Spirited News and Observations and Opinions ...

[DisneyDad1977]

That makes sense. (Dollars and cents too!)

Everyone will have an RFID chip imbedded in their admission media whether it's the bracelets that Disney wants or simply in a one-day ticket or an AP.

Now the smart-arses will simply say if you don't like it, then you don't have to go to WDW and the lines will be shorter for us or they'll find a rube to replace you. But the reality is that in this country if you don't like the way a company operates or its policies, being in a democracy and all, you have other ways of letting them know your displeasure.

I myself would like to make Liz Clark, Phil Holmes and even the lovely Pam Brandon eat an entire turkey sandwich and fries from Cosmic Ray's without having to vomit. But that's just me.

WDW1974-You are right about it being a democracy. Has anybody thought that this might be a test run for this tech to be used in Shanghai? A place that is not a democracy and the people are used to the government tracking their every move already? The money Disney could make off this tech in the growing Asian market could well recoup 2 billion and a whole lot more.

 

[Bforeverknight]

Alright, just my 2 cents here but if you add up all the pieces that Disney already has in place, facial recognition, biometrics and now RFID. Disney is becoming the movie, Minority Report. The ability to hit you with numerous ads as you walk through a door, and it is just the tip of the iceberg, sure Disney will sell the technology, what company is not going to take advantage of being able to constantly feed into the growing obsession for material goods and gadgets (do not get me wrong, I am all for capitalism, but the push to consume and have data constantly at ones fingertips has grown into an obsession).

Those that feel that they will be able to opt out, I doubt it Disney is spending 2 Billion plus on this technology without a plan for implementing said technology. Again think Minority Report if you are not in the system items will not work and so on. Will there be people that figure out ways to game the system sure but it will not stop Disney from pushing forward.

 

[crispy]

I have read every post to this point (yes, I know there are still 2 pages to go). Some posts I read word for word, twice! Some I just skimmed. That being said, I have a few questions/comments.
Comments first:
I have never actually used more than 4 Fastpasses in a single day. I let 3 sets expire this year (ToT, BTMR, Soarin'), so for sure, I would have to be more selective in the future.
While not crazy about being tracked 24/7, I am also not too paranoid. My initial reaction was simply that I would buy something that would block the RFID reader when I felt like it; but that's just because I'm contrary by nature.
Questions:
Here's my situation - middle aged Canadian woman who travels to WDW yearly with hubby, hubby and kids, SIL & nieces, or a combination thereof. What kind of targeted advertising is Disney going to send me? When, where and how, would I receive it? I own an iPhone 5 which I take off roaming while in the US, as my roaming charges are outrageous. So, Disney can't text me while on site, which I assume will be their preferred method of communication. As for email - with the roll out of free WiFi pretty much park wide, I do access my email often. Due to my settings, however, almost everything goes straight into my junk box. So, I'm not getting too many emails. Don't bother calling me on my cell - I only answer for work, hubby and kids (not in that order and not in the States, anyway).
So now, Disney knows where I stayed, and where I ate (most of which they already knew because of ADR's, the use of my KTTK card for CS meals) and all park purchases are also put on the KTTK card. The only thing I pay cash for the whole time are TS restaurant tips.
So, long story (question) short - what new info will Disney garner, that they don't already have?
PS - I don't use Disney transportation, we always rent a car. Who cares if Disney learns that I left the resort area a couple of times to go to Publix, Walgreen's or up to Sand Lake Rd to go to the Florida Mall? On the plus side, they might misinterpret a day off property at the Florida Mall or the beach as a day at Universal, and actually get scared into adding some new D and E attractions.

I think this is the question that worries me. They aren't spending over a billion dollars to get information they already have so the question is what are they really after?

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

More money, its not the what its the how

 

[Snowflake82]

I'm new sure I understand the "forcing" part. Couldn't you put a bracelet into your pocket (where it can be wrapped up in foil) until you need it to purchase your lunch or open your hotel door?

If I remember correctly from our visit to Great Wolf Lodge, each member of your party had to wear the wristband for admission to the waterpark, and lifeguards would keep an eye out for people without the bands. Like the old EMH wristbands, they want to make sure that once on, they can't be taken off and put on by someone else. I think there was also something like a $50 charge for a lost band to be replaced during your stay.

 

[Jimmy Thick]

Disney is after everyone. All will bow their heads before the Mouse to receive the Mark of the Mouse...



Jimmy Thick- Useless drivel produced by the overly paranoid.

 

[Goofyernmost]

That was the quote that jumped out at me, too. We've known that Disney wants to track guest spending habits through NextGen. But now they can sell your data to other companies -- AND, according to the post, sell the NextGen technology to other corporations...

Wowwee. Imagine if every big box store you entered had a similar "program" -- Target, Walmart, department stores tracking you...

Makes me a little queasy.

I'm puzzled by what would be gained by Disney selling data that pertains to Disney alone. If you bought two blush Mickeys will every blush Mickey dealer on the planet zero in on you. It's the technology that they are planning to market and it will be popular with all retail and even wholesale people everywhere. That's what they will make a fortune on if it all works.

Oh, they might be able to sell Universal or Sea World or Bush the exact same technology and even park driven data, but it wouldn't be of much use to anyone outside of a Theme Park.

And as far as imagining every big box store...come on, you're not serious are you. You have to run stuff through the register don't you? You have a store card that gives you discounts that are rung up with it haven't you? Everything is bar coded so that they know exactly what you buy and how often, don't they. Grocery stores can tell you what you bought, when you bought it, how much you paid and even how much you saved by using the card and/or coupons historically.

1984 showed up just a few years after 1984. It has been part of our technology for years now. Personally, since I, as far as I know, am not doing any illegal trafficking of drugs or weapons, am not at all concerned if they know how often I buy Cheerio's. Or a Mickey Bar or anything else. No matter what they know does not force me to spend the money on something I don't want.

 

[flynnibus]

The beef is right there. Maybe you are used to flank steak and can't tell a fine filet cut when it is sitting in front of you

It makes new assertions about Disney's intentions.. but is clearly written from outside the company (or as an independent). It makes assertions with no references to what it bases those assertions on, provides no citations, doesn't even infer it's information specifically gathered from the company itself. It could simply be an opinion piece - it's written as such. So that's why I say 'wheres the beef?'

What kind of credibility does such a piece carry when there are zero sources, citations, and you don't even have the authors position or history to rely on as part of the equation? All we have is 'it came from Spirit...' but it's not even words you claim authorship of. So, for all I know.. someone named GoofyABC wrote it from his mom's basement (darn, forgot Orlando doesn't do basements.. garage? screened porch?). I'm asking for what should make these words seem believable and credible in the assertions the piece makes.

I sometimes am convinced you work in social media or new tech because you are so cocksure (it's OK to use that word when you don't precede or follow it with fanbois) that because of everything from Twitter to NEXT GEN we are moving into a BIG BRIGHT BEAUTIFUL TOMORROW when so many see things so differently. And you're a smart guy, so it's not like arguing with one of the morons around.

I work in product development - so I know what it means to do your research and be able to aim and build out ahead of where the crowd is today. I also know what it means to cut through 'claims' and find what is solid enough to base my own choices and reputation on - be it internal or external claims. I know how to position and sell our efforts to the market. So I like to think of it as a unique combination of technical, research, and market savvy - you can draw your own conclusions

Privacy advocates barked at the fingerprinting that Disney likes to call 'biometrics' because that sounds nice and pure and harmless instead of getting printed like a criminal ... or ya know walking around with a tracking bracelet on, even one with Tink (like I assume you'd want!)

I'm more of a Donald guy The hype around the finger readers was big.. but Disney had an situation they could easily argue why it was necessary and be able to respond to how it was not fingerprinting like law enforcement uses. But my comment was more to the assertions in your piece that Disney will force all users with no opt-out AND market all the data collected. That combination is what makes it different. It's one thing to require something to consume a service - its another to not allow the consumer to control or protect their personal information. That is the line being crossed - not 'tracking' or other things. The problem is the mob is being distracted by the blinking lights of RFID - instead of focusing on what's important or really at risk.

All Disney has to do is PR the thing to death, although in this case I think they're in for one helluva battle. Too many ways to track ... even the innocuous wifi (which will be amped up several levels from what you have now) can easily be used to track your wonderful toys that you'll want to use to check your wait times and log onto 'My Disney Experience' to book dinner for your trip in six months at Le Cellier.

Are people upset already that Disney can track them via their use of Disney's mobile apps.. or their website.. and collect similar data already? No - because it's innocuous.. and the assertions about selling the data could be applied just the same to existing data. The same types of data collection and sharing laws apply the same regardless of RFID.

Oh, and enjoy the guesswork because I, very obviously, have no intention of telling you (or anyone at TDO either guys, including your lawyers) where that doc came from. ... well, unless you want to replace Lou Mongello with the Spirit than all bets are off!

That's fine - it only hurts its own credibility and weight. It may sway those who hang on your every word.. but I'm not into idolizing

 

[Jimmy Thick]

Um, just to throw it out there, Facebook does this already, and the world is surviving.


Jimmy Thick- This thread is comedic gold.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I really doubt this is something Disney would sell to other companies.

In a heartbeat, that's the reason for patents. You develop and operate a workable system you have a huge market to sell that technology too. Not the specific findings. Why would you tell your competition what your guests are buying and how much. But they could easily prove that it worked (if it does) and sell the technology so fast your head would spin. Count on it.

 

[spaceghost]

Disney is after everyone. All will bow their heads before the Mouse to receive the Mark of the Mouse...



Jimmy Thick- Useless drivel produced by the overly paranoid.

You are one weird mamajama.

 

[flynnibus]

But that raises another question about what useful information is really gained, sepcifically, as a result of NextGen. It's spending and use of the parks, which sounds great, but who's going to go through millions of unique accounts to determine what useful information really exists?

This is the world of Business Intelligence and Analytics. It's about how to dig useful conclusions out of data and dimensions you have collected. You find patterns, correlations, trends, etc. This is not an area where 'one way to do it for everyone'. This is a creative space where based on your business or what types of things you are interested in, you build your reports and reporting factors. Disney will be able to use such data to report on itself, model customers as categories, and model customers individually.

You don't do this line by line - this is all multi-dimensional database stuff. Analytics is it's own art.

 

[DocMcHulk]

@WDW1974, how would you compare this information grab compared to companies like Google and Facebook? I think those companies have WAY more data on me than Disney will grab. At worst, it'll probably be similar.

 

[Goofyernmost]

But see your 'tude -- I believe -- is part of the problem in our country. It was why so many of our fundamental and basic rights disappeared after 9/11. ''I've got nothing to hide,'' was always the common refrain. Which is BS because we all have things to hide. If people had just told the government 'No, we're not taking our shoes off to board a plane'', we wouldn't have people being virtually strip-searched and children molested by the TSA today. People gotta stop being sheeple. ...

OK, buddy you lead the way on the shoe thing and the rest of us will follow you like sheep. Oh wait, one sheep herder or the other doesn't really matter does it. The reason why we all patiently take our shoes off, is because we don't want the plane to blow up, plain and simple. It has nothing to do with someone telling us to do so, although they did, we thought it was a doable plan. I, like everyone else, makes choices in my life, and one of them is to cooperate on a level that might save my useless life. I'll follow anyone, anywhere for a degree of insurance that I can have that, no matter how small the reality is.

 

[trs518]

This is my take on Next Gen....

Where it can helpful...
1. Bus Efficiency....allowing people to request a specific park bus when they get to a bus stop. Then Disney would know that X people are waiting for a Magic Kingdom bus at Aruba in CBR.
2. Ride Efficiency....Gauge wait times more accurately by tracking when people get in line and when they get on a ride.
3. Speeding up lines to purchase food and product, because you're swiping a RFID reader and not a Key To the World Card.
4. Being able to ride Toy Story Mania without having to wait an hour in line or be in the fastpass rush.
5. Wearing a bracelet, rather than having to carry a magnetic key card around.

Downsides...
1. Have to select what day I'll be going on certain rides ahead of time.

Jury Is Still Out On...
1. Standby wait times

Things I'm Not Overly Concerned About...
1. Disney tracking my information. I rarely pay with cash and I know they're already tracking what I'm doing; what I buy, what fastpasses I get, and what hotel I'm in, etc.

 

[merry68]

I am wondering just how much the gate ticket prices are going to jump - I swear that all this NextGen is just an excuse to raise prices..and maybe start charging for things that were once considered "free" or part of your admission, ie FPs.

This NextGen is a huge waste of money, plain and simple. What on earth were the suits thinking approving this?

 

[flynnibus]

In a heartbeat, that's the reason for patents. You develop and operate a workable system you have a huge market to sell that technology too

That's if your business is selling a product to be consumed by others.

Disney's business is to attract people to come to them and spend money on Disney's product.

Why on earth would Disney invest hundreds of millions to build a technology that none of their competition has, would be difficult for the competition to replicate, and then turn around and sell that competitive edge?

That makes no sense. Disney is not in the business intelligence market. They aren't even in the IT business. They aren't even likely building most of this in-house but using large consulting firms like AA, BAH, etc. Why would Disney invest in building a competitive edge, then turn around and SELL it to others for simple cash? Disney is trying to build a product to differentiate themselves in a way that is hard to replicate. To put that edge out on the market for a simple price would defeat any long term value in Disney's investment.

It's entirely different to market the customer profile information collected (the output about potential customers) vs selling the tools and methods used to collect and correlate that data. I can't help but think people are getting the two confused. Selling the customer data collected about customer profiles, behaviors, etc makes sense. It's a healthy byproduct of Disney's own collection and usage of the data. But rest assured, no way Disney would sell anything that would be worthwhile to it's competition. Why invest billions to help your competition? Even TDO isn't that stupid.

 

[flynnibus]

The huge difference is that Disney will require me to carry an RFID device tracking my every movement, like a released criminal being monitored with an electronic device.

You mean like watching you with cameras.. like a criminal that may commit a crime? Are you upset that Disney or casinos watch you all the time with cameras?

The fear of tracking in general is overhyped and way out of context. Tracking is about privacy - and privacy is about what you are keeping as your own. Your movement throughout the resort is worthy of keeping private why? How is it private today how? Who is going to exploit collecting that information? The location data is valuable only to Disney for its own purposes.

Amazing no one was crying foul when Disney required you to use your ticket (which has your personal info linked) to get a fastpass.. and hence Disney could track which attractions you'd visit, when, etc.

 

[danlb_2000]

In a heartbeat, that's the reason for patents. You develop and operate a workable system you have a huge market to sell that technology too. Not the specific findings. Why would you tell your competition what your guests are buying and how much. But they could easily prove that it worked (if it does) and sell the technology so fast your head would spin. Count on it.

Some companies get patents to they can license them to other companies, some just get them to prevent other people from doing what they are doing. I don't know if Disney has a track record of licensing their patents or not.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

One mans vocal privacy concerns is another multinationals smoke screen for the real issues affecting the parks. The magicians trick, just Magical.