Volcano Bay

captainkidd

Well-Known Member
Are you sure? @bioreconstruct on Twitter showed slide wait times yesterday at 10:20am, ranging from a low of 50 min.to a high of 290min.!! That's a problem with letting in far too many people, huge problems with park ops and/or frequent ride malfunctions. Thoughts?

If waits are still at 5 hours, clearly, there are still major problems. I've been to both TL and BB at capacity, and never encountered waits like that.

That being said, what concerns me the most is the idea that this is what Universal wants. There are 2 possible scenarios:

1. People get frustrated, leave, then someone else can pay their $67 to get in.
2. People will stay all day determined to get on as many slides as possible, and end up dropping a fortune on food.

Either of these are no different than how every other park operates, except in any other park, there are other things to entertain you.
 

Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
There is absolutely a double standard at play here and from some of the theme park fan community in general regarding Universal vs. Disney, like a youngest child vs. oldest child. The criticisms of Universal only doing 3/4ths of the work to make something great, like they do every time other than for Potter, are always met with the insinuation that if you care about these things you must be a Disney fanboy because nobody else would care about quality or immersion when dropping top dollar to visit a top tier theme park.

I like Universal and I don't want them to fail, but a veteran theme park operator should not have cut corners on capacity at their flagship resort, in Orlando, Florida.
 
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UCF

Active Member
I am planning on visiting Volcano Bay on a Thursday in September. I know we don't have crystal balls, but do you guys think that they will have the kinks worked out by then? Will the park actually be complete? I guess if anyone can compare their experience with, say, Memorial Day weekend versus now that would be useful in figuring out if Universal is on track to have Volcano Bay a well-oiled machine by the time I visit (which, in theory, should be off-season).
The park won't be complete, they're adding another 5 acres to it, more rides, etc... that probably will take them to next spring at least to complete. I wouldn't expect any slides to be over an hour wait time by then though as it is off season.
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
Im sorry. Didn't realize you were standing next to me in the 20 minute line on Saturday. And yes, this is only the 2nd holiday weekend for Pandora and the crowds have already thinned.

Black dots represent actual posted waits (Touring Plans).

Screen Shot 2017-07-03 at 7.27.06 PM.png


Even if I question your veracity of actually being in the park beyond having found a 20 minute wait time at any point that day - your conclusion is factually incorrect based on all the data. There has not yet been further meaningful drop off in popularity beyond the initial two week rush.


What you are correct about is some posters have way too much vested in one company or the other and have this weird infatuation with one of the products from the 27th succeeding and the other being labeled a failure.

For the record, I think VB as an offering is going to be a big success once the kinks are fixed. What is failure is Universal upper management (and somewhat marketing), they are absolutely clueless.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
If waits are still at 5 hours, clearly, there are still major problems. I've been to both TL and BB at capacity, and never encountered waits like that.

Because again... these are not equivalent things.

Wait times are a self regulating system. Waits will not increase beyond what people are willing to wait... because they simply won't get in line. But that's not the case at VB. There is no consequence to getting in the coaster's line. So if it's 90mins or 200... what do you care? You just come back later than sooner. You are not being constrained to dedicate that time to that one attraction. Unlike waiting in a traditional line. This is why the resulting wait times and tolerance for that one queue and traditional examples are apples and oranges.
 

raven

Well-Known Member
Black dots represent actual posted waits (Touring Plans).

View attachment 213528

Even if I question your veracity of actually being in the park beyond having found a 20 minute wait time at any point that day - your conclusion is factually incorrect based on all the data. There has not yet been further meaningful drop off in popularity beyond the initial two week rush.


What you are correct about is some posters have way too much vested in one company or the other and have this weird infatuation with one of the products from the 27th succeeding and the other being labeled a failure.

For the record, I think VB as an offering is going to be a big success once the kinks are fixed. What is failure is Universal upper management (and somewhat marketing), they are absolutely clueless.

Seems to have won some awards too!
http://www.themeparkinsider.com/flu...n=Feed:+ThemeParkInsider+(Theme+Park+Insider)
 

captainkidd

Well-Known Member
Because again... these are not equivalent things.

Wait times are a self regulating system. Waits will not increase beyond what people are willing to wait... because they simply won't get in line. But that's not the case at VB. There is no consequence to getting in the coaster's line. So if it's 90mins or 200... what do you care? You just come back later than sooner. You are not being constrained to dedicate that time to that one attraction. Unlike waiting in a traditional line. This is why the resulting wait times and tolerance for that one queue and traditional examples are apples and oranges.

You keep saying this as if you have free reign of the park. I don't know how else to put this. What good does not having to stand in a physical line do if you can't do anything else (besides the wave pool and lazy river)? There are 2 different scenarios here due to 2 different systems:

1. You stand in a line for say 45 minutes per slide (even though that's way more than most have ever had to wait), go on the slide, get in another line, repeat. In 5 hours you have probably gone on 6 slides.

2. You don't stand in line. You reserve a spot in a 3 hour wait. You wait your turn, go on a slide, then repeat. Maybe you'll get lucky and wait will only be 60 minutes. In 5 hours you will have done 2 slides.

Now, number 2 might work for you. But if you are the typical person going to a water park to enjoy the slides, how is number 2 a better option?
 

JT3000

Well-Known Member
You keep saying this as if you have free reign of the park. I don't know how else to put this. What good does not having to stand in a physical line do if you can't do anything else (besides the wave pool and lazy river)?

What good does having to stand in a physical line do if you can't do anything else (besides stare at your phone?)

The good of Tapu Tapu is that it keeps you from having to stand in a physical line so you can do those other things (and possibly spend more money.) That's it. That's the entire point. But maybe you like standing in lines, I don't know. If that's the case, you should write them an e-mail suggesting they create a Line Ride like the one on South Park. That way you could go immediately from one ride to another, all day long!

There are 2 different scenarios here due to 2 different systems:

1. You stand in a line for say 45 minutes per slide (even though that's way more than most have ever had to wait), go on the slide, get in another line, repeat. In 5 hours you have probably gone on 6 slides.

2. You don't stand in line. You reserve a spot in a 3 hour wait. You wait your turn, go on a slide, then repeat. Maybe you'll get lucky and wait will only be 60 minutes. In 5 hours you will have done 2 slides.

Now, number 2 might work for you. But if you are the typical person going to a water park to enjoy the slides, how is number 2 a better option?

Hypotheticals are fun, but in reality, your first scenario isn't currently an option at all. Tapu Tapu, which you blame for all of this park's woes, is neither creating nor destroying capacity, it is merely distributing it. If everyone wants to go on the same ride, that's not the queue system's fault. The solution is to not "get in line" for the ride that has a 3 hour wait.
 

raven

Well-Known Member
What good does not having to stand in a physical line do if you can't do anything else (besides the wave pool and lazy river)?
Obviously you haven't been there yet and are just making crude assumptions with the little information that you've heard. But let me give you some ideas.

Wave pool, Lazy River #1, Lazy River #2, play in one of the play areas, MANY interactive elements, relax in a lounger, eat at one of the food service areas, shop at one of the many shops, explore the volcano, explore the walking trails, etc.

Volcano Bay isn't your basic water park where you visit just to go on slides then go home. It's a water theme park. It's not all about just riding slides the whole time you are there. They want their guests to relax and enjoy the scenery S well. Having down time between getting on slides, instead of standing in a long queue, makes the place more enjoyable. It's also a brilliant marketing idea since people get very hungry at water parks and also need sun protection and want to take a break from the heat, and get into the shops!
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
You keep saying this as if you have free reign of the park. I don't know how else to put this. What good does not having to stand in a physical line do if you can't do anything else (besides the wave pool and lazy river)?

Because you are not actually paying attention to the details in your crusade.

do you really think waiting 3hrs in a confined space is the same as coming back to something 3hrs later?

And in this example we are talking about the coaster since you wanted to exaggerate with the worst case waits ... which is its own tier... which is why I said their was no consequence to queuing for it.

Pay attention to the details... things might start making sense.
 

captainkidd

Well-Known Member
"Obviously you haven't been there yet and are just making crude assumptions with the little information that you've heard. But let me give you some ideas.

Wave pool, Lazy River #1, Lazy River #2, play in one of the play areas, MANY interactive elements, relax in a lounger, eat at one of the food service areas, shop at one of the many shops, explore the volcano, explore the walking trails, etc.

Volcano Bay isn't your basic water park where you visit just to go on slides then go home. It's a water theme park. It's not all about just riding slides the whole time you are there. They want their guests to relax and enjoy the scenery S well. Having down time between getting on slides, instead of standing in a long queue, makes the place more enjoyable. It's also a brilliant marketing idea since people get very hungry at water parks and also need sun protection and want to take a break from the heat, and get into the shops!"

I haven't been. I don't think they are crude assumptions. They are observations from the majority of what I have read.
I don't care about a wave pool. I live near the ocean. Lazy Rivers are good for an hour, not hours on end, several times per day. At least, not for me. And I assure you, not for the majority of guests.

Universal can want what they want. That's not going to cut it. They need to deliver what guests want. And judging by the reviews, guests don't want to spend their day shopping at a water park. As for getting out of the sun, nearly every single review has said there is very little shade. Sorry, but the PR push of it being a "water theme park" is nothing more than that.


"Because you are not actually paying attention to the details in your crusade.

do you really think waiting 3hrs in a confined space is the same as coming back to something 3hrs later?

And in this example we are talking about the coaster since you wanted to exaggerate with the worst case waits ... which is its own tier... which is why I said their was no consequence to queuing for it."


Enough with the crusade nonsense. It's a message board. It's for discussions. Not all of the opinions are going to jive with yours. I can deal with it without thinking there's a hidden agenda. Why can't you?

Of course waiting 3 hours in a confined space is different than coming back 3 hours later. I would never wait 3 hours in any queue for any ride, water or otherwise. And at any water park I've ever visited, I never have. And I'm far from exaggerating the worst case. Waits have been double at times what I was using as an example.

We can go round and round in circles on this. It's very simple. For some, that have no problem spending time shopping, drinking, eating or spending hours in a wave pool or lazy river, VB is great. For others, it's not what they are looking for in a water park. No different than when Animal Kingdom opened. Some people were fine with it being basically a zoo, despite Disney claiming otherwise. Some people were ed because they wanted rides like a traditional theme park.
 

mergatroid

Well-Known Member
Because you are not actually paying attention to the details in your crusade.

do you really think waiting 3hrs in a confined space is the same as coming back to something 3hrs later?

And in this example we are talking about the coaster since you wanted to exaggerate with the worst case waits ... which is its own tier... which is why I said their was no consequence to queuing for it.

Pay attention to the details... things might start making sense.

Have they changed it again?

A poster on here confirmed that when VB opened you could book 1 coaster reservation along with 1 slide reservation on Tapu, Tapu as they were on different tiers (1+1)

Shortly after opening when lines weren't moving well at all they changed it so you could only book 1 and this apparently improved things slightly, the poster saying this seems extremely well informed so I'm only going off what they said.

Are you now saying they've changed it back again an they're now operating on a 1+1 tier system again?
 

dreamscometrue

Well-Known Member
Because again... these are not equivalent things.

Wait times are a self regulating system. Waits will not increase beyond what people are willing to wait... because they simply won't get in line. But that's not the case at VB. There is no consequence to getting in the coaster's line. So if it's 90mins or 200... what do you care? You just come back later than sooner. You are not being constrained to dedicate that time to that one attraction. Unlike waiting in a traditional line. This is why the resulting wait times and tolerance for that one queue and traditional examples are apples and oranges.
This is very true, but makes for an interesting study in human behavior doesn't it? Since people don't have to invest much at all to tap and wait, virtual wait times get super long. Not much of an opportunity cost. But, by doing so, they have relegated themselves to a lazy river, wave pool, etc. Then, everyone has an issue with long queues for these things, or just becomes bored. If people have to stand in a physical queue, the crowds would be better dispersed, and overall, I think everyone would be happier (if park capacity is reasonable). I actually don't think this virtual queue idea can work as intended ever, because of the human condition. If people invest little to get something (a ride on a slide), everyone will wait 'virtually' for how ever long. With physical queues, each member of the crowd has a tolerance for queue time, and as a result, crowds will be much better dispersed amongst slides, wave pools, lazy rivers, concessions, beach, bar, etc.
 
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flynnibus

Premium Member
This is very true, but makes for an interesting study in human behavior doesn't it? Since people don't have to invest much at all to tap and wait, virtual wait times get super long.

Yes that is a consequence- which is one of the many reasons why the two systems are not directly comparable (yet some posters keep beating the same drums blissfully ignorant of this).

The same trade off of "lines would move faster if we eliminated virtual queuing all together" type of arguments are possible when considering alternatives, but they only represent part of the story or experience. Faster lines verse the gain of less time locked in, etc. one must consider all the pros and cons, and from different perspectives to judge the overall gain.

In the case of TT, I have mixed conclusions so far... mainly held down by the issue of complicating every transaction instead of just an optional bypass. I'm of the camp that most of the extreme waits we are seeing now will return to more acceptable levels when the capacity goes up and the "at capacity at 930am" rush dies down. What we have right now is a definition edge case... one shouldn't view this instance as representative of all cases.

I'm not necessarily a fan of it right now - but I'll criticize it legitimately, not with bad interpretations
 

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