Another Test Eliminating Standby - now at Anna & Elsa M&G

[dadddio]

What I mean by that is Anna and Elsa FPs 99% of the time are gone on the 60 day mark and most people can't even get a FP for it on their 60th booking day. How are they telling guests to get a FP+ for it when all the fast passes are gone?!? Sure they can hand out more fast passes, but all that is gonna do is still keep the line very long and not reduce the line like they are claiming with this new set up. This doesn't solve the line problem at all.

If I am understanding the test correctly, they are not simply dumping all available slots into the MDE system for preselection. As I understand it, the number of FP+s available for prereservation isn't changing. Instead, they are holding back all of the one's previously alloted to SB. They are then, as some one put it, priming the pump with an hours worth of guests in line and then allowing FP+ assignment for the remainder of the slots.

The downside of this test is the same as for every previous test. Those that show up in the afternoon are unable to wait in a long line to see S&E. It doesn't freeze out 'day of' guests from being able to do the M&G, however.

 

[dadddio]

Things like this are the reason DCL and DLR will be getting our dollars in the future instead of WDW. Until they get this whole mess called MDE and FP+ figured out, we're all set. We have 1 park planned on our November trip and it's during a party when FP+ isn't available. After that, we have no plans to set foot in a WDW park until fall of 2016, and even that is only a maybe.

If we're not in line for a ride, we're NOT going to go spend more money at the shops. No chance. I'm sure there are families who blow through money on their trips without even thinking twice, but I'm sure there are lots of familes who have saved for years for this trip and only have a set amount to spend on souvenirs, food, etc... We have a set budget and nothing they can do will make us spend more than we planned.

It seems that the changes will help you, in that case, since you can go do other attractions instead of wasting your time in the shops.

 

[BrerJon]

So after it hits 1 hr, then they shut it down for the rest of the day and only let in people with fastpasses? That literally makes no sense to me. Why have the standby line at all?

I haven't yet had the chance to experience FP+/MDE, but I'm glad DLP hasn't adopted it yet. It feels so good to be able to still rush to get paper fastpasses as soon as you get there.

You're so lucky Disneyland has stayed away, Fastpass+ is awful. I can see, a few years down the track, them introducing paper ones (and spending a ton of money on machines that print them), that you can get at any time instead of having to schedule in advance. That would be awesome.

 

[dadddio]

As I've said before, what if this were extended to every attraction/dining experience. What would you do while waiting for your return time? Shop? Visit the bathroom?

I'm not sure that such an unlikely scenario is even worth pondering. Of course, it should be noted that even if this procedure was extended to every single attraction, only a few would ever use it as the standby lines for most attractions wouldn't be long enough (one hour) to trigger the procedure.

 

[PolynesianPrincess]

It seems that the changes will help you, in that case, since you can go do other attractions instead of wasting your time in the shops.

That may be true, but it may not. If no one is in line for Anna and Elsa, where are they? In line for all the other attractions. It's just going to cause longer waits at all the attractions that don't offer return times for later on.

 

[BrerJon]

It seems that the changes will help you, in that case, since you can go do other attractions instead of wasting your time in the shops.

Firstly, if they switch all attractions to Fastpass- only, then there wouldn't be anything else to do if all rides are full and you've used up your daily allowance.

Secondly, this all assumes all attractions are equal, and people don't care what they do, as long as they do something. What about if someone decides, spontaneously, one morning that they want to pop over to Magic Kingdom for an afternoon and wants to do Splash Mountain, Space Mountain and the Country Bears, but thats it. They've no interest in doing anything else, but by the time they get their tickets, or get to the park, two out of three have no FP left for the day, and there is no standby line. If that was me, I'd ask for my money back then go home.

 

[BrerJon]

That may be true, but it may not. If no one is in line for Anna and Elsa, where are they? In line for all the other attractions. It's just going to cause longer waits at all the attractions that don't offer return times for later on.

That's the idea... you see it clearly in Epcot, where rides that used to be walk-ons now have 30 minute lines. Fastpass+ is designed to spread crowds evenly across all attractions, as it's based on a guest survey that said people don't care what they ride, just the number of rides they get to see.

That stinks for those who are interested in specific attractions though.

 

[dadddio]

That's not the only difference. There is a very real possibility that the number of guests turned away is going to increase substantially, and for them, we can safely assume guest satisfaction has not increased; Quite the opposite.

I'm not seeing how that could happen.

X=total guests interested in meeting A&E
Y=total guests that can be accomodated
Z=total guests that cannot be accomodated

X-Y=Z no matter which process that you are using.

The Anna & Elsa meet & greet remains very popular, and as you point out, this test does nothing to change the actual capacity of the "attraction". Presumably everyone who previously waited in hours-long queues to meet them will still wish to do so, but now all the people who weren't willing to wait hours and hours just to pose with some attractive young female CM's - and therefore passed on the "attraction" - will now be competing for the same M&G capacity as before. There is a world of difference between being shut out of an experience, and disappointed, versus choosing not to do it because its not worth three hours of your time.

Not really. Either way, the guest is being disappointed.

Just to verify, once the initial hours worth of queue is filled, no further guests are admitted standby for the remainder of the day, correct? If the additional allotment of FP+ is exhausted at some point during the day, with no standby, late arriving guests are completely shut out?

Presumably, but since those FP+s are now in the MDE system, some may come available as the day goes on.

A more important question, in my opinion, is whether these same-day FP+s increment against your FP+ allotment. In which case, I imagine that those people who made FP+ prereservations that did not include the A&E M&G are going to be shut out every time.

 

[dadddio]

I miss 'first come, first served' at WDW. Now we cater to laziness because heaven forbid somebody actually has to walk somewhere in the parks to get a FP so everyone has a fair chance at riding. But the same people who didn't want to use FP machines because they claimed they were "running all over the parks" wasting time, now have to waste the same amount of time, if not more, waiting to wait in another line or waiting to use a kiosk. Then they turn around and defend their deity which is WDW and it's management, because 'everything Disney does is for customer satisfaction and to make your trip more Magical!' We will just ignore the fact that Rasullo has said many times to wall street that it's about getting you to spend more money. Yeah, that wasn't real, Disney would never do that

Isn't this process '1st come, 1st served'? Those who get a FP+ first get to do the m&g. Those that don't, not so much.

 

[dadddio]

And, of course, this "return time" idea without a chance to wait in line also disregards their own planning system itself: What if you have ADRs during the return time, at a nice restaurant, with the required CREDIT CARD GUARANTEE? If you have no option to do standby you will have to choose between Anna/Elsa and losing your credit card deposit.

Since these 'return times' have been folded into the FP+ system, there is some ability to choose a return time that works for you.

 

[dadddio]

I can't even.

The bolded makes perfect sense. Data mine the crap out of it, they paid enough for it.

But having stayed up for my coveted FP+ (because I am Elsa and I will meet her!! ) the idea that when I get there at 3:10 I could still need to wait an hour, because someone who got there the day of (who I think should of course be able to have their M&G, but can enjoy their line) is now in front of me.

I dislike that. I'm thinking I won't be the only one who dislikes that. Maybe the system will allow for differentiation between pre-booking and day of?

I wonder how long the FP+ return wait was in the middle of the afternoon prior to this test. After all, it's not as if they let every FP+ guest go first and only allowed a SB guest to move ahead if there were absolutely no FP+ guests in line. They had to fold the two lines together. This resulted in some amount of wait even for FP+ guests.

Oh and if there are only three locations soon - at one point can I just add them on my phone?! And get a MM+ external battery.

Crossing my fingers...

 

[dadddio]

That may be true, but it may not. If no one is in line for Anna and Elsa, where are they? In line for all the other attractions. It's just going to cause longer waits at all the attractions that don't offer return times for later on.

Sure, these guests will be spread out through the entire park. This will result in incremental wait time increases for other attractions. It really isn't that different than when they implemented FP+. Wait times for e-attractions fell some. Wait times for traditional 'walk-on' attractions went up a bit. Wait times for other rides stayed pretty much the same.

 

[dadddio]

Firstly, if they switch all attractions to Fastpass- only, then there wouldn't be anything else to do if all rides are full and you've used up your daily allowance.

Secondly, this all assumes all attractions are equal, and people don't care what they do, as long as they do something. What about if someone decides, spontaneously, one morning that they want to pop over to Magic Kingdom for an afternoon and wants to do Splash Mountain, Space Mountain and the Country Bears, but thats it. They've no interest in doing anything else, but by the time they get their tickets, or get to the park, two out of three have no FP left for the day, and there is no standby line. If that was me, I'd ask for my money back then go home.

If that scenario ever happens, I'll be right there with you.

 

[RayTheFirefly]

I'm not sure that such an unlikely scenario is even worth pondering. Of course, it should be inoted that even if this procedure was extended to every single attraction, only a few would ever use it as the standby lines for most attractions wouldn't be long enough (one hour) to trigger the procedure.

That's very optimistic thinking. The point still stands that ideas like this suck the spontaneity out of going to WDW.

 

[dadddio]

That's very optimistic thinking. The point still stands that ideas like this suck the spontaneity out of going to WDW.

I disagree that not worrying about a very unlikely hypothetical scenario is 'being optimistic', but whatever.

 

[RayTheFirefly]

I disagree that not worrying about a very unlikely hypothetical scenario is 'being optimistic', but whatever.

I also disagree that refusing to acknowledge potential negative outcomes is good, reasonable thinking.

 

[dadddio]

I also disagree that refusing to acknowledge potential negative outcomes is good, reasonable thinking.

What you proposed wasn't a potential negative outcome of this test. It was hypothetical negative outcomes of a hypothetical expansion of a possible implementation of the test. As such, I'd be happy to discuss it if it were every suggested by the company that it would be put into place. Otherwise, it's like discussing the possibility that they are going to bulldoze MK. Such a topic doesn't beg serious discussion.

 

[RayTheFirefly]

What you proposed wasn't a potential negative outcome of this test. It was hypothetical negative outcomes of a hypothetical expansion of a possibly implementation of the test. As such, I'd be happy to discuss it if it were every suggested by the company that it would be put into place. Otherwise, it's like discussing the possibility that they are going to bulldoze MK. Such a topic doesn't beg serious discussion.

The point of a test is just that. To test it and its results. If the results are what they want, then there's no reason for them to not expand it. It's not preposterous to suggest it could become much more prevalent.

I also mentioned the gradual dissolution of opportunities for spontaneity, which you also haven't acknowledged.

 

[dadddio]

I also mentioned the gradual dissolution of opportunities for spontaneity, which you also haven't acknowledged.

I didn't realize that I was required to respond to every word that you or anyone else types. I thought that this was an internet forum, not my job.

That being said, here's my response to that issue: It is true that having reservations for a restaurant or FP+s for an attraction reduces a person's spontaneity. It is the price of being able to eat where you want or experience a popular attraction without undue wait. That's a trade that I've been willing to make for several years now. Loads of other people also apparently freely chose to make this trade.

 

[dadddio]

Well true. But on most times it's an even mix. Now if we're all in the same line, at 3:10 when I can enter the line, I'm an hour out. Before I was behind the people with 2:10 to 3:05 reservations who are physically in front of me, with SB mixed. But your result is more of the person who comes in with the valid FP waits ten minutes or so, the person who got in line with SB at 45 minutes is waiting 45 minutes.

I think that those two wait times are unlikely if the combined wait time under the current test is approaching an hour. Obviously, the test's wait time can't be a true average of the two times (factoring in number of people in both lines) because some (many, probably) people will choose to get a same-day FP+ where they would have skipped a very long SB line. Still, the very fact that the SB line is allowed to grow to an hour prior to this process kicking in suggests that previous wait times got pretty darn long.