Ellen's Energy Adventure technical problems

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
I find it hard to see what's on the earth, the fireworks are average compared to wishes and it doesn't work with the amount of obstructions around the lagoon.
I agree on all three counts!

Maybe it's my optician, but I can't make out anything on that globe. If I can find a spot from where I can see it in the first place - not an easy feat now that so much of WS has been turned into a restaurant or sold for private viewing.
 

Cosmic Commando

Well-Known Member
I wonder if they could take out one of the vehicles in UoE? I love the ride, but even I get bored waiting for the other vehicles to arrive after I've arrived or depart so my car can depart. You could cut out some ride time without missing any actual content, maybe even fit in another show.
 

Cosmic Commando

Well-Known Member
I agree on all three counts!

Maybe it's my optician, but I can't make out anything on that globe. If I can find a spot from where I can see it in the first place - not an easy feat now that so much of WS has been turned into a restaurant or sold for private viewing.
The globe should be a better screen and the fountains are pretty pathetic if you've seen World of Color, but I think the bones of a good show are there. Plus, it ties together Future World and World Showcase pretty well, IMO. Find a way to put literal HDTV screens in the continents, or make the whole globe covered in LEDs... then you could have a better screen when you wanted and you could still have the image of the continents when you wanted. Seriously, if you're going to make a representation of the Earth, it had better be BIG if you're only going to have images on the land... land only covers 30% of the planet! Have the fire raise out of the top at the end instead of making the whole globe open. Would anyone really miss seeing the globe open up? That must be a lot of weight to lift and lower.
 

WED99

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
The globe should be a better screen and the fountains are pretty pathetic if you've seen World of Color, but I think the bones of a good show are there. Plus, it ties together Future World and World Showcase pretty well, IMO. Find a way to put literal HDTV screens in the continents, or make the whole globe covered in LEDs... then you could have a better screen when you wanted and you could still have the image of the continents when you wanted. Seriously, if you're going to make a representation of the Earth, it had better be BIG if you're only going to have images on the land... land only covers 30% of the planet! Have the fire raise out of the top at the end instead of making the whole globe open. Would anyone really miss seeing the globe open up? That must be a lot of weight to lift and lower.
I think just a larger earth and maybe some viewing areas would suffice.
 

CDavid

Well-Known Member
The average guest doesn't want to be on one attraction for that long anymore. They want a handful of smaller experiences.

Actually, I'd much prefer one epic-length experience which captivates the audience for the entire length of the presentation. There is often a difference in what people think they want and what will actually constitute an innovative, immersive world-class attraction. Before Epcot, nobody would have said they wanted theme-park attractions based on energy or communications.

Visitors have no problem with movies, concerts, or sporting events which last two hours or more. There is no reason why an attraction cannot be conceived which maintains attention for a similar time, and certainly for three-quarters of an hour. Would you really prefer 2-3 short, simple attractions in that same hour - spending most of your time waiting in standby lines instead of actually experiencing something?
 

luv

Well-Known Member
Maybe it's because I've seen it so much, but I think they toned down Illuminations...especially the part with the many little white things zipping around. Still like it, though.
 

Rob562

Well-Known Member
I wonder if they could take out one of the vehicles in UoE? I love the ride, but even I get bored waiting for the other vehicles to arrive after I've arrived or depart so my car can depart. You could cut out some ride time without missing any actual content, maybe even fit in another show.

Theoretically they could take out two vehicles per set and shorten the "dispatch" time into the diorama. But that wouldn't do anything to shorten the overall show, and it wouldn't allow the addition of an additional set of vehicles in the attraction's current configuation.

Theater 1 is only empty for a very brief moment. As soon as one set of vehicles enters the diorama and the wall closes, the other side opens and the second set of vehicles rolls in from Theater 2. So the time it takes one set of vehicles to file into the diorama one-by-one, regroup in Theater 2 and watch the Theater 2 show is the same amount of time for a set of vehicles to enter Theater 1, show the ending, unload, load new Guests and show the start of the Theater 1 show. It's a delicate ballet between the two sets of vehicles.

That's why you're sitting in Theater 1 for so long after the pre-show before the show starts, because they have to account for a full-capacity crowd, and you're waiting for the point where the *other* set has progressed to where your set can then start its show.

Really, no matter what car you sit in, everyone sits and waits for the same amount of time. It's either all waiting at the start of the diorama (cars 5 and 6), after the diorama in Theater 2 (cars 1 and 2), or a little bit on either end (cars 3 and 4). That's why I prefer sitting in car #3.

The only thing that eliminating two vehicles from each set would do is to increase the available length of the movie in Theater 2. To increase the pavilion to three sets of vehicles means you'd need to create more for vehicles to do in the diorama. There's no other way in the current configuration.

-Rob
 

Cosmic Commando

Well-Known Member
Really, no matter what car you sit in, everyone sits and waits for the same amount of time. It's either all waiting at the start of the diorama (cars 5 and 6), after the diorama in Theater 2 (cars 1 and 2), or a little bit on either end (cars 3 and 4). That's why I prefer sitting in car #3.
You mean you don't like to get to Theater 2 first so you can hear the whole radio broadcast?!? :eek:;)
 

MarkTwain

Well-Known Member
Theoretically they could take out two vehicles per set and shorten the "dispatch" time into the diorama. But that wouldn't do anything to shorten the overall show, and it wouldn't allow the addition of an additional set of vehicles in the attraction's current configuation.

Theater 1 is only empty for a very brief moment. As soon as one set of vehicles enters the diorama and the wall closes, the other side opens and the second set of vehicles rolls in from Theater 2. So the time it takes one set of vehicles to file into the diorama one-by-one, regroup in Theater 2 and watch the Theater 2 show is the same amount of time for a set of vehicles to enter Theater 1, show the ending, unload, load new Guests and show the start of the Theater 1 show. It's a delicate ballet between the two sets of vehicles.

That's why you're sitting in Theater 1 for so long after the pre-show before the show starts, because they have to account for a full-capacity crowd, and you're waiting for the point where the *other* set has progressed to where your set can then start its show.

Really, no matter what car you sit in, everyone sits and waits for the same amount of time. It's either all waiting at the start of the diorama (cars 5 and 6), after the diorama in Theater 2 (cars 1 and 2), or a little bit on either end (cars 3 and 4). That's why I prefer sitting in car #3.

The only thing that eliminating two vehicles from each set would do is to increase the available length of the movie in Theater 2. To increase the pavilion to three sets of vehicles means you'd need to create more for vehicles to do in the diorama. There's no other way in the current configuration.

-Rob

So to your knowledge, there's no way the ride time can be reduced at the vehicles' current speed, then?
 

TubaGeek

God bless the "Ignore" button.
Would you really prefer 2-3 short, simple attractions in that same hour - spending most of your time waiting in standby lines instead of actually experiencing something?
Personally, definitely no. I just think the average guest is a little more A.D.D. "I've gotta get EVERYTHING done and this will just take too much time" than I am.
 

alphac2005

Well-Known Member
The whole A.D.D. talk and the average guest really gets me going. It's funny in a twisted way that Disney essentially has helped create the monster within their own parks. When my wife and I didn't have children, we were always on the move, didn't care for pure silence and relaxing, we were just constantly moving. While we've kept up the physical fitness side of things, once you have kids, many of us completely love the moments of quiet and relaxation.

Whether it's sitting outside on our patio, or even sitting in total silence, relaxing, that's something that we wouldn't have done before the kids, but now, those moments are so exceptional and recharging. So, what does this have to do with Disney? The whole concept of the going to Disney World wasn't just about going on vacation, but relaxing, decompressing, and having a lot of fun. The idea of sitting in one attraction for three quarters of an hour, just taking it in and not having to deal with the kids bickering, or bolting from one place to another.

What's the monster that Disney has created? Ride reservations, dining reservations, taking appointments for seeing characters, killing nearly all of the relaxing, non-hyper elements of going to the parks to where they are all basically saying that you have to be on the go at all times because you "HAVE TO DO THESE THINGS." Armies of strollers and ECVs filling the walkways while you move for dear life. ;) They've fed the proverbial beast. I know people that are calm, the cerebral type that when you throw them down into the mix at WDW, it's out the window, and it's kill or be killed with their rushing and basic unenjoyment of the attractions because they have so much that they've been fed that they have to do and are overscheduled from the moment they arrive.

I believe that if the company ever devotes the money to redoing the attraction, that they'll figure out how to either shorten it or dumb it down even further as they perpetuate the myth of everyone needing to stare at a screen in their pocket and can't sit still for more than five minutes without talking on a phone. I think that there are many people that can enjoy a long produced attraction like Universe of Energy, but the lack of interest by many is more related to the fact that the show is way outdated. A lot of what is said isn't too far off from today minus the not so subtle fossil fuel industry's take on energy and the laughable renewable energy portions. The fact that Ellen, Alex Trebek, and Bill Nye look and are from 20 years ago, that just comes across as pathetic to most audiences. And let us not forget Jamie Lee Curtis, who when the film was made was a few years off True Lies and now is schilling yogurt to boomers in the States.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
I agree on all three counts!

Maybe it's my optician, but I can't make out anything on that globe. If I can find a spot from where I can see it in the first place - not an easy feat now that so much of WS has been turned into a restaurant or sold for private viewing.

It would work perfectly in the lake next to Disney Springs.
 

prberk

Well-Known Member
I agree that Disney fed the ADD beast, and not just at the parks either.

The Disney Channnel constantly goes breathlessly from one hyper scene to another, and never allows time for reflection as it once did.

Check out an old episode of The (original) Mickey Mouse Club, with an "Annette" or "Spin and Marty" serial episode especially, and you will see the pacing and surprising depth that used to constitute the definition of children's programming. To say nothing of "True-Life" adventure series movies, which EPCOT should clearly springboard from.

Disney continually ignores the popularity of Discovery Channel kind of things because it doesn't fit in with an entertainment property that they own. But further than that, they continue to believe that they have to dumb everything down and get the short-term gain (both in entertainment and in business), instead of evaluating the innovation and products that made them the standard in quality family entertainment in the first place.
 

BoarderPhreak

Well-Known Member
I wonder if they could take out one of the vehicles in UoE? I love the ride, but even I get bored waiting for the other vehicles to arrive after I've arrived or depart so my car can depart. You could cut out some ride time without missing any actual content, maybe even fit in another show.
They are what makes UoE so unique, even today!
 

MarkTwain

Well-Known Member
The whole A.D.D. talk and the average guest really gets me going. It's funny in a twisted way that Disney essentially has helped create the monster within their own parks. When my wife and I didn't have children, we were always on the move, didn't care for pure silence and relaxing, we were just constantly moving. While we've kept up the physical fitness side of things, once you have kids, many of us completely love the moments of quiet and relaxation.

Whether it's sitting outside on our patio, or even sitting in total silence, relaxing, that's something that we wouldn't have done before the kids, but now, those moments are so exceptional and recharging. So, what does this have to do with Disney? The whole concept of the going to Disney World wasn't just about going on vacation, but relaxing, decompressing, and having a lot of fun. The idea of sitting in one attraction for three quarters of an hour, just taking it in and not having to deal with the kids bickering, or bolting from one place to another.

What's the monster that Disney has created? Ride reservations, dining reservations, taking appointments for seeing characters, killing nearly all of the relaxing, non-hyper elements of going to the parks to where they are all basically saying that you have to be on the go at all times because you "HAVE TO DO THESE THINGS." Armies of strollers and ECVs filling the walkways while you move for dear life. ;) They've fed the proverbial beast. I know people that are calm, the cerebral type that when you throw them down into the mix at WDW, it's out the window, and it's kill or be killed with their rushing and basic unenjoyment of the attractions because they have so much that they've been fed that they have to do and are overscheduled from the moment they arrive.

I believe that if the company ever devotes the money to redoing the attraction, that they'll figure out how to either shorten it or dumb it down even further as they perpetuate the myth of everyone needing to stare at a screen in their pocket and can't sit still for more than five minutes without talking on a phone. I think that there are many people that can enjoy a long produced attraction like Universe of Energy, but the lack of interest by many is more related to the fact that the show is way outdated. A lot of what is said isn't too far off from today minus the not so subtle fossil fuel industry's take on energy and the laughable renewable energy portions. The fact that Ellen, Alex Trebek, and Bill Nye look and are from 20 years ago, that just comes across as pathetic to most audiences. And let us not forget Jamie Lee Curtis, who when the film was made was a few years off True Lies and now is schilling yogurt to boomers in the States.

It's an interesting problem, for sure, and one I used to be guilty of before I realized how it was impacting my enjoyment of the parks. I wonder if part of it is now the sheer quantity of offerings WDW has. WDW's "Vacation Kingdom of the World" ads from the 1970s/80s reflect a much more leisurely style of vacationing, but in hindsight a 1-week trip to WDW must have been a lot more leisurely with only one or two theme parks, three hotels and a campground. Now you can spend a week in WDW and still struggle to see "it all".

Playing devil's advocate, it kind of makes you wonder how more additions to the parks would impact this mentality. If people are already abandoning UoE because it's seen as taking too much valuable time they could be enjoying other Epcot offerings, what would adding three more E-tickets to Epcot do? I wouldn't object to the E-tickets but it makes you wonder how it would further affect the pacing. I wonder if people would ever just accept that they can't do it all, and just enjoy the attractions they choose instead of trying to do all of them.
 

Rob562

Well-Known Member
So to your knowledge, there's no way the ride time can be reduced at the vehicles' current speed, then?

The only way that ride time can be reduced would be to eliminate time from films in each theater. And it would have to be equal amounts of time in each.

For example, to reduce the ride time by 5 minutes, you'd have to cut 2.5 minutes from Theater 2's show and 2.5 minutes from Theater 1's start show (the end show is pretty much taken up entirely by turntable movement so it can't really be used to trim Theater 1 time).

And since the opening film is only about 4 minutes before the turn to the diorama, that would mean cutting that opening sequence almost entirely.

Edited to add:
You *might* be able to gain some time if you cut the pack of vehicles down to 4, since the maximum audience would be smaller and thus would require 33% shorter load and unload times, and so that time could be used to offset cut time from the Theater 2 show. But if you keep it at 6 vehicles, then no, there isn't much of a way to cut any appreciable amount of time.

-Rob
 

MarkTwain

Well-Known Member
The only way that ride time can be reduced would be to eliminate time from films in each theater. And it would have to be equal amounts of time in each.

For example, to reduce the ride time by 5 minutes, you'd have to cut 2.5 minutes from Theater 2's show and 2.5 minutes from Theater 1's start show (the end show is pretty much taken up entirely by turntable movement so it can't really be used to trim Theater 1 time).

And since the opening film is only about 4 minutes before the turn to the diorama, that would mean cutting that opening sequence almost entirely.

-Rob

Good to know. Reducing that first film would be a shame, since that first turn is where you first realize that this isn't just a movie theater (provided all the safety spiels and CMs yelling to remain seated during the ride don't give it away). Making the ride 5 minutes shorter won't do much to win over new guests when you're dealing with a 40-minute attraction.
 

MarkTwain

Well-Known Member
I think the ride system is still impressive. Still innovative, unusual. It has the great strenght of allowing for a large theatrical presentation, while still bearing in mind Walt's wisdom to 'keep the guests moving'.

The original UoE is one of the EPCOT pavilions that would've just looked miserably out of date by now. Frankly, parts of it always were boring even in its heyday. Shame they replaced it all by something that stands the test of time even worse. But that was and is about the quality of the movies, not the ride system. Where there are lasers, mirrors, rousing scores nobody was bored. Surely some show guys somewhere can come up with something flashy? Like the orginal, but then with today's technology? Me, I'd hire an avant garde filmmaker, and a showman, and a sustainable energy expert and put the three of them in conclave until they come up with a killer makeover concept.


Please leave those dinosaurs intact for all eternity. They remain a sight to behold. No part of the dino areas in either UNI or DAK have managed to improve on it, neither can rivel UoE for sheer atmosphere. But restore the old version. Dinos die. They die drowning in tar pits. That's how their fossils are preserved. They are not swimming for fun like a baby dolphin.


The Radok Cubes preshow still looks fresh and awesome thirthy years later. Genuine artistry, of which EPCOT had so much and of which so little survived. Imagene, if you will, in the current climate an EPCOT movie that is not based on some C-eleb, does not feature a cartoon merchandidse franchise. But that is made by a Czech avant-garde filmmaker! :eek:

I have nothing to add this except that I would love it if more artistry made it to Epcot, as would surely surprise no one who reads my posts often. I like the idea of putting the avant-garde artist, the showman, and the energy expert (and I might add science fiction author) in the same room and seeing what they come up with. That was the kind of collaboration that EPCOT Center had with Ray Bradbury, Czech filmmakers, and Moroccon royal artisans collaborating on a design project in a degree you don't see today.

We had a discussion in my architecture studio about kinetic/interactive facades. When I pulled out a video of the Rodak cubes, there were jaws hitting the ground. And this is coming from the 1980s. Disney design doesn't impact the often-elitist field of cutting-edge architecture much these days, but imagine if they were still making stuff like that today.
 

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