Disney Genie and Genie+ at Walt Disney World

[Fido Chuckwagon]

For starters im trying to be as transparent and honest as possible… feel if im gonna have a debate/convo about DAS going to give the full story. Next regarding what you are saying. I dont feel like thats abusing the system or power using it. Its within all guidelines Disney allows and tell me anyone who would not take advantage of that? Again it is one of the bonuses of DAS which allows you to basically get a free ride during the day… abuse is an extremely strong word especially when we are using that term regarding people who are literally lying and committing fraud to obtain it.

There's definitely different kinds of "abuse." People lying to take advantage of the system are a huge problem and it sounds like we can both agree that constitutes "abuse." However, do you at least agree that you are likely using the system in a way that Disney didn't intend when they designed it? Can you concede that if every single DAS user used the system the way you are, then it would be responsible for a lot of the capacity problems we are seeing now?

Disney has designed a very generous system for DAS users. All the ADA requires is a "reasonable accomodation" that puts people with a disability on the same playing field as those without. They could certainly scale it back (and it sounds like they are!) without violating the ADA.

 

[DisneyDodo]

Listen ive stated how i use DAS which im sure other do the same but its not difficult to see how DAS can be used properly ie as ive said. I have dinner booked why wouldnt i have a top tier ride ready to go once dinner is finished along with a Genie+ ride as well? If thats abuse then we have different definitions of the word… want to say inthese cases its an “advantage” so be it but abuse thats a stretch. Again Disney is making these rules and we are simply abiding by them… noone cared when DAS users at the time GAC users literally needed to criss cross the park to get return times. Literally asking people who needed special needs to walk endlessly… but whatever regarding that

From a logistical perspective, it would be very hard for Disney to combat against things like this (though there are some measures they could take to mitigate it, such as blocking you from securing a return time for a ride if you have a dining reservation in the interim).

But from a theoretical perspective, this is clearly not part of the accommodations that DAS exists to provide. That doesn’t mean I fault you for using the system to your full advantage, but let’s not pretend that it doesn’t negatively impact the experiences of other guests. Somebody else is standing in a queue for a long period of time only for you and your party to walk from dinner straight onto the ride, further increasing their wait time. On a large enough scale, the effects can be major.

That’s why it behooves Disney to prevent people who don’t require accommodations from using the system at all and to limit the incidental benefits of the system for those who do require accommodations.

 

[Splash4eva]

There's definitely different kinds of "abuse." People lying to take advantage of the system are a huge problem and it sounds like we can both agree that constitutes "abuse." However, do you at least agree that you are likely using the system in a way that Disney didn't intend when they designed it? Can you concede that if every single DAS user used the system the way you are, then it would be responsible for a lot of the capacity problems we are seeing now?

Disney has designed a very generous system for DAS users. All the ADA requires is a "reasonable accomodation" that puts people with a disability on the same playing field as those without. They could certainly scale it back (and it sounds like they are!) without violating the ADA.

I agree obvious on the abuse…
Am i using it as disney designed not 100% when it comes to booking a ride during a dinner probably not. Do i feel thats causing the issue not really i feel the re rides are the biggest issue and yes i am guilty of that but how do you stop that and have a “fair” system vs non DAS guests its unfortunately impossible. It is really not difficult to get 3 DAS passes for almost any major attraction. As i have said in the past. If i choose to use my DAS that way. Listen when my daughter was younger my DAS basically never was used for any major attraction and when i did it was a solo ride. Does it balance out with guests most likely no. But to me as ive stater the re rides are the problem (which legally i dont know if you could) remove the 2 pre booking & Eli mate booking until after the ride is over. Thats a start

 

[Splash4eva]

From a logistical perspective, it would be very hard for Disney to combat against things like this (though there are some measures they could take to mitigate it, such as blocking you from securing a return time for a ride if you have a dining reservation in the interim).

But from a theoretical perspective, this is clearly not part of the accommodations that DAS exists to provide. That doesn’t mean I fault you for using the system to your full advantage, but let’s not pretend that it doesn’t negatively impact the experiences of other guests. Somebody else is standing in a queue for a long period of time only for you and your party to walk from dinner straight onto the ride, further increasing their wait time. On a large enough scale, the effects can be major.

That’s why it behooves Disney to prevent people who don’t require accommodations from using the system at all and to limit the incidental benefits of the system for those who do require accommodations.

Listen i have been very clear on my views with DAS when it comes ro how i use it the pros/cons etc of it. I have kept lists during my trip to what i have used Genie vs Das. I am able to get plenty booked via Genie hence why i still pay for it even with DAS. Does DAS help me “more” vs a regular guest? Maybe but there is a reason me & others need DAS so it imo balances out to a degree but yes having DAS and Genie i am able to do more attractions imo because of it but there are definitely times where stuff are walk ons its not needed

With all that being said. No system will ever be 100% equal. No system will he perfect. No system will make everyone happy. No system will stop people from lying about needing access.

 

[Purduevian]

For starters im trying to be as transparent and honest as possible… feel if im gonna have a debate/convo about DAS going to give the full story. Next regarding what you are saying. I dont feel like thats abusing the system or power using it. Its within all guidelines Disney allows and tell me anyone who would not take advantage of that? Again it is one of the bonuses of DAS which allows you to basically get a free ride during the day… abuse is an extremely strong word especially when we are using that term regarding people who are literally lying and committing fraud to obtain it.

I for one do not think you are abusing the system at all. You are doing exactly what I would do if I required DAS. However, your story does show why people would be tempted to "abuse" DAS. At lease the way I interpret "abuse" is people using the system that do not or should not qualify it but gain access through deceit.

The current system has 2 major problems.

1. The legitimate users (such as yourself) can (not all do) gain an advantage and utilize more of the ride capacity than a non DAS group
2. The advantages gained from DAS encourage unscrupulous guests to gain DAS for their group and thus utilize more of the ride capacity than they otherwise would have

 

[Drdcm]

Listen i have been very clear on my views with DAS when it comes ro how i use it the pros/cons etc of it. I have kept lists during my trip to what i have used Genie vs Das. I am able to get plenty booked via Genie hence why i still pay for it even with DAS. Does DAS help me “more” vs a regular guest? Maybe but there is a reason me & others need DAS so it imo balances out to a degree but yes having DAS and Genie i am able to do more attractions imo because of it but there are definitely times where stuff are walk ons its not needed

With all that being said. No system will ever be 100% equal. No system will he perfect. No system will make everyone happy. No system will stop people from lying about needing access.

You aren’t abusing it. You’re using the system as it is, which is fine. People that abuse it are lying about the disability or faking the disability.

I had someone this week that freaked out because I wouldn’t prescribe them an emotional support animal after the signed a new lease at a place that wouldn’t allow them to have dogs. There was no rationale for the animal other than that it would allow them to circumvent the lease. She fired me and told me she was just going to have someone online write the letter for her.

Personally, the threshold to write the letter for ADHD would be relatively high for me. Doesn’t mean I wouldn’t do it. But it would be harder because it’s highly treatable and symptoms can be controlled well with treatment. Autism, is a different beast and I would be more likely to write the letter.

 

[Splash4eva]

I for one do not think you are abusing the system at all. You are doing exactly what I would do if I required DAS. However, your story does show why people would be tempted to "abuse" DAS. At lease the way I interpret "abuse" is people using the system that do not or should not qualify it but gain access through deceit.

The current system has 2 major problems.

1. The legitimate users (such as yourself) can (not all do) gain an advantage and utilize more of the ride capacity than a non DAS group
2. The advantages gained from DAS encourage unscrupulous guests to gain DAS for their group and thus utilize more of the ride capacity than they otherwise would have

You make excellent points and agree i am not abusing the system to me abuse is someone who is lying. As i said. I tell Disney why i need it and leave it to them to say yes or no. I still buy Genie (bc imo its still needed). I never want Disney to accuse me of lying of why i am requesting DAS

 

[Splash4eva]

You aren’t abusing it. You’re using the system as it is, which is fine. People that abuse it are lying about the disability or faking the disability.

I had someone this week that freaked out because I wouldn’t prescribe them an emotional support animal after the signed a new lease at a place that wouldn’t allow them to have dogs. There was no rationale for the animal other than that it would allow them to circumvent the lease. She fired me and told me she was just going to have someone online write the letter for her.

Personally, the threshold to write the letter for ADHD would be relatively high for me. Doesn’t mean I wouldn’t do it. But it would be harder because it’s highly treatable and symptoms can be controlled well with treatment. Autism, is a different beast and I would be more likely to write the letter.

Good for you and dont want to get into that hot topic but ive seen “emotional support” animals more and more on parks. Literally being strolled around in some cases (i have pics somewhere lol) and other animals which are outright not trained. Basically people taking their pets into the parks… i have my thoughts but will not go down that road

 

[RememberWhen]

Maybe our situation is out of the normal.
My son qualifies for DAS. He’s old enough that when we went and he was little we used FP+. I had that system down. We pretty much never waited standby. And that worked great for us, so we never got GAC.

Once they transitioned to Genie+ we decided to try DAS. For a family of 5 Genie+ adds a lot.

During our most recent trip we utilized DAS and it made our trip much more manageable. We were able to ride teacups multiple times with minimal wait. We also had to leave the parks earlier than we would have liked almost everyday because DS really needed downtime at the hotel.

I have no issues with the DAS system changing. If it’s available to us we’ll use it. If not, we’ll adjust our budget to try to add Genie+ sometimes.

It costs nothing to be kind. Try to have compassion.

 

[EPCOT-O.G.]

Good for you and dont want to get into that hot topic but ive seen “emotional support” animals more and more on parks. Literally being strolled around in some cases (i have pics somewhere lol) and other animals which are outright not trained. Basically people taking their pets into the parks… i have my thoughts but will not go down that road

I have too. There was also a weird thread last year where this person (who, let’s presume they have a legitimate need for the service support animal) was upset because the “scare actors” at HHH didn’t dial it back when she came through. It inspired a lot of discussion as to the propriety of bringing in an animal to a sensory overload atmosphere where threats are inherent to the experience.

 

[DryerLintFan]

Thank you for bringing that up. The previous system basically allowed for instant front of the line access which is what the lawsuit was over (since DAS changed it to getting a return time later corresponding to the wait). The way that worked, it would have been much easier to repeatedly go on a ride which otherwise has a long wait time.

The return time corresponds to the wait time, minus 10 minutes. The reason is that this is the average time it takes to walk the LL queue once you’re in it.

Yeah, and that seems to be the basis for the lawsuit. Reasonable accommodation means making the process as similar as it would be for any non-disabled guest not needing accommodation. Asking people to pre-screen and fill out paperwork ahead of time isn't something you ask everyone to do.

Reading around the internet it seems universal did have a process in place where one could go to guest services and get a temporarily AAP, IBCCES card or not. As long as accommodation wasn't denied on site, there would be no issue.

I think the prescreen is a brilliant idea. They don’t let you in the park early to register at guest services, so in the past we’ve always had to use rope drop time strictly for this. I’m not honestly complaining because i truly appreciate the service, I’m just saying i really like that they’ve moved to a preregistration model. The lines at guest services in the mornings were swamped.

The preregistration for rides is a “perk” i don’t honestly understand. I think they should get rid of that entirely.

And they can, but they need to provide proof. That’s where the core change should be; regardless of whether you preschedule or show up asking, there is nothing illegal asking for proof of the accommodation needed

Those of us on this forum who use DAS have been saying for years and years now, we WISH Disney could ask for proof. That would make everything so much better. But every time I’ve bright doctors notes or hospital records, they’ve refused to look at them or listen to what they were. But i would 1000% provide proof happily if it meant there was less abuse of the system

 

[SamusAranX]

The return time corresponds to the wait time, minus 10 minutes. The reason is that this is the average time it takes to walk the LL queue once you’re in it.



I think the prescreen is a brilliant idea. They don’t let you in the park early to register at guest services, so in the past we’ve always had to use rope drop time strictly for this. I’m not honestly complaining because i truly appreciate the service, I’m just saying i really like that they’ve moved to a preregistration model. The lines at guest services in the mornings were swamped.

The preregistration for rides is a “perk” i don’t honestly understand. I think they should get rid of that entirely.



Those of us on this forum who use DAS have been saying for years and years now, we WISH Disney could ask for proof. That would make everything so much better. But every time I’ve bright doctors notes or hospital records, they’ve refused to look at them or listen to what they were. But i would 1000% provide proof happily if it meant there was less abuse of the system

Yep. I had my prescription proof ready to go just in case and they said “we don’t need to see that”. That’s the loophole people exploit

 

[Splash4eva]

I have too. There was also a weird thread last year where this person (who, let’s presume they have a legitimate need for the service support animal) was upset because the “scare actors” at HHH didn’t dial it back when she came through. It inspired a lot of discussion as to the propriety of bringing in an animal to a sensory overload atmosphere where threats are inherent to the experience.

As ive always said. You cant please everyone and can only try and make the best experience for everyone unfortunately its impossible to make everyone happy…

 

[Splash4eva]

Sadly there will be plenty of willing Drs to write notes for people especially for mild cases of DAS need… heck we see Drs write scripts for pills.

 

[doctornick]

The return time corresponds to the wait time, minus 10 minutes. The reason is that this is the average time it takes to walk the LL queue once you’re in it.

Just to be clear.... The previous disability service called Guest Assistance Card (GAC). When that was in effect, it was generally used to provide instant access to attractions (not a return time related to the posted wait). When it was changed to the current DAS system in 2013, they changed how it worked and guests would get a return time as opposed to entrance right into the Fastpass (now LL) line.

MY point in the previous post was that the lawsuit that @lentesta was quoting data from reflected how attractions were utilized under the previous system of GAC that operating differently than DAS. So I don't think you can make direct comparisons between the two.

 

[DryerLintFan]

Wrapping up the last few pages, it seems like everyone agrees Disney should:

1) stop issuing advance DAS selections

2) stop allowing subsequent DAS return times to be booked until after the ride is over (although I’m not sure how they’d know)

3) provide more places for guests to sit

 

[DryerLintFan]

Just to be clear.... The previous disability service called Guest Assistance Card (GAC). When that was in effect, it was generally used to provide instant access to attractions (not a return time related to the posted wait). When it was changed to the current DAS system in 2013, they changed how it worked and guests would get a return time as opposed to entrance right into the Fastpass (now LL) line.

MY point in the previous post was that the lawsuit that @lentesta was quoting data from reflected how attractions were utilized under the previous system of GAC that operating differently than DAS. So I don't think you can make direct comparisons between the two.

You and i are on the same page, lol. I wasn’t around for GAC but i made a similar post a couple pages back. It’s two different systems

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

MY point in the previous post was that the lawsuit that @lentesta was quoting data from reflected how attractions were utilized under the previous system of GAC that operating differently than DAS. So I don't think you can make direct comparisons between the two.

@lentesta also did a more recent experiment involving counting the number of people entering the LL for HM in a given hour. Since the number of G+ reservations distributed per hour was known, he was able to generally extrapolate how many people were entering the queue without G+. Now, there's no way to further break down that number into those with Club 33, those on VIP tours, and those with recovery passes, however the number of people entering the LL without G+ dwarfed the number entering with.

 

[Splash4eva]

You and i are on the same page, lol. I wasn’t around for GAC but i made a similar post a couple pages back. It’s two different systems

Why let facts get in the way of a good argument & debate lol

 

[lentesta]

@lentesta also did a more recent experiment involving counting the number of people entering the LL for HM in a given hour. Since the number of G+ reservations distributed per hour was known, he was able to generally extrapolate how many people were entering the queue without G+. Now, there's no way to further break down that number into those with Club 33, those on VIP tours, and those with recovery passes, however the number of people entering the LL without G+ dwarfed the number entering with.

Thank you. We actually counted VIP tours and they're a blip. I have a strong suspicion that the other groups you mention are basically rounding errors as well.