A Spirited Dirty Dozen ...

[PhotoDave219]

Accept... or accept this is really the only people publishing anything on the topic?

It's like being the winner of a one person race.

Universal & Sea World use them in their SEC filings. They match closely with what Disney puts in their annual reports (based on what @ParentsOf4 came up with)..... so Yeah, as much as I'd love a lot of transparency on the topic, i'm fine with it.

 

[flynnibus]

Universal & Sea World use them in their SEC filings. They match closely with what Disney puts in their annual reports (based on what @ParentsOf4 came up with)..... so Yeah, as much as I'd love a lot of transparency on the topic, i'm fine with it.

Being independent, it's a nice thing you can cite without concern... and of course as long as it fits the story you want to tell.. and of course you can still influence those numbers to be what you want. A nice win-win for companies huh?

 

[TalkingHead]

Chinese Billionaire Takes On Disney With His Own Theme Parks

DAVID GREENE, HOST:

Next month, Disney will open a $5 billion theme park in Shanghai. But a Chinese billionaire says his parks will leave Disney in the dust. NPR's Anthony Kuhn reports from Beijing.

ANTHONY KUHN, BYLINE: Fourteen years ago, Wang Jianlin and his company Wanda began building huge developments, complete with apartments, shopping malls and cinemas in cities across China. But China's real estate market has been cooling, so Wang is planning to build dozens of theme parks to take on Disney nationwide.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

WANG JIANLIN: (Speaking in Chinese)

KUHN: "We will make Disney unprofitable in China within the next decade or two," Wang predicted in an interview on Chinese state television on Sunday. Wang says he's betting the Chinese cultural themes at his parks will outdraw Mickey Mouse and Snow White, that Shanghai's weather is too rainy in summer and cold in winter for Disney's outdoor attractions and that Disney's building costs will result in tickets that are too pricey for local customers.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

WANG JIANLIN: (Speaking in Chinese)

KUHN: "Disney really shouldn't have come to China," Wang said drawing applause from the studio audience. "Our strategy is based on the saying, one tiger is no match for a pack of wolves." Wang Jianlin is a 61-year-old Communist Party member with a fortune estimated at $31.5 billion. He spent some of those billions to purchase AMC's movie theater chain and Hollywood studio Legendary Entertainment.

His ambitions dovetail with China's policies to build up its media and entertainment companies in order to portray China in a favorable light. He plans to do this with blockbusters such as Great Wall, a 3D action flick starring Matt Damon and Hong Kong actor Any Lau. With a budget of $135 million, it'll be the most expensive movie ever shot entirely in China. Anthony Kuhn, NPR News, Beijing.

Thanks for sharing. Too bad Bob didn't post a hissy-fit rebuttal to Wang Jianlin's boast.

I do wonder if there will ever be a failed Disney resort in our lifetime that is closed and sold off. What a story that would make.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Being independent, it's a nice thing you can cite without concern... and of course as long as it fits the story you want to tell.. and of course you can still influence those numbers to be what you want. A nice win-win for companies huh?

Transparency would be nice, yes.

I find this time of year everyone cites something to fit their own agenda when it comes to the attendance numbers.

The one thing we can all agree on is that no one wants to be stuck in a 10,000 person crowd in Fantasyland between Pan & iasw on a 90 degree July day.

 

[flynnibus]

Transparency would be nice, yes.

I find this time of year everyone cites something to fit their own agenda when it comes to the attendance numbers.

Which is why I just scroll right past all that garbage. The companies don't want the real truth out as the numbers are far too dangerous to have known all the time... and the 'estimates' are no where near precise enough (even if you thought them accurate) to be arguing over small percentage comparisons.

I wonder just how far up the food chain you need to be in the orgs to see the real gate clicks at Disney parks.. and not just see the distributed Ops reports which would have all kinds of normalization applied to get a consistent reporting tool.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

What Disney Twenty Three Magazine should be. I'm very excited to read this soon.
https://ohmy.disney.com/insider/201...the-disney-pixar-issue-of-birth-movies-death/

Order your copy here
http://mondotees.com/collections/birth-movies-death/products/birth-movies-death-pixar-issue

 

[Rodan75]

Which is why I just scroll right past all that garbage. The companies don't want the real truth out as the numbers are far too dangerous to have known all the time... and the 'estimates' are no where near precise enough (even if you thought them accurate) to be arguing over small percentage comparisons.

I wonder just how far up the food chain you need to be in the orgs to see the real gate clicks at Disney parks.. and not just see the distributed Ops reports which would have all kinds of normalization applied to get a consistent reporting tool.

The data you are referring too, is actually probably determined pretty low in the food chain. Some reporting analyst has an agreed upon methodology and then no one up the chain probably remembers how it is done and only sees the 'normalized' numbers.

Overall...I don't have a concern with TEA numbers. As long as the parks consistently utilize the same methodology as they have used previous years then we get to see the changes to attendance. Precise gross attendance may be different, but these are the numbers that each of the Parks is utilizing to show how 'great' they are doing so in this case, directional is good and probably good enough to see what is going on. If there were material differences overall then it would be showing up in each company's financials.

All of the rest of the conspiracy talk about attendance numbers is kinda silly.

 

[ford91exploder]

I wonder what upsets him more, being called out by The Bern for the existence of Igervilles, of the fact that he didn't offer him praise about how the film division is really delivering shareholder value...

The latter as Bob does not care about the igerviles or their denizens unless they do not show up for work

 

[ford91exploder]

Thanks for sharing. Too bad Bob didn't post a hissy-fit rebuttal to Wang Jianlin's boast.

I do wonder if there will ever be a failed Disney resort in our lifetime that is closed and sold off. What a story that would make.

That will be WDW if it continues on its current trajectory. And the Avatar/TSL/SWL is all far too little far too late

It will be very interesting to see the excuses from TWDC if WDW attendance numbers continue to fall while greater Orlando tourism increases

 

[WDW1974]

This appeared in my in-box today. I am not familiar with the O-Town Lifestyler/Blogger or this site ... but it appears he visited SDL recently and went off and saw signs of Toy Story Land construction. I don't believe he didn't see this or that it is fake, but I do wonder why with all the drone footage and people taking the park apart in photos, no one noticed this or mentioned it. Odd. It also seems like the construction consists of a restroom and QSR complex and nothing else. I am wondering if Disney was so far behind on the project that they just kicked this to the side but decided they needed the basic facilities ... very odd.

http://themeparkuniversity.com/disney/toy-story-land-headed-shanghai-disneyland-photographic-proof/

 

[asianway]

This appeared in my in-box today. I am not familiar with the O-Town Lifestyler/Blogger or this site ... but it appears he visited SDL recently and went off and saw signs of Toy Story Land construction. I don't believe he didn't see this or that it is fake, but I do wonder why with all the drone footage and people taking the park apart in photos, no one noticed this or mentioned it. Odd. It also seems like the construction consists of a restroom and QSR complex and nothing else. I am wondering if Disney was so far behind on the project that they just kicked this to the side but decided they needed the basic facilities ... very odd.

http://themeparkuniversity.com/disney/toy-story-land-headed-shanghai-disneyland-photographic-proof/

Great. Another roller.

 

[flynnibus]

The data you are referring too, is actually probably determined pretty low in the food chain. Some reporting analyst has an agreed upon methodology and then no one up the chain probably remembers how it is done and only sees the 'normalized' numbers.

Yes, just like an accounts payable person can easily see the real numbers coming in in a generic business.. that doesn't mean the information isn't guarded from further distribution from people outside the role itself. I was just wondering how guarded those true raw numbers are.

Overall...I don't have a concern with TEA numbers. As long as the parks consistently utilize the same methodology as they have used previous years then we get to see the changes to attendance

These comments confuse me. What does the park's methodology have to do with your acceptances of the TEA numbers? One is not directly derived from the other.

Precise gross attendance may be different, but these are the numbers that each of the Parks is utilizing to show how 'great' they are doing so in this case, directional is good and probably good enough to see what is going on. If there were material differences overall then it would be showing up in each company's financials.

A simple example that is NOT easily seen from the company's financials are things like visiting patterns and attendance splits between parks... or things like how many people actually park hop and use that perk? These are examples we'll never see from the financials, and things people always manipulate/speculate from basing comments on TEA numbers. So there is alot more interesting numbers and trends that we really don't have transparency for... nor are the company's financials ever going to be a bell weather for because of the lack of granularity.

All of the rest of the conspiracy talk about attendance numbers is kinda silly.

It's really not much different than stupid stuff like Gartner reports. Industry uses them when its to their advantage and cites them when its putting them in a good light. Meanwhile, behind the scenes, 'how the sausage is made' is not that pretty nor really accurate.

 

[Rodan75]

Yes, just like an accounts payable person can easily see the real numbers coming in in a generic business.. that doesn't mean the information isn't guarded from further distribution from people outside the role itself. I was just wondering how guarded those true raw numbers are.

My point is I doubt they are guarded, just not known by most.

These comments confuse me. What does the park's methodology have to do with your acceptances of the TEA numbers? One is not directly derived from the other.

Aren't these TEA numbers self-reported...so as long as Disney utilizes the same methodology each year, we get to see directionally accurate numbers compared to numbers that Universal puts forth, assuming they utilize the same methodology each year. The precision is not perfect, but directionally we get to see what happens.

A simple example that is NOT easily seen from the company's financials are things like visiting patterns and attendance splits between parks... or things like how many people actually park hop and use that perk? These are examples we'll never see from the financials, and things people always manipulate/speculate from basing comments on TEA numbers. So there is alot more interesting numbers and trends that we really don't have transparency for... nor are the company's financials ever going to be a bell weather for because of the lack of granularity.

I agree, the devil is in the details, but the TEA reports aren't designed to get into those details just as the Company Financials don't. The company isn't hiding anything just because they don't show all of their operating stats to TEA or in its Financials.

It's really not much different than stupid stuff like Gartner reports. Industry uses them when its to their advantage and cites them when its putting them in a good light. Meanwhile, behind the scenes, 'how the sausage is made' is not that pretty nor really accurate.

100% agree. My overall point is that what is reported to TEA isn't a conspiracy as some on the boards make it seem. I was probably in the wrong for quoting your post to say that. I doubt too much strategy goes into it from the overall company, they have their methodology and they report the number.

I agree, I wouldn't mind seeing all of the detail, but I doubt they will show us something that we don't see though other obvious clues.

 

[flynnibus]

Aren't these TEA numbers self-reported...so as long as Disney utilizes the same methodology each year, we get to see directionally accurate numbers compared to numbers that Universal puts forth, assuming they utilize the same methodology each year

No, the reports are not aggregates of attendance reported by the operators. They are ESTIMATES calculated from available information, sources, and their own voodoo from the limited information the companies make available. They solicit from many different sources to come up with these estimates. That's the false confidence people have in these numbers.

I agree, the devil is in the details, but the TEA reports aren't designed to get into those details just as the Company Financials don't. The company isn't hiding anything just because they don't show all of their operating stats to TEA or in its Financials.

The reports are intended to be industry analyst information .. used to drive industry related activities. It's why the reports are sold.. its intended to be insight and knowledge sold back to those in the business. We just see the summary information they release as the teaser to build their brand and awareness of the product. In short.. they are intended to drive these kinds of 'how/why' knowledge in the industry. Don't short change them just based on what the fandom focuses on.

 

[doctornick]

look at those huge growth rates of Universal Studios..
Also, AK finally and officially surpassed DHS? color me surprised.

DAK has had higher attendance than DHS for a number of years now. It's not a change all of the sudden. And it will likely get worse next year with Pandora opening.

 

[flynnibus]

My point is I doubt they are guarded, just not known by most.

Yet is not widely known in the fan community.. yet is clearly a very frequent, and desirable piece of information. For instance, actual attendance trends in the park at DL were a big part of the narratives in Al Lutz's columns. It would be HUGE piece of intel for WDW and the 4 parks discussions.. yet isn't commonly leaked in a credible fashion.

All that leads to a HUGE opportunity for someone inside the company.. yet it never really happens. That infers to me that the information is pretty heavily guarded. For it not to happen with so much pent up demand, with so many possible people moving through the system, infers to me that it wouldn't be that accessible. Else, someone would have been motivated enough to leak it. Too much motivation out there for it not to happen if opportunity was that easy.

 

[Rodan75]

Yet is not widely known in the fan community.. yet is clearly a very frequent, and desirable piece of information. For instance, actual attendance trends in the park at DL were a big part of the narratives in Al Lutz's columns. It would be HUGE piece of intel for WDW and the 4 parks discussions.. yet isn't commonly leaked in a credible fashion.

All that leads to a HUGE opportunity for someone inside the company.. yet it never really happens. That infers to me that the information is pretty heavily guarded. For it not to happen with so much pent up demand, with so many possible people moving through the system, infers to me that it wouldn't be that accessible. Else, someone would have been motivated enough to leak it. Too much motivation out there for it not to happen if opportunity was that easy.

I understand your commentary better now, my whole commentary was based on the understanding that TWDC provided the information to TEA and that it wasn't derived by TEA.

 

[flynnibus]

I understand your commentary better now, my whole commentary was based on the understanding that TWDC provided the information to TEA and that it wasn't derived by TEA.

Gotcha. You can understand, that if Disney did provide that kind of information to TEA, it would be fair game for shareholders and analysts to demand the same info and report on it

 

[brb1006]

Any week when Bob "The Weatherman" Iger is getting poked from presidential candidates in the USA and being bullied by Chinese billionaires (backed by the Chinese government) is a Spirited week.

I love it when people get what's coming to them.

I'm starting to miss Michael Eisner already.

 

[brb1006]

Dropping thoughts into spoilers tab ....

Spoiler: Read only if you've watched video

I really.... REALLY like that the new castle projection show is Mickey-centric. I dig the 'getting back to roots' of the Disney, ugh, brand... and I thought it was well done.

The Star Wars transition was sloppy and a bit long in the tooth. I get it, they're promoting the SW brand which presently doesn't have a big footprint in the park (will it??) but it feels forced. The whole piece seemed kinda shoved in. I get it. I do.

The crowd LOVED the Frozen segment... and the Up balloons (I think that was them?)

The last 'dreams come true' segment and ending of the show is very cute- I'd like to re-watch a better, cleaner cut of this again!
The last time Disney did anything Mickey-centric at the Disney Parks was the Mickey Mania Parade.

Overall, not bad.

The last time any Disney park did anything Mickey-centric was the Mickey Mania Parade back in 94.