Visitors cap per day?

[mdcpr]

Would WDW allow a visitors cap per day? Everyone complains the parks are too packed, and even when prices are going up, attendance keeps rising. Would this fix it?

 

[larryz]

WDW already has phased closings to handle mega-crowds.

There's some supposition out there that the limits that trigger the phases have been... shall we say, "stretched," lately...

 

[JIMINYCR]

Of course it could fix it buuuut the last thing Disney wants to do is to keep people out. Ever persons buying, spending, bringing in the money for covering costs and profitability. The phasing closures come at the point where theyve felt guest safety and manageability of crowds have hit its peak. They wont drop their capping point for our desire to make us have a less crowded, more pleasurable day. If youre in the park on those ultra crowded days, it means youll have to resign yourself that youll get to do less. It doesnt bother Disneys conscience at all. They dont give you a guarantee with the ticket price that youll get to do everything you want.

 

[imperius]

The only way they would lower the cap would be increasing the ticket prices to double what they are now. Disney only cares about money and not about having too many people in the parks.

 

[jloucks]

Agree with "it's not about you, it's about them" hypothesis.

 

[MisterPenguin]

The problem has the way ticketing is done, namely, one has been able to buy any-time-tickets and then you can go any time.

So what if everyone who bought tickets decided to show up on the same day?

Well, for safety reasons, they'd be turning away people once the safety limit was reached. Then you'd have millions of people who bought tickets who couldn't get it. That would be bad.

Thankfully and luckily, the crowds tend to spread themselves out so that doesn't happen. Guests would share with other guests the tips of when the parks are crowded and encourage one another to go in the off peak times.

But that only works so much as crowds keep increasing such that the normal tips to go in the off-season and all the pricing incentives that Disney has implemented spread the crowds around to the off-peak but now every day is too crowded simply because there are just more and more and more people showing up every year.

Disney could continue to increase pricing to lower attendance.

Or, there is the nuclear option to not sell any-time tickets any more, which Disney is poised to implement under the new ticketing system wherein a guest has to declare when the tickets are for, or, pay a premium for any-time tickets. That system can be used to cap sales for the day by simply stopping the sale of any-time tickets. There's still the issue of APs having any-time access, but, there could always be more and new black-out dates for them.

 

[JIMINYCR]

They are a business. They are responsible for operating as a business. The bottom line of any business is to be as profitable as they can be. They are not a charity and do not have to operate as I want them to. They care for their guests as any business cares for those who do business with them. They want you coming and coming back as return customers. They have to maintain a safe environment for their guests, and give them good entertainment for the price they pay. If we dont like the service they provide, we are free to go to a competitor.
I would be much happier if every ball game, concert, movie theatre, show, restaurant, I went to was less crowded. But as businesses they sell as many tickets/ seats as they can to serve their customers and be safe. They dont care if my view is clear or the noise levels are low enough for me to enjoy. They sell the ticket I am willing to buy. I get in, I am one of many who bought tickets, and theres no guarantee that I get to experience everything exactly as I want, or that the experience will be as it was back 30 years ago. The fact is is that WDW is popular and until they build more parks it will continue to be a popular destination with only so much space and so many attractions to ride and seats to fill at any time.

 

[jloucks]

They are a business. They are responsible for operating as a business. The bottom line of any business is to be as profitable as they can be. They are not a charity and do not have to operate as I want them to. They care for their guests as any business cares for those who do business with them. They want you coming and coming back as return customers. They have to maintain a safe environment for their guests, and give them good entertainment for the price they pay. If we dont like the service they provide, we are free to go to a competitor.
I would be much happier if every ball game, concert, movie theatre, show, restaurant, I went to was less crowded. But as businesses they sell as many tickets/ seats as they can to serve their customers and be safe. They dont care if my view is clear or the noise levels are low enough for me to enjoy. They sell the ticket I am willing to buy. I get in, I am one of many who bought tickets, and theres no guarantee that I get to experience everything exactly as I want, or that the experience will be as it was back 30 years ago. The fact is is that WDW is popular and until they build more parks it will continue to be a popular destination with only so much space and so many attractions to ride and seats to fill at any time.

I think you did a good job demonstrating that really, we the consumers are responsible to a significant degree for the prices and/or crowd levels. If it was really "too crowded" we would not go and prices would lower. But, we do go, and so nothing will change. Well, except for prices going up.

The only thing currently stopping unlimited crowding is liability.

Theoretically, an incident occurring that results in multiple injuries due to overcrowding might change things. Last time we were there we saw several incidents where crowd levels seemed flat out unsafe.

 

[Disstevefan1]

I have heard from time to time parks closed to capacity, and I have drove to a park to be told the parking lot was full and I was directed to park someplace else, but was never denied access to a park.

We drove to EPCOT on New Years Eve one year it was early afternoon and there was cars everywhere; the grass areas near the front if EPCOT were full of cars, folks just parking anywhere. I think we just parked anywhere and were let in. It was standing room only, mobs of people everywhere, all the walking areas, were full, folks were just camped out on the grass waiting for midnight. A lot of pushing and shoving! I came close to being banned for life that day! We gave up and went home after a little bit.

I would be interested to hear from folks if they have been or have seen any one holding a valid ticket being turned away at the turnstile because of capacity?

 

[thomas998]

WDW already has phased closings to handle mega-crowds.

There's some supposition out there that the limits that trigger the phases have been... shall we say, "stretched," lately...

I doubt they stretched the number that are allowed in the park, pretty sure there would be some formula used by the fire marshal that set the maximum capacity of the park long ago. Of course I suspect that part of the problem is they probably haven't ever revised that figure in decades and when you factor in all the strollers you have today vs how many you would have had in the 1970's you going to be losing a lot of open space from that alone. Then of course the question is whether they made any adjustments for changes in the landscaping that have effectively removed open areas and turned them into non-accessible areas. Either one of those mentioned things would make a visitor feel like the place was more crowded even if it was the same number of people that were in the park 30 years ago.

 

[eliza61nyc]

Of course it could fix it buuuut the last thing Disney wants to do is to keep people out. Ever persons buying, spending, bringing in the money for covering costs and profitability. The phasing closures come at the point where theyve felt guest safety and manageability of crowds have hit its peak. They wont drop their capping point for our desire to make us have a less crowded, more pleasurable day. If youre in the park on those ultra crowded days, it means youll have to resign yourself that youll get to do less. It doesnt bother Disneys conscience at all. They dont give you a guarantee with the ticket price that you'll get to do everything you want.

LoL I kinda thought the goal of any business is to make money? LOL Jiminy cricket is not real. It is not Disney's obligation to make sure you do every thing you want. I think the disconnect is people want to believe that Walt Disney was there favorite uncle.

Personally I think for the next 5 years there is nothing Disney can do to make the parks less crowded.

1. the mouseworld has done an outstanding job of convincing the world that a wdw vacation is a necessity right up there with college. for some reasons parents now view not going to wdw as child neglect. so if only once they are going to get the kiddies to the world.
2. The economy has been great for the last say 5 years. low unemployment, people are feeling secure in their jobs, stock market has been going full steam, so folks are watching their savings get padded. Overall consumer spending has been chugging along. So now folks are feeling good about spending a few extra bucks. those "bucket list" items are being checked off.

I really think Disney could literally double the ticket price and the parks would still be packed. Now with SW opening up and GotG coming on line soon, it's going to stay packed.

 

[Trackmaster]

Of course it could fix it buuuut the last thing Disney wants to do is to keep people out. Ever persons buying, spending, bringing in the money for covering costs and profitability. The phasing closures come at the point where theyve felt guest safety and manageability of crowds have hit its peak. They wont drop their capping point for our desire to make us have a less crowded, more pleasurable day. If youre in the park on those ultra crowded days, it means youll have to resign yourself that youll get to do less. It doesnt bother Disneys conscience at all. They dont give you a guarantee with the ticket price that youll get to do everything you want.

I agree with you but I disagree with you.

• I agree that Disney has no incentive to turn away paying customers. Extra crowds and congestion falls on us to deal with, not them. If people are still coming despite all of the crowds, Disney is doing something right, and they have no reason to change their model. Plus, you can argue that FP+ informs people beforehand about what they can expect, and guarantees each guest three short wait rides on pre-selected rides of their choice -- if they were blocked out, they know that they should have expected no production.
• But I disagree about in-park revenue. In my opinion, that doesn't necessarily go up on a linear scale based on how many park are at the park. There is only a finite supply of goods to sell, and more importantly, if the registers all have lines that go outside of the gift shops and food stands, there's no extra money for each additional person that walks in the gate. Parks can make nearly as much money with moderate crowds from concessions and retail than what its jammed. Its just about the bottleneck being available supply and registers.

Disney in my opinion will never bring their capacity down to a point where it actually does much, but I would like to see them put up IKEA style posters where they openly talk about crowd levels for each day to guests. There are services that you can pay for to see the crowd levels, but Disney should share their data for free to guests in the park, to encourage them to use all 365 days to spread the hit out more.

 

[eliza61nyc]

Disney in my opinion will never bring their capacity down to a point where it actually does much, but I would like to see them put up IKEA style posters where they openly talk about crowd levels for each day to guests. There are services that you can pay for to see the crowd levels, but Disney should share their data for free to guests in the park, to encourage them to use all 365 days to spread the hit out more.

That's a pretty great idea.

 

[MisterPenguin]

That's a pretty great idea.

Advertising peak and off-peak days is now pretty much what Disney does with their surge pricing for day-tickets.

 

[JIMINYCR]

I agree with you but I disagree with you.

• But I disagree about in-park revenue. In my opinion, that doesn't necessarily go up on a linear scale based on how many park are at the park. There is only a finite supply of goods to sell, and more importantly, if the registers all have lines that go outside of the gift shops and food stands, there's no extra money for each additional person that walks in the gate. Parks can make nearly as much money with moderate crowds from concessions and retail than what its jammed. Its just about the bottleneck being available supply and registers.

Disney in my opinion will never bring their capacity down to a point where it actually does much, but I would like to see them put up IKEA style posters where they openly talk about crowd levels for each day to guests. There are services that you can pay for to see the crowd levels, but Disney should share their data for free to guests in the park, to encourage them to use all 365 days to spread the hit out more.

Well if you have MORE paying customers, they bring in more money. Increased lines at the register grow, but eventually the waiting customer does hand over their money. Disney doesnt have really a finite supply of merchandise, they continue to restock, yes, until a peice is sold out. Its different at the restaurants because you can only seat a number of guests in any dining period.

 

[JIMINYCR]

LoL I kinda thought the goal of any business is to make money? LOL Jiminy cricket is not real. It is not Disney's obligation to make sure you do every thing you want. I think the disconnect is people want to believe that Walt Disney was there favorite uncle.

Personally I think for the next 5 years there is nothing Disney can do to make the parks less crowded.

1. the mouseworld has done an outstanding job of convincing the world that a wdw vacation is a necessity right up there with college. for some reasons parents now view not going to wdw as child neglect. so if only once they are going to get the kiddies to the world.
2. The economy has been great for the last say 5 years. low unemployment, people are feeling secure in their jobs, stock market has been going full steam, so folks are watching their savings get padded. Overall consumer spending has been chugging along. So now folks are feeling good about spending a few extra bucks. those "bucket list" items are being checked off.

I really think Disney could literally double the ticket price and the parks would still be packed. Now with SW opening up and GotG coming on line soon, it's going to stay packed.

Sorry I missed your point. I agree with you. Where do you think we disagree? And what do you mean by "Jiminy cricket is not real."

 

[JIMINYCR]

I think you did a good job demonstrating that really, we the consumers are responsible to a significant degree for the prices and/or crowd levels. If it was really "too crowded" we would not go and prices would lower. But, we do go, and so nothing will change. Well, except for prices going up.

The only thing currently stopping unlimited crowding is liability.

Theoretically, an incident occurring that results in multiple injuries due to overcrowding might change things. Last time we were there we saw several incidents where crowd levels seemed flat out unsafe.

Agree. Watching the massive crowds jam packed into the park at New Years Eve. I cringe thinking about the negative possibilities if an incident occurred and there was a panicked mass stampede.

 

[Trackmaster]

Well if you have MORE paying customers, they bring in more money. Increased lines at the register grow, but eventually the waiting customer does hand over their money. Disney doesnt have really a finite supply of merchandise, they continue to restock, yes, until a peice is sold out. Its different at the restaurants because you can only seat a number of guests in any dining period.

Nah, especially with merchandise, you can only turn over so many people at the register. This is especially true at the over the counter food places. I can't count how many times I've been more than willing to trade my hard earned cash for food but opted to wait until after the park due to the long lines. So clearly, there's not a linear relationship with guests in the park, and revenue earned from concessions. And as far as retail goes, who's to say that people wouldn't just order the same stuff online if it wasn't available in the park? Other than incidentals that you need that day, what kind of a fool uses a park like a shopping mall, and carries bags around all day?

 

[Trackmaster]

Agree. Watching the massive crowds jam packed into the park at New Years Eve. I cringe thinking about the negative possibilities if an incident occurred and there was a panicked mass stampede.

You see that at special events and concerts all the time. And those people are drunk as skunks too. You just have security protocols and invest in security. There's risk involved, but its life.

 

[rreading]

The obvious answer to this is in the other thread: that they should go up on ticket prices to temper the demand. It's a balance: you have to pay more to be there but it's more pleasant once you're there. Otherwise they just have to try and keep the guests spread out, which means longer lines for Small World. Before FP+ when my children were young (a decade ago) Small World was almost always a walk-on (as was HM in the evenings); now there's most often a line.