Disney confirms 'Frozen' makeover coming to Epcot's Norway Pavilion

[dstrawn9889]

why would the US care where those people work in WDW? just because you are a Norwegian does not mean you have to work in the Norway Pav., you just have to be a Norwegian to work in that pavilion... they can work basically anywhere on park

 

[RSoxNo1]

It's started

http://theadultsideofdisney.com/have-a-frozen-cocktail-at-disneys-hollywood-studios/

I'm pretty sure there were frozen cocktails last summer.

 

[RSoxNo1]

If you read the link that I posted, where I got the image from, it states that the drinks were being served in July 2014 until September. They were just temporary. I just shared the picture for an effect.

Sorry, I posted that on my phone, and admittedly didn't read the article.

 

[lazyboy97o]

why would the US care where those people work in WDW? just because you are a Norwegian does not mean you have to work in the Norway Pav., you just have to be a Norwegian to work in that pavilion... they can work basically anywhere on park

Politicians would care because those are jobs that could be going to Americans. Disney had changes implemented by the government to support World Showcase and those changes are no longer applicable to the Norway Pavilion, or even all of World Showcase according to some.

 

[englanddg]

But you're forgetting that those are fictional characters from actual representational places in the world (e.g. Mary Poppins from England, Aladdin and Jasmine from Morocco/North Africa, Snow White from Germany) either explicitly told in the tale, or from their story's origin that fits into places in the World Showcase. Praytell,where is Arendelle in Norway?

Nitpick.

Obviously this is Norway, cause there is snow and stuff.

 

[lazyboy97o]

But you're forgetting that those are fictional characters from actual representational places in the world (e.g. Mary Poppins from England, Aladdin and Jasmine from Morocco/North Africa, Snow White from Germany) either explicitly told in the tale, or from their story's origin that fits into places in the World Showcase. Praytell,where is Arendelle in Norway?

That is a rather poor distinction that is easily fixed by a line of dialogue tossed in somewhere or pointing to Arendal. The land is definitely Scandinavian. Where is Agrabah in the Arab world? Dialogue in the film points towards Arabia, which would be in Asia on the complete opposite side of Africa from Morocco. Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs never names a specific German kingdom or principality.

 

[englanddg]

That is a rather poor distinction that is easily fixed by a line of dialogue tossed in somewhere or pointing to Arendal. The land is definitely Scandinavian. Where is Agrabah in the Arab world? Dialogue in the film points towards Arabia, which would be in Asia on the complete opposite side of Africa from Morocco. Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs never names a specific German kingdom or principality.

The difference is...none of the others are taking over their "assumed" pavilions.

Frozen is.

 

[spacemt354]

That is a rather poor distinction that is easily fixed by a line of dialogue tossed in somewhere or pointing to Arendal. The land is definitely Scandinavian. Where is Agrabah in the Arab world? Dialogue in the film points towards Arabia, which would be in Asia on the complete opposite side of Africa from Morocco. Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs never names a specific German kingdom or principality.

Snow White is a German fairy tale. Aladdin is based on One Thousand and One Nights, and while it's origin is more vague, can be traced to North African folklore.

 

[doctornick]

Also, the Aladdin tale suggests that the setting is North Africa...I don't know who taught you your directions and continents, but you should seriously consider relearning them if you believe North Africa is in Asia...

While an Arabian tale, Aladdin is actually set in China.

 

[lazyboy97o]

The difference is...none of the others are taking over their "assumed" pavilions.

Frozen is.

Magnitude is a poor justification for distinction because it allows for a creeping rot. It's how you go from a meet and greet, to a ride to an entire pavilion.

I like what you said...Scandinavian. It is a Danish tale, not a Norweigan tale. It's basically saying it's okay to put Mulan in Japan because it's an Asian country.

Also, the Aladdin tale suggests that the setting is North Africa...I don't know who taught you your directions and continents, but you should seriously consider relearning them if you believe North Africa is in Asia...

Snow White is a German fairy tale. Aladdin is based on One Thousand and One Nights, and while it's origin is more vague, can be traced to North African folklore.

I'm going to reply to these together.

Frozen is not a Danish tale, and if it were the two countries spent many years as one.

One Thousand and One Nights has its origins in Persian folklore. The Aladdin story is originally set in China. The Disney film mentions Arabia, which is in Asia, not Africa and not near Morocco. This is a prime example of the huge flaw in your argument based around setting. The story is appropriate to the Morocco Pavilion and not the China Pavilion because it is a story rooted in Islamic culture.

 

[lazyboy97o]

We actually learned about this in my Medieval History class. Medieval adaptations and 18th century adaptations made it Arabesque due to the large amount of Muslims within the story. I would like to add that it is originally a Middle Eastern folk tale that was spread throughout all Muslim lands (like Morocco), which is why the film adapts Moroccan structure.

The Disney film never mentions anything Moorish or Moroccan. The opening song is "Arabian Nights." Arabia does not stretch across the Sahara.

 

[englanddg]

Magnitude is a poor justification for distinction because it allows for a creeping rot. It's how you go from a meet and greet, to a ride to an entire pavilion.

It's not a justification. It's what has happened. World Showcase is slowly turning into Fantasyland Version 2. We all know it, and yeah, started with the meet and greets, but Frozen is the first major leap...and it's the largest contextual leap (aside from slapping an Aladdin ride in Morocco, perhaps).

 

[spacemt354]

Magnitude is a poor justification for distinction because it allows for a creeping rot. It's how you go from a meet and greet, to a ride to an entire pavilion.



I'm going to reply to these together.

Frozen is not a Danish tale, and if it were the two countries spent many years as one.

One Thousand and One Nights has its origins in Persian folklore. The Aladdin story is originally set in China. The Disney film mentions Arabia, which is in Asia, not Africa and not near Morocco. This is a prime example of the huge flaw in your argument based around setting. The story is appropriate to the Morocco Pavilion and not the China Pavilion because it is a story rooted in Islamic culture.

I'm not even sure what your point is for all of this?

348 pages can be summed up in one sentence.

Frozen doesn't belong in Norway.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I'm not even sure what your point is for all of this?

348 pages can be summed up in one sentence.

Frozen doesn't belong in Norway.

My point is that the argument based on setting does not hold up as support for Frozen not belonging in the Norway Pavilion. That is why it is a constant point of attack by those who consider the film appropriate to World Showcase.

I'm assuming you've never studied Islamic culture or medieval history. You cannot base your geographic assumptions on today's geography. Arabia back in the time that the tale was written took place in the Middle East and throughout parts of North Africa. Don't base everything you know off of Wikipedia.

I'm a medieval history minor focusing on Christianity (studied the Muslim culture for a while since the two butt heads). I know my stuff and I know the tales that were famous in Muslim culture.

The "I'm in university studying [x]..." line is never something you should use to boost your point. You're not the only one with academic experience.

Your are confusing the Arab world and culture with the specific geographical region, the stated setting of the film. I am not disputing that the tale is part of Moroccon culture, there are a couple of somewhat lengthy posts in this thread authored by myself on why it is part of the culture. But the film never gets close to North Africa as its setting and specifically mentions Arabia while the original tale points toward China. That is why the argument from setting is so flawed, because while Aladdin is clearly part of Moroccon culture (and probably to the point of being one of the far and away most appropriate characters to include) the lack of analogous setting means it should be booted.

Frozen is clearly set in Scandivanvia and if it were more true to The Snow Queen being of Danish authorship is probably not enough reason to keep it out. It's a muddy distinction of nationality with larger cultural and historical overlaps that would make it a case similar to, but less entrenched than, the One Thousand and One Nights. Andersen was born in a politically united Denmark and Norway. A few tweaks to dialogue could have placed Frozen more clearly in Norway, but that should not be enough to suddenly make it work.

 

[Brer Panther]

Except for Mary Poppins, Alice, Pooh, Mulan, Aladdin & Jasmine, Snow White, Donald... WS is already crawling with characters. Many of them are right out in front of the pavilions or not far from the entrances.

Thing is, they don't have RIDES there. In fact, the only character to still have a ride of the eight you listed is Pooh, and his ride's in Fantasyland.

 

[Matt_Black]

Thing is, they don't have RIDES there. In fact, the only character to still have a ride of the eight you listed is Pooh, and his ride's in Fantasyland.

Actually, that's incorrect- remember, the post you quoted also mentioned Donald, and he DOES have a ride in Epcot. Aladdin and Alice also have rides but those are also in the Magic Kingdom with Pooh.

 

[bhg469]

It's funny, the people for this change seem to be those who genuinely dislike epcot to begin with. For me it was my favorite park by far. If a person dislikes it from the beginning then anything that changes it to make them like it more would make sense.

 

[vinnya1726]

This debate is fascinating. I think everyone can agree that EPCOT needs some retooling. Even the most ardent of EPCOT lovers would admit that, should Frozen go in EPCOT I think that is one that has been debated over and over again. I think while, it may not be the best place we should at least give Disney a chance to show us what the vision is before we write them off. In all honesty, EPCOT has bigger problems than the thematic continuity of WS, FW has no real continuity of the theme either. We are not going to return to 1983, but we do not need to throw out the stuff that works. Should the characters have a presence in EPCOT, I think that depends...if EPCOT is going to be a family park then yes, but if like many seem to want that it is an adult playground for drinking around the world, then no. Keep the films and attractions in WS that are based on 1983 and do not take into account how children or even most adults learn these days. WS is one the most beautiful places on property, it can stay that way and accomplish both...problem is nobody will be happy. If you think of it, Disney is in a loose-loose situation. Even if this Frozen ride is the greatest thing ever created (it won't be), people will not give it a chance. Oh well.

 

[spacemt354]

This debate is fascinating. I think everyone can agree that EPCOT needs some retooling. Even the most ardent of EPCOT lovers would admit that, should Frozen go in EPCOT I think that is one that has been debated over and over again. I think while, it may not be the best place we should at least give Disney a chance to show us what the vision is before we write them off. In all honesty, EPCOT has bigger problems than the thematic continuity of WS, FW has no real continuity of the theme either. We are not going to return to 1983, but we do not need to throw out the stuff that works. Should the characters have a presence in EPCOT, I think that depends...if EPCOT is going to be a family park then yes, but if like many seem to want that it is an adult playground for drinking around the world, then no. Keep the films and attractions in WS that are based on 1983 and do not take into account how children or even most adults learn these days. WS is one the most beautiful places on property, it can stay that way and accomplish both...problem is nobody will be happy. If you think of it, Disney is in a loose-loose situation. Even if this Frozen ride is the greatest thing ever created (it won't be), people will not give it a chance. Oh well.

The good news is...if it's a good ride, the complaints about replacing Maelstrom will die down...

The bad news is...if it's a good ride, it will only encourage Disney to continue the character overhauls of other pavilions, thus instigating a new argument that WS and Epcot as a whole has ceased to be a unique offering in WDW.

The even worse news is, if it's a half-hearted ride, it will still be popular, thus encouraging Disney to continue the character overhauls in WS, and reinforcing them to do it in a half-hearted manner, completely destroying the park.

 

[wdisney9000]

we should at least give Disney a chance to show us what the vision is before we write them off.

Frozen in Norway pavilion is a lack of vision.

Should the characters have a presence in EPCOT, I think that depends...if EPCOT is going to be a family park then yes

When has Epcot ever not been a family park?

WS is one the most beautiful places on property, it can stay that way and accomplish both

How is that possible without blurring the lines of identity between theme parks which is the very essence of their creation? The beauty lies within the distinct diversity.