Universal Epic Universe (South Expansion Complex) - Opens 2025

Tom Morrow

Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
Thank you, that was a good explanation in regards to the design approach to the lands.

I suppose I am much more of a fan of the hyper-realistic approach to theming, because its something only the big guys, Disney and Universal, can really do, while the abstract approach is typically the direction you see taken at Six Flags-tier parks. I'm not saying the three IOA lands in question are Six Flags level (though do seriously need a refurb and refresh). I don't really have a very strong opinion on TSL, but I think the only reason I prefer it is because, in the end, despite being somewhat barebones and cheap, it still looks pretty - and I think this is due in large to the ample vegetation/landscaping throughout the land. The three IOA lands in question have very scarce vegetation/landscaping and have a very concrete/plastic/fiberglass look to them. So that, in addition to their rundown state, makes them visually unappealing to me.
 
Jon81uk

Jon81uk

Well-Known Member
Casper Gutman said:
Everything that follows is subjective. This should go without saying, but the stated opinions are strong, so I felt it best to reiterate the point.

I honestly find it very, very hard to believe that TSL could be considered better than Toon, Seuss, or Marvel without a heavy, HEAVY dose of Disney brand loyalty. All three sections are brightly painted and, as such, tend to dull in the Florida sun - that’s true. But I’ve been to IOA very recently and none of these lands look bad at all - particularly not in comparison to areas of WDW.

Let’s dig into Marvel a bit, since I think it’s one of the best lands in Orlando and we have a direct comparison available with the Avengers Campus Disney is building. Marvel is actually a tough subject for a land, because Marvel’s whole point is it’s proximity to reality - most stories take place in NY, not DCs Gotham or Metropolis or Oa or etc... The upshot is that designers need to come up with a unique approach rather then just reproducing an IP location like Radiator Springs or Hogsmeade. Uni choose to create an impressionistic space full of gripping color and larger-than-life characters that exists somewhere between the comic page and the cheap TV cartoons based on those comics (The Spidey ride, for instance, is all the TV cartoon - an approach that makes more sense when you consider that when Uni was designing, Marvel’s comics were teetering on the edge of bankruptcy and oblivion.)

Disney, meanwhile, is taking a hyper-realistic approach, creating an exact reproduction of a location we’ve never seen on film. Personally, I find that Uni’s colorful, effusive approach captures the chaotic spirit of superhero comics much more then Disney’s industrial, controlled, quasi-educational approach, which seems likely to drain a lot of life from the properties.

Some folks here seem predisosed to dismiss anything other then the hyper real approach (outside of Future World or Tomorrowland or any of the other locations Disney has used it to great effect.). But TSL is a great example of how the hyper-real approach breaks down. The entire “you are toys” theme, of course, is a way to slap a veneer of theming onto unthemed rides, but it quickly breaks down. The scale varies wildly, some objects are clearly toys while others aren’t, Saucers pretty much breaks the theme completely, giant unthemed warehouses are everywhere... Like Marvel land giant stationary statues of key characters are scattered about, but the hyper-real approach doesn’t justify their existence while Marvel’s impressionistic approach does.

As for the above attempted dissection of Hagrid, the same can be done to any great ride. Let’s take DLs Indy, one of the 5 best rides in the US; you have an Indy who sounds nothing like Ford, a rotating gate that doesn’t rotate, visible tracks, a hallway of flat painted skeletons meant to be 3-D, etc. Even ToT, the best ride in the US, has a hallway full of video monitors and mannequins coated in glo-paint.

Long story short: I’ll take IOA over any Orlando Disney park except AK.

PS: Dino-Rama is much better then TSL: it looks like what it’s meant to be, is consistent in scale and concept, and serves as a sharp, witty punchline to all of Dinoland.
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This is a good way of looking at it.

For me Marvel, Suess and Toon at IoA all work with some 2D stuff as they are based on books, which are 2D materials. But as Tom Morrow stated they seem to look run down quickly. If they applied Disney's level of upkeep to the lands then they would probably work a lot better. Also Marvel Island really needs an extra attraction, large parts of IoA do feel a bit neglected as they haven't seen major additions in their 20 years.

As you say, one of the issues with Toy Story Land is that it doesn't quite do its job of making you feel like you are the size of a toy. But at Universal they aren't trying to pretend you are in a real location in Super Hero Island so there is no pressure to make it feel realistic like Hogsmeade and Jurassic Park need to.
 
lebeau

lebeau

Well-Known Member
Tom Morrow said:
Just spent the evening at DAK and rode every ride with ease and used no Fastpasses. Disney is not always stressful, and Universal is not always stress free.
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A lot of it is how you do it. At Universal, we can stay at a Deluxe with EP included. It's a heck of a deal for a family of four and always stress-free. Disney doesn't offer anything comparable.
 
lebeau

lebeau

Well-Known Member
cheezbat said:
One thing to consider when comparing Marvel, Tooon Lagoon, and Seuss to Toy Story Land: IOA opened 20 years ago. TSL opened last year. Big difference in approaches to land-building from decades ago.
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I think it goes without saying that if Universal were building a Marvel-themed land today, it would be vastly different from Marvel Superhero Island. And I'm willing to bet it would blow away what Disney has planned for Avengers Campus. (Even the name is boring.)
 
Casper Gutman

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
lebeau said:
I think it goes without saying that if Universal were building a Marvel-themed land today, it would be vastly different from Marvel Superhero Island. And I'm willing to bet it would blow away what Disney has planned for Avengers Campus. (Even the name is boring.)
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I’m not sure. I think Marvel Island may be the best approach possible to that particular property. If they wanted to go hyper-real, I suppose Asgard or Knowhere would be the way to go, but neither is central enough to the entirety of the sprawling Marvel IP to be fully satisfactory.
 
trr1

trr1

Well-Known Member
[B]bioreconstruct[/B]‏ @[B]bioreconstruct[/B] Sep 21
Deep retention pond at Universal's Epic Universe.
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[B]bioreconstruct[/B]‏ @[B]bioreconstruct[/B] Sep 21
Steady flow of trucks delivering dirt to site of Universal's Epic Universe.
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J

JT3000

Well-Known Member
Casper Gutman said:
I’m not sure. I think Marvel Island may be the best approach possible to that particular property. If they wanted to go hyper-real, I suppose Asgard or Knowhere would be the way to go, but neither is central enough to the entirety of the sprawling Marvel IP to be fully satisfactory.
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There are other options for basing a Marvel land off a realistic setting, but I think you also have to take the centrality of New York within the Marvel Universe into consideration for why the island looks the way it does. NYC is the main setting for various series & characters, including what was, at the time, Marvel's only super popular character, Spider-Man.

Despite Marvel Superhero Island being a highly-stylized cityscape that doesn't resemble anything in particular, the Spider-Man ride contained within still takes place in NYC, because it practically has to, and the Japanese version is actually located in that park's NY area. But a New York theme was immediately off the table for IOA, because this theme was already in use at USF. So I think there's a good chance the island would look very different if this limitation hadn't been in place in Orlando.
 
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lebeau

lebeau

Well-Known Member
Casper Gutman said:
I’m not sure. I think Marvel Island may be the best approach possible to that particular property. If they wanted to go hyper-real, I suppose Asgard or Knowhere would be the way to go, but neither is central enough to the entirety of the sprawling Marvel IP to be fully satisfactory.
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I would imagine the approach would be similar (comic book based and set in a cartoonish New York), but the art would be more contemporary. Adam Kubert was one of the best Marvel artists of the 90's, but the aesthetic is still very much of that era. The make-up of the land would be very different. It would have to be influenced by the movies. The Avengers would have much more of a presence. The Fantastic Four and X-Men would probably be less represented than they are. I could see Universal using Deadpool or the Guardians if they were building the land from scratch today.
 
WowFactor

WowFactor

Well-Known Member
Casper Gutman said:
But TSL is a great example of how the hyper-real approach breaks down.
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Exactly!

IMO, Chester and Hester’s Dino-Rama at Dinoland USA is another example of the same situation. It's so well done that you forget you're in a amazing theme park. Unfortunately when I'm there I feel like I'm at an old parking lot and all the magic fades...
 
Voxel

Voxel

President of Progress City
The Real Buzz Lightyear said:
How would everyone rank the epic universe lands from most anticipated to least anticipated? For me it would be
1. Super Nintendo World
2. How to Train your Dragon
3. Universal Monsters
4. Fantastic Beasts
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I want Legend of Zelda. I know they made early draft work for a Zelda zone but I don't know the current state or if it made it past the draw ideas for it phase.
 
Voxel

Voxel

President of Progress City
The Real Buzz Lightyear said:
Universal has the same idea to spread Nintendo to all three of the parks like what they are doing with Harry Potter.
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It's a smart idea. I'm glad the rumors show they are sticking with Zelda and Pokemon still. Sadly my friend left her job at Universal Creative shortly after construction started in Japan so I blind to what's going on now. :( I feel like I remember her telling me about a concept that was basically Pokemon Snap the Ride.
 
The Grand Inquisitor

The Grand Inquisitor

Well-Known Member
Voxel said:
It's a smart idea. I'm glad the rumors show they are sticking with Zelda and Pokemon still. Sadly my friend left her job at Universal Creative shortly after construction started in Japan so I blind to what's going on now. :( I feel like I remember her telling me about a concept that was basically Pokemon Snap the Ride.
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Yeah that's the rumor for Pokemon. The rumors I heard was that kidzone would might divided in two sections. One section would be Dreamworks Trolls and the other half could be Pokemon. There is also a rumor Pokemon might be a phase 2 expansion to epic universe in the future.
 
Voxel

Voxel

President of Progress City
The Real Buzz Lightyear said:
Yeah that's the rumor for Pokemon. The rumors I heard was that kidzone would might divided in two sections. One section would be Dreamworks Trolls and the other half could be Pokemon. There is also a rumor Pokemon might be a phase 2 expansion to epic universe in the future.
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Perfect! I can't wait, luckily I'll be going to Osaka's Nintendo Land in 21 so I will be able to get a fix before it opens here.
 

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