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News Primeval Whirl, Stitch's Great Escape and Rivers of Light permanently closed

Chip Chipperson

Well-Known Member
That's the argument about AK that always annoys me. "It's not like there is an overabundance of rides at the park". As if the walking trails and shows are completely worthless. AK is a unique park. In addition to "rides", there are three live shows (as of this week, in fact), one 3D movie, and two main walking trails and worth experiencing. If park commandos would only stop and take the time to enjoy everything there is to offer in AK, it wouldn't be the "half-day" park as they claim.

I agree. Animal Kingdom shouldn't become a park that's overrun with rides - although it could use 1 or 2 more to spread out the crowds a bit (especially if the new ride(s) aren't E-ticket level, but still good enough to draw people away from other things in the park). I've never done any of the trails at Animal Kingdom, but I'm hoping to rectify that on my next visit to the park. At first, I didn't even know about most of the trails, etc. at the park. I knew about the train but thought it was just a thing for kids (and wasn't even sure where it was, anyway). On my next visit, I plan to do the Gorilla Falls trail or the Wildlife Express, if not both.
 

JohnD

Well-Known Member
I agree. Animal Kingdom shouldn't become a park that's overrun with rides - although it could use 1 or 2 more to spread out the crowds a bit (especially if the new ride(s) aren't E-ticket level, but still good enough to draw people away from other things in the park). I've never done any of the trails at Animal Kingdom, but I'm hoping to rectify that on my next visit to the park. At first, I didn't even know about most of the trails, etc. at the park. I knew about the train but thought it was just a thing for kids (and wasn't even sure where it was, anyway). On my next visit, I plan to do the Gorilla Falls trail or the Wildlife Express, if not both.

The other main walking trail is the Maharaja Jungle Trek in Asia where you can see tigers, among other animals. Smaller walking trails with smaller animal exhibits include Oasis (it's not just the AK "Main Street". Stop and look around at the animals there) and the Discovery Island trail by the Tree of Life. The Wildlife Express is hit-or-miss. It basically takes you to a petting zoo and there may or may not be a demonstration show of one sort or the other there.
 

CastAStone

Lead Contractor for Splash Mountain demolition
Premium Member
No, not for Disney. Those coasters typically have a shed for maintenance and a covered platform for loading. They are not integrated with a large building. It’s also not just construction, people lump in the design time for TRON because dirt was moved as part rod the use of early site work and fast-track project delivery.
Disney is extremely good at building buildings expeditiously, they build hotels on very normal timetables. They’re also good at building rides in California quickly. Spider-Man and indeed the entire Avengers Campus took less than 3 years despite a pandemic. Timelines continuously seem to be a problem confined to attractions at WDW. I don’t think it’s an unfair criticism.
 

Comped

Well-Known Member
Disney is extremely good at building buildings expeditiously, they build hotels on very normal timetables. They’re also good at building rides in California quickly. Spider-Man and indeed the entire Avengers Campus took less than 3 years despite a pandemic. Timelines continuously seem to be a problem confined to attractions at WDW. I don’t think it’s an unfair criticism.
It's historically been a problem with BVC more than anything else, from what I'm told. Disney essentially needs to rebuild their construction companies in Florida to get attractions built on the right timetables.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Disney is extremely good at building buildings expeditiously, they build hotels on very normal timetables. They’re also good at building rides in California quickly. Spider-Man and indeed the entire Avengers Campus took less than 3 years despite a pandemic. Timelines continuously seem to be a problem confined to attractions at WDW. I don’t think it’s an unfair criticism.
I’m not saying Disney isn’t slow, I’m saying TRON is not an example of that slowness.

And it’s not unique to Walt Disney World. Avengers Campus spent years in development hell, reused a lot of existing facilities so it couldn’t do things like early site work and opened with its major new attraction still stuck in development hell.

The criticism becomes unfair because people just pick some date when they see something happening and then assume all projects start that visible work at the same time in the design process and that the design process is short and uniform. People assumed that work should have started sooner on TRON and Ratatouille because “they were already designed.”
It's historically been a problem with BVC more than anything else, from what I'm told. Disney essentially needs to rebuild their construction companies in Florida to get attractions built on the right timetables.
Buena Vista Construction doesn’t build the major projects. That’s handled by third party contractors and they’re not the issue.
 

MisterPenguin

🐧🐧Pfizer x2 🐧🐧🐧Moderna 2+bi🐧
Premium Member
Pre-pandemic, when I compared Disney building to Universal building using site (de)construction as the starting point. Universal was faster, but, not by much. And there were several projects Disney built as quickly as Uni. But, people often exaggerated the difference.

The Potter lands were each 2.5 years. Pandora was 3.5 years. But several people on these forums kept saying that Potter took 2 years and Pandora took 4 years, changing the one year difference to two years.

I regard any type of measure or comparison that took place over the pandemic as unhelpful. If one company wants to forge ahead with construction while the other decides to halt, how do you then compare 'build times' between them? Despite scoffs and calls to "just pay more!" there was indeed a labor and supply shortage.

Any comparisons in the past three years is, in my considered opinion, useless.

We've seen Disney drag its feet on several projects and then suddenly accelerate them. Rather than concluding that Disney is just slow in building, a better reason would be that decisions to halt or forge ahead were made on cash balances and projected earnings, especially considering Disney just had two of their world parks shut down again.

Oh, BTW, WRT TRON... as a sign of the flying by the seat of the pants, WDW originally had TRON in one place in their first permit, and then moved it in their second permit.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
The Wildlife Express is hit-or-miss. It basically takes you to a petting zoo and there may or may not be a demonstration show of one sort or the other there.

They have the animation experience up there full time now -- focused on drawing different animal characters. It's pretty fun and worth going up there to do.

We drew Tick-Tock when I was there last.
 

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
Pre-pandemic, when I compared Disney building to Universal building using site (de)construction as the starting point. Universal was faster, but, not by much. And there were several projects Disney built as quickly as Uni. But, people often exaggerated the difference.

The Potter lands were each 2.5 years. Pandora was 3.5 years. But several people on these forums kept saying that Potter took 2 years and Pandora took 4 years, changing the one year difference to two years.

I regard any type of measure or comparison that took place over the pandemic as unhelpful. If one company wants to forge ahead with construction while the other decides to halt, how do you then compare 'build times' between them? Despite scoffs and calls to "just pay more!" there was indeed a labor and supply shortage.

Any comparisons in the past three years is, in my considered opinion, useless.

We've seen Disney drag its feet on several projects and then suddenly accelerate them. Rather than concluding that Disney is just slow in building, a better reason would be that decisions to halt or forge ahead were made on cash balances and projected earnings, especially considering Disney just had two of their world parks shut down again.

Oh, BTW, WRT TRON... as a sign of the flying by the seat of the pants, WDW originally had TRON in one place in their first permit, and then moved it in their second permit.
I think it would have looked stunning on Tom Sawyer Island as originally planned. The Grid across from Haunted Mansion? Chef’s kiss.
 

MisterPenguin

🐧🐧Pfizer x2 🐧🐧🐧Moderna 2+bi🐧
Premium Member
I think it would have looked stunning on Tom Sawyer Island as originally planned. The Grid across from Haunted Mansion? Chef’s kiss.
TRON cycles should have gone through the castle and the whole Western side of the park. It would've been like the people mover. And then it could have been pitched as the cycles breaking out of their computer arcade game and going through computer MMORPGs set in different genres!!
 

Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
I’m not saying Disney isn’t slow, I’m saying TRON is not an example of that slowness.

And it’s not unique to Walt Disney World. Avengers Campus spent years in development hell, reused a lot of existing facilities so it couldn’t do things like early site work and opened with its major new attraction still stuck in development hell.

The criticism becomes unfair because people just pick some date when they see something happening and then assume all projects start that visible work at the same time in the design process and that the design process is short and uniform. People assumed that work should have started sooner on TRON and Ratatouille because “they were already designed.”

Buena Vista Construction doesn’t build the major projects. That’s handled by third party contractors and they’re not the issue.
IMO Disney would be better off not announcing anything til later in the process of creating the new attraction. The critism comes from that most other parks don't announce the new attraction til it's passed the planning and development stage. Due to that it feels it's done much quicker.
 

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
TRON cycles should have gone through the castle and the whole Western side of the park. It would've been like the people mover. And then it could have been pitched as the cycles breaking out of their computer arcade game and going through computer MMORPGs set in different genres!!
That’s the only way I would have ever gotten into the Cinderella Castle Suite…
 

MickeyLuv'r

Well-Known Member
The Wildlife Express is hit-or-miss. It basically takes you to a petting zoo and there may or may not be a demonstration show of one sort or the other there.
Currently, a key thing to do when visiting Rafiki's Planet Watch is the animation drawing class. Current schedule (subject to change) is 10am, 10:45am, 11:30am, 12:15pm, 1:45pm, 2:30pm, 3:15pm, 4pm, and 4:45pm.

The class takes about 25minutes. An animator shows step-by-step how to draw a Disney or Pixar character. It is open to all ages but is a little beyond the ability of very young children. (They are given classic coloring book pages and crayons if they want.) Everyone else comes away with a free drawing if they participate.

I agree the animal attractions are worth visiting, but I also think AK needs more attractions. For a long time, the only rides small children could ride were the safari, Triceratops Spin and later Na'vi. Compared to over 15 attractions they can ride in MK. Even Epcot has 7 all ages rides.
 

JohnD

Well-Known Member
Currently, a key thing to do when visiting Rafiki's Planet Watch is the animation drawing class. Current schedule (subject to change) is 10am, 10:45am, 11:30am, 12:15pm, 1:45pm, 2:30pm, 3:15pm, 4pm, and 4:45pm.

The class takes about 25minutes. An animator shows step-by-step how to draw a Disney or Pixar character. It is open to all ages but is a little beyond the ability of very young children. (They are given classic coloring book pages and crayons if they want.) Everyone else comes away with a free drawing if they participate.

I agree the animal attractions are worth visiting, but I also think AK needs more attractions. For a long time, the only rides small children could ride were the safari, Triceratops Spin and later Na'vi. Compared to over 15 attractions they can ride in MK. Even Epcot has 7 all ages rides.

When I'm asked the best parks for children, I say MK and AK. MK is obvious. What AK lacks in rides, it makes up for in the live shows, animal walking trails and Rafiki's which includes the petting zoo.
 

mikejs78

Premium Member
Attractions also aren't built in a vaccum. The whole of WDW is an operational juggernaut, and for a new attraction to be added, it needs to be inserted into that juggernaut - electrical grid, park operations, utilidor access, etc. Even the land use is more complicated than WDW then elsewhere -WDW is basically a swamp that has been engineered to the max to support what's there.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Attractions also aren't built in a vaccum. The whole of WDW is an operational juggernaut, and for a new attraction to be added, it needs to be inserted into that juggernaut - electrical grid, park operations, utilidor access, etc. Even the land use is more complicated than WDW then elsewhere -WDW is basically a swamp that has been engineered to the max to support what's there.
Those issues aren’t really different than anywhere else, particularly in Central Florida. Disney owning the local electric company makes electric service easier. The utilidors don’t get expanded so they’re largely a non-issue.
 

Jon81uk

Well-Known Member
Pre-pandemic, when I compared Disney building to Universal building using site (de)construction as the starting point. Universal was faster, but, not by much. And there were several projects Disney built as quickly as Uni. But, people often exaggerated the difference.

The Potter lands were each 2.5 years. Pandora was 3.5 years. But several people on these forums kept saying that Potter took 2 years and Pandora took 4 years, changing the one year difference to two years.
The bigger issue with Pandora was the time of announcement through to time of opening was so long.
As Universal doesn’t make official announcements until construction is almost finished it makes all their projects feel quicker.
Although the construction time might not be too bad, overall project length is Disney’s issue.
 

Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
The bigger issue with Pandora was the time of announcement through to time of opening was so long.
As Universal doesn’t make official announcements until construction is almost finished it makes all their projects feel quicker.
Although the construction time might not be too bad, overall project length is Disney’s issue.
Agreed. That's one thing that Disney could learn from not just Universal but every other park out there. Don't announce til after the planning stage and construction has started. Imagine the hype they could get if they changed the way they announce things. Why not start building something new before D23 and then announce it as opening a year or 2 later.
 

Vegas Disney Fan

Well-Known Member
Agreed. That's one thing that Disney could learn from not just Universal but every other park out there. Don't announce til after the planning stage and construction has started. Imagine the hype they could get if they changed the way they announce things. Why not start building something new before D23 and then announce it as opening a year or 2 later.

People would endlessly speculate and search building permits, etc if they just started building without an announcement, it would create great buzz.

The downside would be that a lot of people have to save for a few years to be able to afford a Disney trip, the earlier they announce the earlier people get excited and start saving.
 

Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
People would endlessly speculate and search building permits, etc if they just started building without an announcement, it would create great buzz.

The downside would be that a lot of people have to save for a few years to be able to afford a Disney trip, the earlier they announce the earlier people get excited and start saving.
I disagree a bit with your last point. I don't think new attractions really bump attendance like it does to regional parks.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
People would endlessly speculate and search building permits, etc if they just started building without an announcement, it would create great buzz.

The downside would be that a lot of people have to save for a few years to be able to afford a Disney trip, the earlier they announce the earlier people get excited and start saving.
Except the people complaining about timelines are the ones seeing permits and work, so they still know something is happening before this closer date that would change perception. People don’t talk about how quickly the Skyliner was built even though it’s announcement was held off.
 

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