Underage Drinking at EPCOT's Food & Wine Festival

[Timekeeper]

'Tis the season for two large events at local theme parks where alcohol sales and consumption are at their peak: Universal Orlando's Halloween Horror Nights (HHN) and EPCOT's Food & Wine Festival (F&W). We all know the law with respect to drinking, but there seems to be a huge discrepancy in surveillance and enforcement between HHN and F&W. Specifically, the presence of security/law enforcement officers and the assembly-line-like processing of minors in possession, etc.

That got me thinking: why is EPCOT significantly more "relaxed" in this subject matter? :shrug:

Yes, there are a number of variables that lead to HHN needing greater overall security. The nature of the event lends itself to rowdier crowds. But as far as alcohol in concerned, EPCOT has more drink options (both F&W and permanent bars in World Showcase), with higher alcohol by volume content, etc.

Also, although I don't have the actual guest statistics, experience suggests that HHN attracts a more local crowd, whereas WDW generally attracts more international guests than HHN. HHN is a separately ticketed event, whereas F&W is included with a day's admission to EPCOT. Why point this out? Because many WDW guests come from locations where the legal drinking age is lower than 21, and also socially acceptable at younger ages. Thus, parents/guardians/friends at F&W who are over the age of 21 may see no harm (legal or moral) in purchasing alcohol for others in their party.

Another difference is that HHN issues "21 and up" wristbands, and F&W does not (unless they do and I simply didn't notice it). Employees at both events will still "card" guests that appear young at each point of sale, but this obviously does nothing to discourage guests from purchasing alcohol for others.

Although the events are nothing alike, it seems like the opportunity for underage drinking exists at both HHN and F&W, for both similar and different reasons, when "bars" are located every 50 feet. So, returning to my initial inquiry, why is EPCOT significantly more "relaxed" in this subject matter? :shrug:

 

[wm49rs]

I was at the F&W last weekend, and saw many individuals in line ahead of me being carded. Particularly those in college attire or who simply looked to be underage. I'm not saying that there weren't those who slipped the scrutiny, but it also didn't appear to be an issue of negligence or laxity on the part of those CMs at the pavilions (or in the seminars or Party for the Senses). Indeed, those with tickets for the seminars that I attended who looked underage were asked for IDs.....

 

[Hakunamatata]

I was at the F&W last weekend, and saw many individuals in line ahead of me being carded. Particularly those in college attire or who simply looked to be underage. I'm not saying that there weren't those who slipped the scrutiny, but it also didn't appear to be an issue of negligence or laxity on the part of those CMs at the pavilions (or in the seminars or Party for the Senses). Indeed, those with tickets for the seminars that I attended who looked underage were asked for IDs.....

In the times I have been in the WS during F&W or any other time for that matter, I don't recall seeing anyone that I wondered how they were served an adult beverage. I have seen plenty adults that Ive wondered why they were served another adult beverage.....

 

[wm49rs]

In the times I have been in the WS during F&W or any other time for that matter, I don't recall seeing anyone that I wondered how they were served an adult beverage. I have seen plenty adults that Ive wondered why they were served another adult beverage.....

Actually, the only person I saw that truly fit this description was a woman at Le Cellier for dinner on Sunday night. It was apparent that after a looong day of the F&W finest, she was having a hard time staying awake (conscious) through her three-course dinner. I swear I thought she was going to pass out in her cheddar cheese soup. :snore:

 

[Timekeeper]

I was at the F&W last weekend, and saw many individuals in line ahead of me being carded.

My question is directed more toward post-sale surveillance, not point-of-sale carding. Both HHN and F&W do their job carding at the point of sale. But HHN security (which is doubled by the Orlando Police Department) are notorious for their observations of whose hands the drinks actually end up in.

 

[Hakunamatata]

Actually, the only person I saw that truly fit this description was a woman at Le Cellier for dinner on Sunday night. It was apparent that after a looong day of the F&W finest, she was having a hard time staying awake (conscious) through her three-course dinner. I swear I thought she was going to pass out in her cheddar cheese soup. :snore:

What a way to go. Drown in cheddar cheese soup.....:slurp:

 

[Tigger1988]

I was surprised that I wasn't carded at F&W last week. I get carded EVERYWHERE.

 

[wm49rs]

My question is directed more toward post-sale surveillance, not point-of-sale carding. Both HHN and F&W do their job carding at the point of sale. But HHN security (which is doubled by the Orlando Police Department) are notorious for their observations of whose hands the drinks actually end up in.

It's easy to declare that drinks end up in the wrong hands without any real empirical data to back that up. All I can offer is my observations on one of the events, and the impact it had on the crowds there. As I've stated before, I saw many people at the F&W on Saturday in collegiate attire, and spoke with and sat next to many other people from the local areas. But nowhere did I see some mass contagion of underage drinking, rowdiness, or gross public intoxication (save for the one woman, who was in her early 50's).

And the fact that the pavilions are so close to each other can also act as a deterrent, considering the number of CMs around each and their ability to card and observe who was drinking what. Because let's face it, those stupid enough to pass on drinks to underage accomplices are also stupid enough to not keep things quiet....

EPCOT was packed last weekend, moreso on Saturday than Sunday (although that day did get busy as well). But there was no signs of what you're trying to ascribe to Disney or it's carding policies.

 

[wm49rs]

What a way to go. Drown in cheddar cheese soup.....:slurp:

She was swaying back and forth the entire meal. Like she has just gotten off a rough transAtlantic voyage.....:dazzle:

 

[PyroKinesis]

So are you complaining because EPCOT is serving alcohol to "underage" people when in THEIR country it's perfectly fine?

 

[Timekeeper]

It's easy to declare that drinks end up in the wrong hands without any real empirical data to back that up. ... EPCOT was packed last weekend, moreso on Saturday than Sunday (although that day did get busy as well). But there was no signs of what you're trying to ascribe to Disney or it's carding policies.

I don't need "empirical data" for purposes of this discussion. Suffice it to say that police officers are HHN are notorious for citing underage minors in possession of alcohol with violations, arresting guests, etc. It is simply foolish to suggest that the motivation for a minor to consume alcohol exists at one theme park and not the other.

The employees at F&W who card guests at the point of sale are very busy multi-tasking and attending to an assembly line of guests. So they are not a deterrent beyond the point of sale, no matter how many of them there are. Universal, on the other hand, employees a large number of security officers and police officers whose sole job is observation (and serving as a visual presence/deterrent). I'm just wondering why EPCOT doesn't even come close to this level with respect to acknowledging the issue underage drinking.

 

[Timekeeper]

So are you complaining because EPCOT is serving alcohol to "underage" people when in THEIR country it's perfectly fine?

No complaints, just discussion.

As I pointed out above, the issue for discussion has nothing to do with the point of sale/serving of alcohol. Let's assume that employees of both HHN and F&W generally do everything by the book when selling drinks. It is the obvious discrepancy in security and law enforcement after the initial sale that stands out.

 

[wm49rs]

I don't need "empirical data" for purposes of this discussion. Suffice it to say that police officers are HHN are notorious for citing underage minors in possession of alcohol with violations, arresting guests, etc. It is simply foolish to suggest that the motivation for a minor to consume alcohol exists at one theme park and not the other.

The employees at F&W who card guests at the point of sale are very busy multi-tasking and attending to an assembly line of guests. So they are not a deterrent beyond the point of sale, no matter how many of them there are. Universal, on the other hand, employees a large number of security officers and police officers whose sole job is observation (and serving as a visual presence/deterrent). I'm just wondering my EPCOT doesn't even come close to this level with respect to acknowledging the issue underage drinking.

Well, since you don't require empirical data, who's to say that Disney doesn't employ "plainclothes" security officer to monitor the crowds as well? Since you don't require empirical data....

Just because cops at the HHN give out citations doesn't mean Disney is somehow more lax, or they have a higher occasion of underage drinking.

 

[Timekeeper]

Well, since you don't require empirical data, who's to say that Disney doesn't employ "plainclothes" security officer to monitor the crowds as well? Since you don't require empirical data....

Just because cops at the HHN give out citations doesn't mean Disney is somehow more lax, or they have a higher occasion of underage drinking.

Well, we could dig into public records for your "data," but since this is a discussion board and observational data seems to be sufficient for most, has anyone actually seen a uniformed officer in EPCOT? After literally countless visits, I sure haven't. I'm willing to bet that others have had similar experiences, or the lack thereof. So, at least with respect to a visual deterrence, yes, Disney is objectively on the other end of the spectrum.

Your "plaincothes" security officers do exist, yes, but it takes an official law enforcement officer to issue a notice to appear, or perform and arrest and booking, etc. You won't find too many (if any) police cars backstage at EPCOT. No guest or CM on these boards or elsewhere has ever indicated that EPCOT has locations that serve as basically an assembly line of processing guests who break the law, which Universal is known for doing. Thus, on a strictly observational level, yes, Disney is much more lax.

Edit: Even if we compare - solely - the security measures that guests undergo when entering EPCOT vs Universal, they are dramatic. Guests entering HHN have to walk through a literal sea of Orlando Police Department officers before hitting the turnstiles. Not to mention metal detectors and much more scrutiny in bag checks.

 

[wm49rs]

Well, we could dig into public records for your "data," but since this is a discussion board and observational data seems to be sufficient for most, has anyone actually seen a uniformed officer in EPCOT? After literally countless visits, I sure haven't. I'm willing to bet that others have had similar experiences, or the lack thereof. So, at least with respect to a visual deterrence, yes, Disney is objectively on the other end of the spectrum.

Your "plaincothes" security officers do exist, yes, but it takes an official law enforcement officer to issue a notice to appear, or perform and arrest and booking, etc. You won't find too many (if any) police cars backstage at EPCOT. No guest or CM on these boards or elsewhere has ever indicated that EPCOT has locations that serve as basically an assembly line of processing guests who break the law, which Universal is known for doing. Thus, on a strictly observational level, yes, Disney is much more lax.

Or perhaps there hasn't been a need for "visual deterrence" at the F&W as there has been at the HHN....

And because Option B doesn't have the same procedures as Option A, it doesn't mean Option B is somehow lax in their methods any more than it means that underaged drinking is somehow more prevalent.

You can try and dress this up as a "discussion" all you want, but frankly unless you have some sort of proof (outside of the absence of uniformed police officers at EPCOT), there's not much validity to your premise.....

(And just what does metal detectors have to do with underage drinking?)

 

[Alektronic]

Your "plaincothes" security officers do exist, yes, but it takes an official law enforcement officer to issue a notice to appear, or perform and arrest and booking, etc. You won't find too many (if any) police cars backstage at EPCOT. No guest or CM on these boards or elsewhere has ever indicated that EPCOT has locations that serve as basically an assembly line of processing guests who break the law, which Universal is known for doing. Thus, on a strictly observational level, yes, Disney is much more lax.

Obviously, you haven't spent much time backstage, there is Orange County Sheriff's back there all the time especially on nights and weekends.

 

[maxairmike]

I can tell you that there is a lot more security and eyes on people than you realize during F&W. Every CM in the park knows what's going on, and I do mean literally every single CM, even in Future World. Part of it is the crowd and what goes on at the event, even with a large contingent of locals showing up. Sure, I've seen people so drunk they fall out of their wheelchairs (dead serious), or drunk-dial their mom to brag, but most people manage to be respectable even while drunk. The nature of the event is what contributes to the calmer atmosphere, people aren't on edge. But, like I said, there are a lot more eyes watching what goes on than you realize.

 

[Hakunamatata]

Well, since you don't require empirical data, who's to say that Disney doesn't employ "plainclothes" security officer to monitor the crowds as well? Since you don't require empirical data....

Just because cops at the HHN give out citations doesn't mean Disney is somehow more lax, or they have a higher occasion of underage drinking.

I bet Uni gets a % of all the fines.....

 

[Master Yoda]

Based on what I have seen I would say that US needs the presence of Uniformed officers to curb underage drinking more than Disney does.

I have been to F&W more times than I can count, and while I have run into the occasional guest that has had a bit too much, I do not recall ever seeing someone obviously underage that was drinking. I am sure it happens but I have never seen in.

One my one trip to HHN about 6-7 years ago the underage drinking was so bad and US response to it so apathetic that I have never returned. When we entered the park or first stop was to the wrist band station which there was surprisingly no line. We were told "Don't worry about it". We did not think much of it at the time assuming that 2 people in their early 30's looked old enough. About 15 minutes later we were outside of ET listening to 3 teenage couples talking about the High School football game the just played in and cheered at everyone of which had a Coors Light in their hands. This was just one of several instances where we ran into obvious underage drinking that night. As the evening went on the encounters grew more and more disturbing ending with me nearly punching a 16 year old drunk girl that was attempting to yank the beads out of my hand while my wife and I were watching the parade. The last straw for me was when I emailed US about my concerns when we arrived home a couple of days later. They basically told me that it did not and could not have happened and that I was mistaken. We have not been back to HHN since.

Based on the OP's description it looks likes US has drastically stepped up security in this matter and based on my experiences I can see why they would need to.

 

[Timekeeper]

You can try and dress this up as a "discussion" all you want, but frankly unless you have some sort of proof (outside of the absence of uniformed police officers at EPCOT), there's not much validity to your premise.....

Premise: Universal does more to actively discourage breaking the law than Disney. Whether there is more or less "need" to do so was never part of the initial inquiry. Proof: Visit both events and look around. It doesn't get much more objective than that.

No one disputes that underage drinking occurs at both locations. Does someone really need "empirical data" to back that up? Who here thinks that there is a zero occurrence of underage drinking at EPCOT? :brick:

(And just what does metal detectors have to do with underage drinking?)

Guests (particularly upper high school-college age) are known for bringing alcohol into theme parks - not to mention drugs as well. Metal detectors and an "empty your pockets" policy make it more difficult for guests to "sneak" alcohol into parks. Also, Universal does not allow ANY food or drinks into HHN. EPCOT allows you to bring in both food and drinks. Alcohol is easily disguised in any soda or water bottle. Again, Disney is objectively more lax in this area.

But again with the need for "data"... Well, here's another premise: smokers do not always stay within the designated smoking sections at both Universal and Disney parks. Oops, I don't have any "empirical data" to back up that premise. But who here disagrees with the premise that smokers do not always stay within the designated smoking sections of a theme park? :brick: