building that could be used for multiple forms of entertainment as a result.
10.) I don't think the Walt Disney World Company right now wouldn't even consider a 5th park after opening up Shanghai Disneyland. What I read, Shanghai has lots of work to do for increasing attendance.

 

[JIMINYCR]

Although I enjoy SW and am looking forward to its expanded attractions into DHS, I dont think Disney would ever venture to add an entire park decicated to one movie franchise. I am wondering though if they are not dedicating enough space for what they are wanting to accomplish. Seems like a lot being crammed into too limited space.
I do think a time is coming when a 5th park will be advantageous for Disney. Despite the job losses and poor economy, guests numbers have continued to grow, mostly from international guests. If and when the economy turns around, more US guests will feel confident in spending on a Disney trip, those of us going now will return to making more return trips in a year, and a 5th park will be fiscally solvent. I'm sure Disneys already running numbers and has a point where they see it to their advantage to expand in a bigger way.

 

[Magenta Panther]

One could argue (although reasonable minds can differ) that Disney's investment in the already-outdated Avatar franchise, and its inclusion of a fictional Avatar-land in a park that is otherwise solidly devoted to real animals or real locations on earth, was a mistake, both thematically and in terms of guest interest.

In contrast, I don't think anyone can straight-facedly say that taking Star Wars - a franchise that is still wildly successful and which has proved a large "draw" for HS even in small doses - and putting a land based on films in a park dedicated to Hollywood, is a financial or thematic misstep. In fact, I think that people only have the patience/interest to attend a limited number of live shows in a day, and that only adding more shows instead of more "ride"-style attractions and restaurants (both of which HS tends to lack) would not be a great investment.

I agree with the first part of your statement. Avatar Land is a joke and an obvious knee-jerk reaction to Uni's Potterland by that cement head Iger. As for Star Wars...well, the New Hope, oops, Force Awakens film's success was largely fueled by nostalgia, although Star Wars' reach and appeal is much greater than Avatar's, of course. Still, it'll be interesting to see how Rogue One performs. It might do very well. But it'll be interesting...

 

[sxeensweet]

They could say it was a mistake while not realizing that Beastly Kingdom was once a thing.

And AK was always meant to have a "fantasy" section since on the sign at the entrance there is a dragon on it for the fantasy aspect so it's not out of place. Also if you've seen the movie it totally fits as it's based on nature, earths elements, and Fantasy. Plus it is not totally outdated because more movies are still coming out of the Avatar franchise (although pushed back). Anyhow I can't wait to see it and think it will be awesome and im not even a big Avatar fan but still can't wait.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Also the hotel quote is bogus.

So we've got moar hotels coming?

 

[marni1971]

So we've got moar hotels coming?

Moar?

I meant the occupancy claim. But yes, more resorts are also planned.

 

[networkpro]

One could argue (although reasonable minds can differ) that Disney's investment in the already-outdated Avatar franchise, and its inclusion of a fictional Avatar-land in a park that is otherwise solidly devoted to real animals or real locations on earth, was a mistake, both thematically and in terms of guest interest.

In contrast, I don't think anyone can straight-facedly say that taking Star Wars - a franchise that is still wildly successful and which has proved a large "draw" for HS even in small doses - and putting a land based on films in a park dedicated to Hollywood, is a financial or thematic misstep. In fact, I think that people only have the patience/interest to attend a limited number of live shows in a day, and that only adding more shows instead of more "ride"-style attractions and restaurants (both of which HS tends to lack) would not be a great investment.

Outdated franchise ? You could say that about alot of the ride attractions as there was only one feature about them. Theres a production schedule out to 2023 for more installments of Avatar.

Doesnt matter the genre, its all fictional story based.

As to MOAR hotels, goodness Universal is building more and there are scads off the properties. You increase supply way over demand and then your carry cost is based on untenable occupancy rates. A little downturn and suddenly you have to try and turn them into timeshares (or DVC your name choice)

 

[AndyS2992]

I was just reading an article dealing with the lack of new Disney Hotels

What? The one thing Disney has been throwing cash at is building new hotels and expansions to existing ones. In the last few years we have had:
-Art of Animation Resort
-Bay Lake Tower
-Villas at Disney's Grand Floridian Resort
-Kidani Village expansion
-Four Seasons Orlando in WDW
And probably one or two others I'm forgetting. The last thing WDW needs right now is more hotels.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

The last thing WDW needs right now is more hotels.

Wrong. Room occupancy rates are extremely strong per the last several earnings releases. WDW absolutely needs more hotels.

 

[Siren]

With the addition of Avatar, Disney is simply levering established paradigms against a more modernistic synergism, thus enabling a forward thinking lattice structured organization.

The addition of Avatar should be a welcome one, that patterns into a more vertically integrated, organic and transparent entity, especially when embraced with fresh eyes.

There is no difference between Avatar and the Yeti. Avatar is fantasy, the Yeti is a myth, which also translates into fantasy unless proven otherwise.

Expedition Everest's theme is inspired by the folklore of the Yeti. The Yeti is an unfounded myth with no scientific basis. It’s a story no different than that of Sasquatch.

The official Animal Kingdom park logo clearly features a mythical dragon to highlight the fantasy aspect of the park.

Avatar's story contains mythical beasts, just like the Yeti and dragons, it will fit in perfectly at Animal Kingdom. The Avatar Navi are humanoid like the Yeti.

While the story of Avatar is fiction -- it is an accurate depiction that reflects our way of life, which is heavily centered on globalization and the exploitation of our earth’s natural resources, pollution, dumping, drilling, mining, etc.

In contrast, the Avatar Navi have a strong sense of nature and live in harmony with their planet. Collectively, they are vehemently against practices such as drilling, mining, and deforestation. Guests will be inspired by the Navi to take better care of our planet -- by continuing to adopt green initiatives that will further reduce our carbon footprint and enhance our preservation and conservation efforts.

Avatar is one of the most notable successful films of all time. On a global level, it reaches across boundaries, and brings awareness to environmental causes and humanity. It is a platform of communication into the world of awareness.

The Avatar entity is being infused as a single component of a much larger initiative -- it will be utilized as a vehicle that will attract and draw in more people, while also bringing about more awareness and ultimately change, thus making Animal Kingdom as great and as grand as it could possibly be.

Also, there would be no Star Wars anything right now without Avatar. Iger was quite effective in using Avatarland as a mechanism tool to leverage Lucas into a bargain acquisition agreement for the entire Star Wars IP. Prior to Avatarland, Lucas wouldn't budge.

I totally plan to enjoy both Avatarland and Star Wars land and everything else Disney has to offer.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

With the addition of Avatar, Disney is simply levering established paradigms against a more modernistic synergism, thus enabling a forward thinking lattice structured organization.

The addition of Avatar should be a welcome one, that patterns into a more vertically integrated, organic and transparent entity, especially when embraced with fresh eyes.

You got that from the postmodern text generator, didn't you?

http://www.elsewhere.org/pomo/

 

[ford91exploder]

I would agree with most of that, especially the success of Avatar being the result of its must watch status as the new technology standard. I do disagree about Cameron not being a master storyteller. On the contrary, I would bet good money on his being being able to make a completely engrossing three hour $2 billion spectacular about himself staring at his feet. He's that good.

(And give him carte blanche on the Living Seas pavilion already!)

Absolutely give Cameron carte blanche on the Living Seas, Heck Cameron is one of the few people who helped Ballard with his deep diving research and he actually went down with Ballard several miles undersea so I think Cameron would be the one person who could revitalize 'The Living Seas'

You got that from the postmodern text generator, didn't you?

http://www.elsewhere.org/pomo/

I thought it sounded like something like an internal marketing presentation stolen from Burbank... As it's full of buzzwords which mean nothing at all.

 

[danlb_2000]

I was just reading an article dealing with the lack of new Disney Hotels and one conclusion was that the 4 parks were generally full now, so they don't have the park capacity to support any more hotels. Furthermore, the Star Wars property has now changed from a simple limited licensing of an old concept to Disney owning a new prospering franchise with new stories and characters. So considering the new 'size' and renewed popularity of Star Wars, isn't it too big to be pigeon-holed into Disney's Hollywood Studios? Not only that but devoting a whole section of the park to a single concept doesn't really fit the park, which is better suited presenting a variety of (different) entertainment attractions.
And with the new generation of Star Wars fans, I would NOW think that a new park featuring Star Wars attractions would be a bigger draw of new fans than Harry Potter was/is. Maybe, with the new Indiana Jones movie coming out soon, the new park could cater to that franchise as well.
It may not be too late to change since I think most of the work done for the new Star Wars land is the destruction of DHS so far, and that could be easily taken advantage of with the addition of many new DHS attractions like (in the new "Theater District" the Aladdin Stage Show, the return of the Hunchback and maybe a Disney on Ice show. Then back show.kiddie concerts (which bring in many new ticket families), and add some major Disney Channel star concerts, which could happen in the late afternoon in the Fantasmic Theater. Carsland could extend on from the new Toy Story area. Bring back the special events like Soaps featuring soap opera stars. There still would be a Star Wars and Indy connection keeping the existing attractions, but perhaps (stealing the idea from Universal's Hogwarts Train interconnection), they could add a high-speed mag-lev train between Star Tours and the new park?
Most of these concepts are all ready for construction, with the only delay being the planning and placement of the new park. So just move all the plans to the new park, and bring in some clones to DHS (no planning necessary) and turn up the steam and get it done. And plan and build that Star Wars Host Hotel.
Will Disney take the challenge?

I am not sure if I really follow all your arguments.

1. "4 parks were generally full now". Even Magic Kingdom only reaches capacity a couple times a year, and there is a lot of opportunity to increase attendance at the other three parks to take pressure off MK. All the parks have expansion room, some more then others, and there are also un-utilized, or under utilized areas in the parks.

2. "isn't it too big to be pigeon-holed into Disney's Hollywood Studios" Disney recently released a big chunk of land near DHS from it's conservation easement opening up a huge piece of land that could be used for expansion if they need it.

3. "devoting a whole section of the park to a single concept doesn't really fit the park," First, the park is clearly changing direction so it's hard to say what will and will not fit. Also, later you mention putting in Carsland which would also be devoting a section of the park to a single concept.

4. Moving Star Wars to a new park get's into the very complex 5th gate debate. Personally I think it is better to add on to the current parks then to add a new one.

5. "It may not be too late to change since I think most of the work done for the new Star Wars land is the destruction of DHS so far" Yes, they could change course if they wanted to, but nothing has really changed between when the concept was first announced and now, so there is no reason to think Disney will change their plans.

 

[WDWdream97]

Moar?

I meant the occupancy claim. But yes, more resorts are also planned.

Will these be all Deluxe resorts? And will any of them have a park entrance?

 

[marni1971]

What? The one thing Disney has been throwing cash at is building new hotels and expansions to existing ones. In the last few years we have had:
-Art of Animation Resort
-Bay Lake Tower
-Villas at Disney's Grand Floridian Resort
-Kidani Village expansion
-Four Seasons Orlando in WDW
And probably one or two others I'm forgetting. The last thing WDW needs right now is more hotels.

Only one is a "Disney hotel"

 

[Johnguelff]

If anyone thinks Avatar 2 will flop they are out of their minds. I didn't like avatar either but the general public are eating up big blockbusters one by one. 2.788 billion. The biggest movie of all time.(somehow) I think Disney has the right plan..

 

[George]

With the addition of Avatar, Disney is simply levering established paradigms against a more modernistic synergism, thus enabling a forward thinking lattice structured organization.

The addition of Avatar should be a welcome one, that patterns into a more vertically integrated, organic and transparent entity, especially when embraced with fresh eyes.

There is no difference between Avatar and the Yeti. Avatar is fantasy, the Yeti is a myth, which also translates into fantasy unless proven otherwise.

Expedition Everest's theme is inspired by the folklore of the Yeti. The Yeti is an unfounded myth with no scientific basis. It’s a story no different than that of Sasquatch.

The official Animal Kingdom park logo clearly features a mythical dragon to highlight the fantasy aspect of the park.

Avatar's story contains mythical beasts, just like the Yeti and dragons, it will fit in perfectly at Animal Kingdom. The Avatar Navi are humanoid like the Yeti.

While the story of Avatar is fiction -- it is an accurate depiction that reflects our way of life, which is heavily centered on globalization and the exploitation of our earth’s natural resources, pollution, dumping, drilling, mining, etc.

In contrast, the Avatar Navi have a strong sense of nature and live in harmony with their planet. Collectively, they are vehemently against practices such as drilling, mining, and deforestation. Guests will be inspired by the Navi to take better care of our planet -- by continuing to adopt green initiatives that will further reduce our carbon footprint and enhance our preservation and conservation efforts.

Avatar is one of the most notable successful films of all time. On a global level, it reaches across boundaries, and brings awareness to environmental causes and humanity. It is a platform of communication into the world of awareness.

The Avatar entity is being infused as a single component of a much larger initiative -- it will be utilized as a vehicle that will attract and draw in more people, while also bringing about more awareness and ultimately change, thus making Animal Kingdom as great and as grand as it could possibly be.

Also, there would be no Star Wars anything right now without Avatar. Iger was quite effective in using Avatarland as a mechanism tool to leverage Lucas into a bargain acquisition agreement for the entire Star Wars IP. Prior to Avatarland, Lucas wouldn't budge.

I totally plan to enjoy both Avatarland and Star Wars land and everything else Disney has to offer.

Yeah.

Will these be all Deluxe resorts? And will any of them have a park entrance?

They want another All-Star resort in order to draw attention away from the unfortunate acronym All-Star Sports has been saddled with. They want a Star Wars tie in. I think they're going with All Star Star (the double Star is weird, but they feel it is important to honor both the All Star resorts and the successful sci fi franchise) Wars Imperial Pilots Empire School. The big idea is that guests of the resort would be up and coming possible tie fighter pilots learning about the ins and outs of the empire. Darth Vader, Grand Moff Tarkin, etc. would be out and about. Should be fun.

 

[rle4lunch]

Building a high speed mag lev train?!?! Do you know how much those cost?