Be straight with me!!

[ZapperZ]

But isn't there is another aspect to why some people finance their DVC purchase - tax deductions? Since it is considered as a mortgage payment of a 2nd home, some people can deduct the interest (maybe partially) off their tax returns.

So in the end, the financing can be not that costly either.

Zz.

 

[ConstanceIrene]

People finance over the whole ten years because it's the only way they can afford it, and here in America, yes, it's normal. Should it be normal? Of course not, but people in this country will always spend way more money than they have. Thus the reason the average person's credit card debt is over 8 THOUSAND dollars, and that figure climbs every year. It's ridiculous. The abnormal people are the ones that CAN afford it, and pay it off right away. It's rare, and that's all there is to it.

This is the reason I'm posting what I am. Those that finance will spend a LOT more on DVC than they would by simply using well-known discounts on Disney Resorts and tickets. Would they in the long run? Of course not, but that's not what the normal person has to worry about. They worry abot the here and now, and DVC will only add too their monthly bills.

Once again, I'm not against the DVC or any other timeshare program. I think the DVC is fantastic. It works great for those that can afford it, but many get suckered in who can't afford it, and it can really ruin them financially when they could have been fine visiting the mouse the usual way.

I realize that you are not against DVC, but think an alternate opinion should be expressed before folks get in over their heads and pocketbooks. Unfortunately, people are going to spend on all kinds of things without full consideration of how to pay for it.

Some people finance over 10 years, not most. These are the same people who lease or buy more expensive cars than they should drive, refinance their homes to build on more extensions than they need (thus wiping out any equity), and eat in restaurants more often than they stay home and cook. These people are going to finance a trip to WDW anyway, so they might as well finance a vested interest in vacations to come.

My family is not abnormal because we didn't put ourselves in hock to join DVC. The timing was right, our finances permitted it, and it remains one of the best investments we've made. We weren't suckered in. It took us over a year to make up our minds and see how we could handle the cost. There was never any pressure from our rep, Celeste. She was terrific.

Again, I'd like to hear some stats on the average finance time for a DVC purchase. Can a DVC rep out there help us out?

 

[DisneyPhD]

In a recent “survey” I saw on another site with many more DVC members than here, around 60% of buyers financed some or all of the purchase, however the majority of the people that replied to the poll also paid the balance off in 1 year or transferred the balance either to a HELOC (which has certain tax advantages) or to a low (e.g. 2%) or zero % interest credit card.

Not very scientific, but some data is better than none.

 

[Main Street USA]

That seems about right. I'm going to bow out now, though. It seems ConstanceIrene is getting offended by my use of the word "abnormal." Geez, I'm trying to make a simple point that DVC is VERY EXPENSIVE, and if you finance it, you will be paying more than you otherwise would for the first ten years, and it doesn't matter if you finance it through Disney, or even get a HELOC. You'll still be paying more for those years. if you can make it through that time, then go for it. Bye.

 

[DisneyPhD]

That seems about right. I'm going to bow out now, though. It seems ConstanceIrene is getting offended by my use of the word "abnormal." Geez, I'm trying to make a simple point that DVC is VERY EXPENSIVE, and if you finance it, you will be paying more than you otherwise would for the first ten years, and it doesn't matter if you finance it through Disney, or even get a HELOC. You'll still be paying more for those years. if you can make it through that time, then go for it. Bye.

I suppose the definition of expensive is a relative one. WDW in general is an expensive vacation. I paid less for DVC than any of the last 3 vehicles I purchased (in the last 7 years and I bought DVC 4 years ago). I pay less in dues for DVC than I do to keep my car running (gas = $800-900, Ins $400-500). I spend about 225 hours in my car commuting each year compared to the 240 hours I typically spend at WDW in a given year. I'll be happy with my car if I can squeeze 10 years out of it (3 to go). With DVC I still have 36 years to go. I don't have a problem with being abnormal but "in the minority" might be a better way to go.

 

[ConstanceIrene]

That seems about right. I'm going to bow out now, though. It seems ConstanceIrene is getting offended by my use of the word "abnormal." Geez, I'm trying to make a simple point that DVC is VERY EXPENSIVE, and if you finance it, you will be paying more than you otherwise would for the first ten years, and it doesn't matter if you finance it through Disney, or even get a HELOC. You'll still be paying more for those years. if you can make it through that time, then go for it. Bye.

I wasn't offended. You have to come with much more than "abnormal" to offend. I disagreed with your statements and asked for statistics to back up your claim. DisneyPhD supplied the stats we needed and you bowed out. That's fine, but don't use me as the reason. That's offensive.

 

[Main Street USA]

I wasn't offended. You have to come with much more than "abnormal" to offend. I disagreed with your statements and asked for statistics to back up your claim. DisneyPhD supplied the stats we needed and you bowed out. That's fine, but don't use me as the reason. That's offensive.

I didn't bow out because of stats. I know enough about the general american public, and have read enough about people overextending themselves into timeshares to know it's a normal thing that happens.

I'm bowing out because I'm repeating myself over and over, and neither of you will seem to admit to the fact that is is very expensive. That's all. Not a big deal. Have a good one.

 

[gcbsdad]

First of all, we are DVC owners who purchased last September. And to agree to your point, yes, it is expensive but just going to WDW is expensive. We are a family of 6 and only live about 60 miles from WDW. So we go to WDW probably more often than most but take shorter trips. We weighed heavily the cost but a big factor for us was also the room size. Sure we could have rented DVC points but that can be really expensive. I know lots of people who rent and stay in deluxe resorts who would have saved allot of money if they were DVC members. If you are a smaller family and only go to Value resorts then maybe this isn't for you.

I think the bottom line is this is a personal decision that you and your family need to make.

 

[DisneyPhD]

I didn't bow out because of stats. I know enough about the general american public, and have read enough about people overextending themselves into timeshares to know it's a normal thing that happens.

I'm bowing out because I'm repeating myself over and over, and neither of you will seem to admit to the fact that is is very expensive. That's all. Not a big deal. Have a good one.

Sorry, I thought I was helping you out with the stats. It's expensive in the sense that you're paying it all up front but in our opinion, it's going to save us in the long run.
Here's some more numbers for you to think about. We paid about $12000 to purchase DVC. Add to that $2800 in dues total for the 4 years we've owned. That's $14800. For that we've stayed a grand total of 57 nights (mostly in studios but some in 1 BR) at BCV, VWL, SSR, OKW and VB. That comes to $260 per night (which is below Rack Rate). That's if I stopped using DVC right now and just let WDW have it back. The longer I hold on to my DVC the lower the per night cost gets.
How do you feel about annual passes? They're expensive and expire too (pre-paid theme park admission), but it can save you money if it fits your needs. We spent 21 days in the parks on our last AP that we paid $300 (with $100 DVC discount). That comes to $14 per day.
Is $12000 a lot of money? Yes, it was money well spent. Now we just need to reap the rewards of it for the next 36 years.:sohappy:

 

[Main Street USA]

Sorry, I thought I was helping you out with the stats. It's expensive in the sense that you're paying it all up front but in our opinion, it's going to save us in the long run.
Here's some more numbers for you to think about. We paid about $12000 to purchase DVC. Add to that $2800 in dues total for the 4 years we've owned. That's $14800. For that we've stayed a grand total of 57 nights (mostly in studios but some in 1 BR) at BCV, VWL, SSR, OKW and VB. That comes to $260 per night (which is below Rack Rate). That's if I stopped using DVC right now and just let WDW have it back. The longer I hold on to my DVC the lower the per night cost gets.
How do you feel about annual passes? They're expensive and expire too (pre-paid theme park admission), but it can save you money if it fits your needs. We spent 21 days in the parks on our last AP that we paid $300 (with $100 DVC discount). That comes to $14 per day.
Is $12000 a lot of money? Yes, it was money well spent. Now we just need to reap the rewards of it for the next 36 years.:sohappy:

Again, I totally agree with all of that, I never once said I didn't. It definitely saves money in the long run, but it's very expensive up front. Ten years after you buy it, you're saving a fortune if you would normally be staying in a DVC place. For those that would normally stay in a regular room, it makes no sense.

It all depends on nothing more than the person or family that is considering purchasing. Great for one family, awful for another. Simple as that.

I've been through the presentation and gone over all the details. It's a great program if you're able to utilize it. Some people can, some people can't. Everyone considering it should not ask for advice here, but rather go get educated themselves and then decide.

 

[Main Street USA]

First of all, we are DVC owners who purchased last September. And to agree to your point, yes, it is expensive but just going to WDW is expensive. We are a family of 6 and only live about 60 miles from WDW. So we go to WDW probably more often than most but take shorter trips. We weighed heavily the cost but a big factor for us was also the room size. Sure we could have rented DVC points but that can be really expensive. I know lots of people who rent and stay in deluxe resorts who would have saved allot of money if they were DVC members. If you are a smaller family and only go to Value resorts then maybe this isn't for you.

I think the bottom line is this is a personal decision that you and your family need to make.

Perfect post, and great points. You're a family of six who needs a larger room, and maybe even extra rooms. It's perfect for you. Congrats on purchasing! I'm sure you won't regret it.

 

[DisneyPhD]

Again, I totally agree with all of that, I never once said I didn't. It definitely saves money in the long run, but it's very expensive up front. Ten years after you buy it, you're saving a fortune if you would normally be staying in a DVC place. For those that would normally stay in a regular room, it makes no sense.

It all depends on nothing more than the person or family that is considering purchasing. Great for one family, awful for another. Simple as that.

I've been through the presentation and gone over all the details. It's a great program if you're able to utilize it. Some people can, some people can't. Everyone considering it should not ask for advice here, but rather go get educated themselves and then decide.

Yay, we've reached common ground. I usually say the same thing that DVC is not right for everyone, but it's great for us. You need to look at your travel habits and expectations and proceed from there to determine if DVC is a good fit.

 

[Main Street USA]

Yay, we've reached common ground. I usually say the same thing that DVC is not right for everyone, but it's great for us. You need to look at your travel habits and expectations and proceed from there to determine if DVC is a good fit.

Yeah, my wife and I almost bought a few years back, but until we know that kids are upcoming, we simply don't have a use for it. Right now, we're enjoying taking our pick of the 20 something resorts on property to fit our tastes for each trip.

I don't think there's any doubt we'll purchase in the near future, though, especially if the rumor concerning the Contemporary becoming part DVC comes true. That would be really nice, as we would love to constantly stay on the Seven Seas Lagoon or Bay Lake, not to mention the proximity to the Magic Kingdom.

 

[DisneyPhD]

Yeah, my wife and I almost bought a few years back, but until we know that kids are upcoming, we simply don't have a use for it. Right now, we're enjoying taking our pick of the 20 something resorts on property to fit our tastes for each trip.

I don't think there's any doubt we'll purchase in the near future, though, especially if the rumor concerning the Contemporary becoming part DVC comes true. That would be really nice, as we would love to constantly stay on the Seven Seas Lagoon or Bay Lake, not to mention the proximity to the Magic Kingdom.

Same here, we didn't buy until we had our first daughter (she was 9 months old on her first trip and when we started looking into DVC). We also were not in a position to buy prior to that time.
We spent 1996-2001 bouncing between the moderate resorts and were just starting to try out the deluxes when we were bit by the DVC bug.
Contemporary seems to be the leading rumor but if it happens it won't be for a few years. Maybe it will be ready when you are!

 

[slappy magoo]

Yeah, my wife and I almost bought a few years back, but until we know that kids are upcoming, we simply don't have a use for it. Right now, we're enjoying taking our pick of the 20 something resorts on property to fit our tastes for each trip.

Not to run things into the ground, but there's something to be said for buying into DVC and paying it off BEFORE having kids. This way, you know that, whatever else might happens, you can always afford a trip to WDW. Meanwhile, you can always use your points at other locations throughout the country and around the world. DVC has agreements with Interval and other time-share companies that allow DVC members to use their points at many of their resorts as well.

Plus, being a DVC members givs you cheaper prices on annual passes, and having annual passes = passholder rates at the resorts. Meaning, you could go to WDW in, say, October, stay at a DVC resort & buy an annual pass. Then, if you want, go one or two more times over the course of that 12-month period, paying for hotel rooms with the Passholder rate (assuming you're not going when blackout rates apply). Then, the following year, use your points to go to California, or Quebec, or Ireland, or anywhere else the points are valid.

Not going for the hard sell, I promise, I'm just saying, there's options.

 

[Main Street USA]

Not to run things into the ground, but there's something to be said for buying into DVC and paying it off BEFORE having kids. This way, you know that, whatever else might happens, you can always afford a trip to WDW. Meanwhile, you can always use your points at other locations throughout the country and around the world. DVC has agreements with Interval and other time-share companies that allow DVC members to use their points at many of their resorts as well.

Plus, being a DVC members givs you cheaper prices on annual passes, and having annual passes = passholder rates at the resorts. Meaning, you could go to WDW in, say, October, stay at a DVC resort & buy an annual pass. Then, if you want, go one or two more times over the course of that 12-month period, paying for hotel rooms with the Passholder rate (assuming you're not going when blackout rates apply). Then, the following year, use your points to go to California, or Quebec, or Ireland, or anywhere else the points are valid.

Not going for the hard sell, I promise, I'm just saying, there's options.

No, no, I understand, and you're not beating it into the ground. This is what this board is for.....discussion.

My only problem with doing what you said is still the initial 15,000, or whatever they charge now. It might cost less for an annual pass, or look like a trip costs less, but in reality, you've still paid much more until about eight or ten years down the road. I can just renew my Premium annual right now for about $50 less than buying a new one, and still do great on resort prices.

We've considered the investment side of it, as well, but to do it solely for that purpose seems a little silly, being that there are other ways to invest your moeny and make much more.

The big positive in buying now rather than later seems to be that the cost of DVC will continue to rise year by year. However, I can always buy resale from someone else, and pay about half price, and keep every single benefit of buying new, AND get more points.

Ha, there are so many ins and outs it can sometimes seem overwhelming, but as of right now, I think we're doing the right thing by simply looking forward to a larger family as DVC owners in the future.

 

[Main Street USA]

Same here, we didn't buy until we had our first daughter (she was 9 months old on her first trip and when we started looking into DVC). We also were not in a position to buy prior to that time.
We spent 1996-2001 bouncing between the moderate resorts and were just starting to try out the deluxes when we were bit by the DVC bug.
Contemporary seems to be the leading rumor but if it happens it won't be for a few years. Maybe it will be ready when you are!

That would really be perfect for us. I'm crossing my fingers for it!

 

[slappy magoo]

Main Street USA, I see your point, but if you're thinking about how benefits don't cover costs for 8 to 10 years, ask yourself this: How much will comparably-sized resort rooms be 8-10 years from now, let alone 40 or nearly 50? The price to book a hotel room goes up pretty much every year or every other year. The first time I went to WDW as an adult, paying my own way, was in May of '96. My ex-wife and I stayed at what was then called Dixie Landings, and we booked our trip through AAA. Being a pack rat, about a year ago I found some brochures given to me at the time in a pile of other old stuff. Don't have them in front of me, but I believe the brochures said, at that time, Dixie Landings rooms started at $79/nightly. Now rooms start at $139/nightly. In 10 years the cost of a standard room at the same resort during off-peak days went up 60 dollars. Now, I could be wrong. Maybe the resorts started at $99 a night. That still means staying a week would cost you, after tax, almost $275 more than it did 10 years ago. I'm no economist, but I wouldn't be surprised if even the lesser number outpaced inflation.

By my buying into DVC now, no matter how expensive the cost for a room might get, even if in my middle-aged years I'm forced to take an early retirement, no matter how tight money get, I'll never have to say "I'm paying HOW much a night?" if I wanted to visit WDW. There will always be deals and discounts to be found for the discerning visitor, but with DVC, you don't really have to worry about looking for them. The only negative drawback would be if they raised the dues up to ridiculous levels, and the same could be true of any time share.

It's a corny thing to say, and I'm sad to say, I thought it up myself even before a DVC agent said it to me (which of course, she did): I don't think of DVC as a time-share, so much as the opportunity to insure I'll always be able to afford a trip to WDW, no matter how expensive everything else in life might get. And if you expect to have kids, the trips will of course be even more expensive. Just because there's no immediate cost benefit, AND just because there are other better financial values out there for people looking to buy a time-share as opposed to people who would always want to vacation at WDW on-property, doesn't mean there's not an appreciable value to buying into DVC as early as possible.

 

[HauntedPirate]

Well, I don't believe you can buy into DVC for half of today's prices. The cheapest I've seen is in the upper $70's per point. Ok, just checked around it's $63 per point, at Vero Beach. Close to half, I guess... almost.

What helped us swallow the upfront cost is when you spread that out over 50 years, it's peanuts. Something like $3.80 per point is what we'll end up paying, factoring in inflation. For us, that sounded like a really good price to pay for deluxe-class accomodations for the next 50 years.

 

[Main Street USA]

Main Street USA, I see your point, but if you're thinking about how benefits don't cover costs for 8 to 10 years, ask yourself this: How much will comparably-sized resort rooms be 8-10 years from now, let alone 40 or nearly 50? The price to book a hotel room goes up pretty much every year or every other year. The first time I went to WDW as an adult, paying my own way, was in May of '96. My ex-wife and I stayed at what was then called Dixie Landings, and we booked our trip through AAA. Being a pack rat, about a year ago I found some brochures given to me at the time in a pile of other old stuff. Don't have them in front of me, but I believe the brochures said, at that time, Dixie Landings rooms started at $79/nightly. Now rooms start at $139/nightly. In 10 years the cost of a standard room at the same resort during off-peak days went up 60 dollars. Now, I could be wrong. Maybe the resorts started at $99 a night. That still means staying a week would cost you, after tax, almost $275 more than it did 10 years ago. I'm no economist, but I wouldn't be surprised if even the lesser number outpaced inflation.

By my buying into DVC now, no matter how expensive the cost for a room might get, even if in my middle-aged years I'm forced to take an early retirement, no matter how tight money get, I'll never have to say "I'm paying HOW much a night?" if I wanted to visit WDW. There will always be deals and discounts to be found for the discerning visitor, but with DVC, you don't really have to worry about looking for them. The only negative drawback would be if they raised the dues up to ridiculous levels, and the same could be true of any time share.

It's a corny thing to say, and I'm sad to say, I thought it up myself even before a DVC agent said it to me (which of course, she did): I don't think of DVC as a time-share, so much as the opportunity to insure I'll always be able to afford a trip to WDW, no matter how expensive everything else in life might get. And if you expect to have kids, the trips will of course be even more expensive. Just because there's no immediate cost benefit, AND just because there are other better financial values out there for people looking to buy a time-share as opposed to people who would always want to vacation at WDW on-property, doesn't mean there's not an appreciable value to buying into DVC as early as possible.

Heya!

I totally agree with you, and I don't see anywhere where I posted differently.

I've said numerous times that it's well worth the cost in the long run, which is ultimately what you're saying with your post.