Train Trouble

FutureCEO

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Disney wants driver's seat on rail route

By Jim Stratton | Sentinel Staff Writer
Posted December 12, 2002


Walt Disney World officials on Wednesday restated their opposition to any high-speed rail line that serves the Orange County Convention Center and International Drive.

Disney World Vice President Tom Lewis said if the state builds along the Bee Line Expressway, the company will not steer its visitors toward the billion-dollar train. Those visitors, when they arrive in Central Florida, now take a bus from Orlando International Airport to Disney resorts.

On Wednesday, consultants told the state's High-Speed Rail Authority that Disney could add 2 million people -- and more than $26 million in fares -- to the bullet train. But not if state officials ignore Disney's request to build the line along the Central Florida GreeneWay.

If they choose the Bee Line, Lewis said, "We'll continue running our bus system."

Two years ago, voters approved a constitutional amendment requiring the state to build a high-speed rail line linking Florida's five biggest urban areas. The first leg would run from Orlando International Airport to Tampa and is expected to cost about $1 billion.

The line's route has become an explosive political issue. Disney wants the GreeneWay -- a route that bypasses International Drive -- while Orange County Chairman Rich Crotty and other tourism leaders support a route that follows the Bee Line and Interstate 4.

That route, they point out, could serve both International Drive and Disney by shooting west from the airport then turning south along I-4.

Ridership projections say each route would provide about 2 million trips a year -- until consultants tally Disney guests who now ride charter buses.

When those tourists are added -- which Disney says will happen only if the rail line follows the GreeneWay -- ridership jumps to 4 million a year.

Critics say Disney opposes the Bee Line route because it would bring business to International Drive hotels and attractions. But Lewis said Disney supports the GreeneWay because "it's the best route for the community."

Lewis said if high-speed rail is built along the Bee Line, it will prevent light rail from ever being built there. They say a light-rail line, with cheap fares and several stops, would better serve locals.

State officials will approve the system's route next year, but they are expected to rely heavily on the private group chosen to run the system.

And those groups may insist on a route catering to Disney's 2 million riders and the $26 million they represent.

The operator, said rail-authority member Skip Fowler, "is going to be the one taking the risks. So he should get the reward."
 

niteobsrvr

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Rider
Disney wants a monoply on the train system.

They shouldn't get it.

Actually, Disney's demands make the most sense and as someone who has spent most of his adult life dealing with transportation of either freight or people I can say this with a bit of authority on the subject.

If you follow the politics of Orange County you will notice that Commissioner Crotty has made it his mission from the heavens to be the evangelist that fixes all of Orange County's Transportation Problems. This is quite a political issue for him and the County Convention Center which was funded with a lot of tax payer money even though there were questions about the overall financial viability of essentially doubling the current center.

Disney happens to be right on this one. High speed rail is not a commuter service. The distance between the Airport and the Convention Center is 8 miles. The Distance between Disney and the Airport is about 18 miles.

8 miles is more suited for a commuter service that could not only serve the visitor market but also local residents going from their homes in and around the lines to the attractions where they are employed. The commuter service would also continue on to Disney where it would most likely meet in one large terminal on property that served high speed rail, light/commuter rail and vehicular traffic like busses.

High Speed rail is more suited to longer distances. In my opinion 18 miles is still too short for a first stop. Of course, if it were my decision I would also not terminate the line at the airport either when there are locations more central to the residents of Orange County and Orlando which would serve taxpayers better. But since every one is bent on using an inefficient routing an initial leg of 18 miles makes more sense that 8. You would barely get the train started before you would have to start stopping it with an 8 mile leg.

The bigger problem I see with this system is Florida Taxpayers voted to build it and we will be paying for it one way or the other but from the looks of the posturing in Orange County it will probably be built to serve the Tourism market. Now don't get me wrong, I love the tourist based economy of central Florida because it creates a more diverse culture but you have to keep in mind the people footing the bill for this system.

High-speed rail is great but so is commuter and light rail. The last thing we or the people visiting here need is a knee jerk reaction or political solution to a transportation problem that has been building for 30 years. The first thing I noticed when I returned to Central Florida 2.5 years ago after a long absence was that the road system was still much the same along I-4 as it had been in the mid 70's. In effect, about 25 years behind where it should have been. Now unfortunately, we are playing catch up. With every lane or stretch of new roadway they add, it reaches capacity shortly after opening.

Instead of arguing about which route to take, everyone should be sitting down and developing a long-term comprehensive plan to solve the area's transportation problems that will serve the residents and the tourists alike. Then everyone needs to take responsibility for the financing of the solution and strive to make it a reality.
 

pheneix

Well-Known Member
Three things immediately pop into mind when I see this debate:

1. This is a state-funded high speed rail system.

2. The shiny new convention center that the state spent a fortune on is state-funded. Does anyone honestly think that this building will be BYPASSED on any rail system?

3. Disney hasn't done a damn thing for either of these state funded projects (except and whine about why they don't benefit Disney and only Disney), whereas companies like Universal and Sea World have. Even the ripoff tourist traps and hotels on I-drive have the advantage of actually being in the immediate area. Do I need to mention that the land that part of the new convention center and the surrounding developments that have popped up was sold to the city by Universal? What about that new upscale shopping and dining complex that Sea World is building?

These reasons make me believe that Orlando will make the decision to prioritize I-drive, Universal, and the Convention Center over Disney. Disney isn't synonomous with Orlando anymore, and the city knows that. Whether or not Disney has come to this realization or even cares does not mean a hill of beans in this matter.

Tom Lewis can have however many "Words" with the Orlando paper that we wants, but the sad fact is that Disney's days of ruling Orlando with an iron fist ARE OVER .
 
Isnt the purpose of a high speed train to cover great distances at speed? So how will this benefit I-Drive? Will it be stopping every couple blocks? Doesnt that defeat the purpose? There is also more too it than greed. Disney's mission is to transport guests to another world and the Greenway is much more suited for a scenic journey to WDW than I-4 or the beeline.
 

MGM WDWFan

New Member
The fact is that something has got to be done to relieve the constant and overwhelming pressure on I-4. Disney is going to have to bite the bullet on this one, I think, and hope that some carrot in the form of a direct airport-to-site deal is established.

--MGM
 

GoCamels

Active Member
Disney will come to its senses soon enough. The obvious solution that makes the most sense on BOTH sides is to have an express from MCO to WDW and then local trains that stop at the other proposed sites.

With the steady increase of traffic in ALL metro areas that are spread out over a large suburban sprawl...such as most of the south's metros...its only a mattrer of time before people want easier access to WDW.

Compromise will come, its just going to take some level-headed conversation at a get together or two to get this worked out.

This ios one of the best solutions to the ever growing ground transportation problems out of MCO. Of course you know if the compromise is reached and this thing gets closer to reality, there will be a real stink from the ground transportation providers.

BTW...anyone know why the 3-letter designation for Orlando Intl is "MCO". Some others around the world don't make sense in some cities, but others do...like RDU for Raleigh-Durham, ORF for Norfolk, VA and CLT for Charlotte. But, I can't quite figure out why MCO? I know ORL is taken by Orlando Executive Airport.
 

jmarc63

New Member
Originally posted by GoCamels

BTW...anyone know why the 3-letter designation for Orlando Intl is "MCO". Some others around the world don't make sense in some cities, but others do...like RDU for Raleigh-Durham, ORF for Norfolk, VA and CLT for Charlotte. But, I can't quite figure out why MCO? I know ORL is taken by Orlando Executive Airport.

Gocamels, airport desiginations were established at the time each airport was/is commisioned by the FAA or its predecessor agency (name escapes me now) and the code was usually created using the original Airport name. When the local government changes the official name of an Airport the code doesn't change. The reason OIA has the airport code MCO is because when that facility started its life it was a military airbase called McCoy Air Force Base. In 1970 Commercial Airline service started at the Base. ( I assume that it had something to due with the increase of air traffic to WDW). In 1974 the Air Force Base was closed and Became a Commercial Airport. In 1976 McCoy was renamed Orlando International Airport (OIA) But the MCO code stayed. That is why the Airport code is MCO for IOA.

Chicago's O'Hare Airport has the designation of ORD because when it opened it was called Orchard Field, then renamed soon after for WWII hero "Butch" O'Hare, when Midway Airport opened it wad given the code MDW for it and the City hasn't renamed the facility so the Airport code makes sense.
 

SamatBCV

Member
Actually if you look at it from a business point of view, Disney has little to lose by digging in its heels. It is still the biggest reason people come to Orlando. If it is not on the rail line, people won't stop coming to WDW. However, if the rail line doesn't go to WDW, the company that will be running the line (according to one article, the operation of the line will be run by a vendor) will lose a lot of revenue from people who would have otherwise used it to get to WDW. The state would lose out as well since they would not get the taxes on the fares.

Furthermore, I understand what your saying pheneix about other businesses (Universal, Sea World, etc.) being closer to the city and possibly helping Orlando directly. However, Disney is the biggest taxpayer in the county and those taxes help Orlando. Plus there is the fact that Disney pretty much made Orlando a tourist destination and brought in jobs and revenue. I'm not saying Disney is altruistic, but they have helped Orlando as, at worst, a side effect.

Personally, if its going to be high speed, like other posters have said, it doesn't make sense to have a lot of stops. After all is said and done though, I think it would make more sense to just put in a commuter line that would make the additional stops. High speed rail just doesn't seem to make a lot of sense from the big picture. You'd still need to transfer from the train to busses to get to the resorts, so you wouldn't save all that much time.
 

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