Thunder Mountain? Anybody scared now?

[bigbadwolf]

I think after the accidnt in DL, some people might avoid even going on the one in WDW... The ride has gone through a refurbishment, but do you really think the irde will be a popular as before? Especially at DL, I bet it will be worse!

 

[The_CEO]

I will ride it with pride.

 

[SpongeScott]

Why would you not ride it? Ever flown in a plane? Ever ridden in a car? Accidents/disasters have happened in them. Ever eaten food? People have choked to death on that stuff, you know. Why not ride it? It was an unfortunate accident. It's not Big Thunder Mountain Death Railroad.

 

[Merlin]

Originally posted by SpongeScott
Why would you not ride it? Ever flown in a plane? Ever ridden in a car? Accidents/disasters have happened in them. Ever eaten food? People have choked to death on that stuff, you know. Why not ride it? It was an unfortunate accident. It's not Big Thunder Mountain Death Railroad.

I am of the belief that the ride at WDW will be reasonably safe (as will the DL version when it reopens). Typically after any disaster (especially a highly publicized one) the cause of a catastrophe is generally much safer (at least at first) because of heavy scrutiny. So during my visit to WDW next week (woo hoo!) I will ride BTMRR without any worries.

That being said, I do think it is worth pointing out, however, that your examples aren't particularly relevant. I understand what you're trying to say, which is that essentially accidents can happen anywhere at any time. But let's keep this in perspective. The BTMRR tragedy at DL was not simply "an unfortunate accident" as you've stated. It was an event which could have (and SHOULD HAVE) been avoided. That person died needlessly because DL's former (thank God) regime was too cheap to make maintenance a priority. I know this is a sensitive topic for a lot of people, myself included. But I'm requesting nicely that you please not make light of it by stating that it was just "an unfortunate accident". It was much more than that.

 

[disneyisbest]

Anybody who walks out the door takes a chance. Of course people will still ride it and I will be one of them.

 

[pepper2028]

ok so the BTMR in DL had a little trouble.....it happens...sorry to say...nothing is perfect...not to say though that they dont have mayor security in place for the WDW BTMR. I have talked to a cast member that once work the ride who said that the ride is compleatly computer operated with collision sensors,and a gas system that measures the pressure in the rail to see if there has been a hair line fracture..I would not be worried at all to get on board with all the measures I have heard about

 

[MonorailGreen]

Both the DL version and WDW version are unique. Were they the same layouts though?? Even cloned rides aren't always EXACTLY the same... people may fear just because it bears the same name as a ride that had an accident. The DL one opened in 1979 and the WDW one in 1980. They can't be exactly the same to the last detail... wear and tear in Florida is different than what the California ride would deal with. More rain in Florida but the possiblity of Earthquakes in California. I don't think anyone should worry about anything... accidents happen all the time. Don't let Big Thunder down... keep the line times up :slurp:

 

[RogueHabit]

Originally posted by The_CEO
I will ride it with pride.

Here, Here!!!

I could not agree more. Next trip we'll be ridding the train and loving every minute of it!!!

 

[MrNonacho]

Originally posted by The_CEO
I will ride it with pride.

Thirded. It's probably safer than ever at this point.

 

[DisneyFan 2000]

I'll definetly ride it but there are people who still think it's unsafe...

I think it is now safer than driving a car!

 

[bigbadwolf]

TMRR

Is one of my favorite rides and of course i will go on it. I know we are fans of the WDW park.. But what about people who have never been there?

 

[Heyyall]

Of Course I'll Ride it

After months of refurbishment I'm sure the ride is perfectly safe. It's Disney, the most magical place on earth, and all though accidents happen, they can happen anywhere. Ride TMR!

 

[TURKEY]

Originally posted by Merlin
That being said, I do think it is worth pointing out, however, that your examples aren't particularly relevant. I understand what you're trying to say, which is that essentially accidents can happen anywhere at any time. But let's keep this in perspective. The BTMRR tragedy at DL was not simply "an unfortunate accident" as you've stated. It was an event which could have (and SHOULD HAVE) been avoided. That person died needlessly because DL's former (thank God) regime was too cheap to make maintenance a priority. I know this is a sensitive topic for a lot of people, myself included. But I'm requesting nicely that you please not make light of it by stating that it was just "an unfortunate accident". It was much more than that.

I don't see how you can blame this on the former regime. They didn't do the inspections. It was an accident, not done on purpose. It just wasn't noticed. True, it should have been avoided, but it was still an ACCIDENT.

 

[mickeysaver]

I will be riding my favorite MK ride on 12/14, 12/19, and 12/20. I can't wait! Maggie

If I gotta die, WDW would be a great place to go.

 

[SpongeScott]

Originally posted by Merlin
I But let's keep this in perspective. The BTMRR tragedy at DL was not simply "an unfortunate accident" as you've stated. It was an event which could have (and SHOULD HAVE) been avoided. But I'm requesting nicely that you please not make light of it by stating that it was just "an unfortunate accident". It was much more than that.

So, it was a "fortunate" accident? No, it was unfortunate that this happened, and as Brent mentioned, it was an accident. No one planned this or sabotaged this. Yes, it could have been avoided, just as other accidents could be avoided if someone had only done their job correctly. Unfortunately (there's that word again) we live in a world where human error does and will always play a part in tragedy. I'm sorry it happened, I hope something like it never happens again, but I still stand behind the "unfortunate accident" wording without making light of it. And I still say, why wouldn't someone ride it again?

 

[Scooter]

Originally posted by pepper2028
ok so the BTMR in DL had a little trouble.....it happens.


Wow! This is kind of an understatement wouldn't you say?
A man DIED for cryin out loud!

That's like saying on 9/11 a couple of buildings in New York toppled...oh well.

I was in a car accident years ago...after I healed I drove again..I was a little nervous..but I did it.

A month after 9/11 I flew to Disney World..I was a little scared..but I did it.

I imagine I will be a little apprehensive to ride BTMRR..but I will.

I refuse to spend the rest of my life worrying about something that may or may not happen. I will continue to Drive, fly and ride scary rides.

When my turn comes to leave this place it will happen..I have no control over that. In the mean time I'm going to live every day of my life like it's my last day...because some day it WILL be.

:animwink:

 

[Merlin]

Originally posted by SpongeScott
So, it was a "fortunate" accident? No, it was unfortunate that this happened, and as Brent mentioned, it was an accident. No one planned this or sabotaged this. Yes, it could have been avoided, just as other accidents could be avoided if someone had only done their job correctly. Unfortunately (there's that word again) we live in a world where human error does and will always play a part in tragedy. I'm sorry it happened, I hope something like it never happens again, but I still stand behind the "unfortunate accident" wording without making light of it. And I still say, why wouldn't someone ride it again?

I think you and I both know that's not what I meant. Nevertheless, let me attempt again to explain my point...

What I'm saying is that this was a much bigger deal than to simply refer to it as "an unfortunate accident". This was a tragedy. AND it was one which could have been avoided. Under Cynthia Harriss' management, maintenance was made a low priority. The blood of that poor young man is on her hands. DL was plagued by accidents during her tenure. If you don't believe me, go to the Consumer Product Safety Commission's web site and check it out for yourself. Compare DL's safety record to Six Flags, Busch Gardens, WDW and others during the past several years. It is absolutely atrocious! Cynthia Harriss took a park that has been known for decades as being safe, and turned it into death trap in the name of saving a few bucks. It's disgraceful. Thank goodness she is finally gone and has been replaced by someone who understands theme park operations and Disney culture. Now maybe DL can get back to it's former glory.

 

[LadyDarling]

We can point fingers at regimes and people and assign blame all we want. It won't change what happened. They have found the cause and it will probably not happen ever again.

Every time you step into a moving vehicle, when it comes down to it, you are risking life and limb. It doesn't matter if it's a roller coaster or a car.

It was an "accident", not an "on purpose".

As for me, I will be leading the line when it opens up in Disneyland. Not out of disrespect for the dead, but as someone else said, I refuse to spend my life worrying (yes, I flew after 9/11. In fact, I got married on 12/1 and most of our 250 invited guests were from Boston. 4 of the 150 we invited flew out to see us get married. Yes, we flew to Disneyworld a few days later).

It's a personal choice, however. No one is "making" anyone ride it. If you don't want to, don't. Me, I like Big Thunder, so count me in!

 

[TURKEY]

Originally posted by Merlin
I think you and I both know that's not what I meant. Nevertheless, let me attempt again to explain my point...

What I'm saying is that this was a much bigger deal than to simply refer to it as "an unfortunate accident". This was a tragedy. AND it was one which could have been avoided. Under Cynthia Harriss' management, maintenance was made a low priority. The blood of that poor young man is on her hands. DL was plagued by accidents during her tenure. If you don't believe me, go to the Consumer Product Safety Commission's web site and check it out for yourself. Compare DL's safety record to Six Flags, Busch Gardens, WDW and others during the past several years. It is absolutely atrocious! Cynthia Harriss took a park that has been known for decades as being safe, and turned it into death trap in the name of saving a few bucks. It's disgraceful. Thank goodness she is finally gone and has been replaced by someone who understands theme park operations and Disney culture. Now maybe DL can get back to it's former glory.

So she is to fault for every accident that happened during her reign? Give me a break. Sure she has to accept some responsibility, but CM still have to do their jobs correctly.


Having improper training, if the case (not Cynthia's fault) is the fault of trainers and managers that fail to force correct procedures to be done. Not reporting something that may seem simple is a CM fault. She can't know every single thing that's going on at all times. It goes to the top, but Cynthia couldn't go and train each and every CM how to do their job. No CEO/President/VP with that large of work force and responsibility can. Blaming every accident that happens at Disneyland on her is absurd.


I don't think it matters who is in charge, unless new CM are properly trained on what to look for, do, etc, things like this are at a higher risk of this happening again. I think it could happen in WDW at any time. It seems that many CM are just there for a paycheck and slack in their duties and don't necessarily follow proper procedures at all times.

I see custodians just walk by popcorn spills. I see attraction CM's talking to each other instead of trying to answer a guest's question. I see CM that don't bother to properly dress in costume and other Disney Costume standards.

Things like this sometimes make me wonder what's really going on and if these simple things are being ignored, what about other things that aren't so simple?


*** Note: This isn't just a WDW/DL problem. I see it everywhere I go. I'm not going to stop going to WDW and doing the things I enjoy. ***

 

[Merlin]

Originally posted by turkey leg boy
So she is to fault for every accident that happened during her reign?

Yes! She is 100% at fault. And no, that is not an "absurd" statement.

Let me try to properly explain my point once again, because it is becoming abundantly clear to me that a lot of people don't quite understand the true cause behind these accidents.

During Cynthia's "reign", maintenance and training were made low priorities. This trickles down to VPs, Supervisors, and all other employees under her. If the problems on Big Thunder, Columbia, Space Mountain and Roger Rabbit were due to poor maintenance and/or improper training, then the fault points back to her. She was the one who established policies that resulted in these problems. If her policies had not been in place, and an accident occured, then I would agree it was just a fluke thing. But during her tenure, there was a terrifying pattern and nothing was done about it. DL did not have these problems prior to Cynthia Harris. Sure, accidents occured, but it you go back and look at the history, those accidents were primarily due to guest errors (trying to stand up on rides, etc). The problems that occured under Cynthia's management were not due to guest errors. They were due to things breaking down. Likewise, WDW has never had these problems. Why? Because WDW never had Cynthia Harriss. This is why I adamantly disagree when people try to blame Paul Pressler instead of Cynthia Harriss. I'm no Pressler fan, believe me. But if the fatal injuries were his fault, they would have happened at WDW as well.

You also can't blame the problems on the fact that DL is an older park (as some have tried to offer as an explanation). That would make no sense. There are plenty of attractions at WDW which are older than the attractions at DL that had these accidents.

Part of my contention that this is all Cynthia's fault comes from personal experience that I have had with her. Anyone who was working at the Disney Store during her tenure there may understand if you got to know her at all (and by "got to know her", I don't mean just having met her once or twice...She always did a good job of making a great first impression).