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Pacemakers and rides
- Thread starter Dawnie
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copper
Member
I've been meaning to start a thread about pacemakers at Disney World but but since you started one I'll add what I know. I'll start off by saying that one of my daughters has a pacemakers, she is nine and got her pacemaker when she was 4. She has heartblock which is caused by an electrical circuit (signal) in the heart that doesn't function correctly and was probably caused by contracting Lyme disease when she was little. It is not considered a major heart problem that causes her to alter her life in anyway ie: she is on a swim team, sails/races an Optimist dinghy everyday during the summer, skis, rides horses, soccer etc. and rides almost everything in Disney.
This is a myth about people with pacemakers not being able to ride the monarail and other rides for that matter. My daughters cardiologist is a big disney fan too and I consulted with her when she first got her pacemaker. She could go on everything that she wanted to but the only concern was the overhead restraints on rides like Rock Roll Rollercoaster and AE because they may press to tightly against the pacemaker but as she grew the restaint bar wouldn't be an issue. They are more concerned with the pacemaker getting dislodged by ways of getting hit in the chest. The only real restrictions are no contact sports ie: football, metal detectors, cell phones next to the pacemaker, security systems in stores (don't stand in front of it but no one should anyway) and magnets. There are electromagnectic fields everywhere today and it is impossible to avoid in daily life. Frankly, our problems with having a pacemaker, arises from peoples ignorance on the subject and air travel. Everyone thinks of a sickly person and treats them as such when they know they have one. You would never know that my daughter has a pacemaker unless I told you. Air travel post 9/11 has been a nightmare for us! I usually fly with alone with my 9 year old idential twin daughters and going through security is always a bummer for us. We have to go through the metal detector but my one daughter can not so she has to be escorted around and then patted down with rubber gloves in public and it can be humilliating! It also gets confusing for people because my girls are identical twins and sometimes the both get patted down! That's life right now and we just have to deal with unpleasent air travel like everyone else.
My only concern about rides at Disney is the new Mission Space. I'm not sure if the G forces are good for her but she loves the gravitron at carnivals and I'm sure thats a lot worse then MS. I'm going to ask her cardiologist before we go but I'm more concerned about getting nauseous.
This is a myth about people with pacemakers not being able to ride the monarail and other rides for that matter. My daughters cardiologist is a big disney fan too and I consulted with her when she first got her pacemaker. She could go on everything that she wanted to but the only concern was the overhead restraints on rides like Rock Roll Rollercoaster and AE because they may press to tightly against the pacemaker but as she grew the restaint bar wouldn't be an issue. They are more concerned with the pacemaker getting dislodged by ways of getting hit in the chest. The only real restrictions are no contact sports ie: football, metal detectors, cell phones next to the pacemaker, security systems in stores (don't stand in front of it but no one should anyway) and magnets. There are electromagnectic fields everywhere today and it is impossible to avoid in daily life. Frankly, our problems with having a pacemaker, arises from peoples ignorance on the subject and air travel. Everyone thinks of a sickly person and treats them as such when they know they have one. You would never know that my daughter has a pacemaker unless I told you. Air travel post 9/11 has been a nightmare for us! I usually fly with alone with my 9 year old idential twin daughters and going through security is always a bummer for us. We have to go through the metal detector but my one daughter can not so she has to be escorted around and then patted down with rubber gloves in public and it can be humilliating! It also gets confusing for people because my girls are identical twins and sometimes the both get patted down! That's life right now and we just have to deal with unpleasent air travel like everyone else.
My only concern about rides at Disney is the new Mission Space. I'm not sure if the G forces are good for her but she loves the gravitron at carnivals and I'm sure thats a lot worse then MS. I'm going to ask her cardiologist before we go but I'm more concerned about getting nauseous.
copper
Member
I have never heard of Telsa coils and how do they affect pacemakers? Maybe you don't want to hold a telsa coil over the pacemaker but Pacemakers are made extremely sofisticated these days, my daughters is made of titanium and nothing will stop the pacemaker from working except blunt force to the chest that could dislodge it. People with Pacemakers can set off the metal detectors but so can people with metal plates in their body. The biggest problem for people with pacemakers today are CELLPHONES and only if they are held directly over the pacemaker. It was suggested that my daughter hold a cell phone on her right side away from her pacemaker. Frankly store security systems also interfere with pacemakers but will still go in stores! Look it really depends on what your cardiologist says and how severe a heart problem you have. My daughter is not Pacemaker dependent, that is, if it stops her heart will still keep beating. Chances are if you have a pacemaker you already know what isn't good for you. By the way, my daughter has been on AE and she was fine and it didn't interfere with her pacemaker. She also hates that ride, if you can call it a ride. We will be going on it when it reopens as Stitch. I'm a little iffy about Mission Space but I'm going to ask her Cardiologist.
Tesla Coils are used for fake lightning/electrical discharge effects. They create a HUGE magnetic field, which can affect pacemakers.
Like I said, there are 2 chambers, and only one has the effects in it. Not to mention, when it's not busy, they only load one chamber, and it's the one without the effects. Not to mention, just because it can affect a pacemaker, doesn't mean that it will.
X2CommNavISTC
Account Suspended
We at ISTC have built our X2 trainers to accomidate a vast majority of people with many times of slight problems they might have. With the exception of the people who are afraid of small spaces, which is really the main problem we see. Also, the whole spinning ordeal is another thing we have problems with, but that is because of the trainees and their stupidity after we tell them not to close their eyes.
I will however say that you should check with your daughter's cardiologist just to be on the safe side. We've delt with people who have pacemakers at ISTC facilities around the world who have gone on to become some of the greatest people that I've ever met. But there are those who couldn't handle the training because of their PMs so they ended up joining Mission Control and went on to other things.
I will however say that you should check with your daughter's cardiologist just to be on the safe side. We've delt with people who have pacemakers at ISTC facilities around the world who have gone on to become some of the greatest people that I've ever met. But there are those who couldn't handle the training because of their PMs so they ended up joining Mission Control and went on to other things.
MouseRight
Active Member
I am 47 years old. I have Hypertrpohic Cardio Myopathy - an enlarged center wall of the heart. I have an ICD (Implanted Cardiac Defibrillator)/Pace Maker. The Pace Maker is always on pacing my heart to push blood flow through teh left ventricle valve blocked by the wall of teh heart being enlarged. The ICD is poised to zap (just like the paddles used in emergency rooms but not as powerful) when my rhythm is irregular to prevent flat lining. The wonders of modern medicine. All of the warnings and precautions mentioned above are true. One additional. The magnetic field thrown out by the store secuity gates can confuse teh ICD into thinking that the heart's rythm is off and it could create a defib episode (feels like a kick in teh chest they tell me).
I have been on all of WDW rides, including M:S, Dinosaur, Space Moutain, Test Track, etc many times and have had no problems. Sitting in my chair stressed out about life causes me more heart discomforat than any of teh rides do. However, I would definitly check with a doctor if you are concerned. Be preprared to have a good description of the ride and its related G:Forces, weightlessness, etc. I guess that woudl help your doctor.
As we can see from teh Hulk incident earlier thsi week, if you are not feeling good that day - e.g., pain in unusual places, warning signs (pain and paralysis in left arms, etc.) I woudl stay off of teh ride. Sounds like that woman had not been feeling good all day - unusual jaw pain - and got sick on the Hulk.
I have been on all of WDW rides, including M:S, Dinosaur, Space Moutain, Test Track, etc many times and have had no problems. Sitting in my chair stressed out about life causes me more heart discomforat than any of teh rides do. However, I would definitly check with a doctor if you are concerned. Be preprared to have a good description of the ride and its related G:Forces, weightlessness, etc. I guess that woudl help your doctor.
As we can see from teh Hulk incident earlier thsi week, if you are not feeling good that day - e.g., pain in unusual places, warning signs (pain and paralysis in left arms, etc.) I woudl stay off of teh ride. Sounds like that woman had not been feeling good all day - unusual jaw pain - and got sick on the Hulk.
copper
Member
Thank you Mouseright for your input. I'm glad to hear you went on Mission Space! I'll run it by her doctor but I'm sure she will green light it. What many people don't understand is that people with pacemakers live very normal active lives. Living in todays world of technology it is almost imposible to avoid electromagnectic fields, they are everywhere. You would have to live in a bubble your entire life to avoid them (and even the bubble would have them).
Stress is a lot worse for you then rides at Disney. Go ahead and ride everything!
Stress is a lot worse for you then rides at Disney. Go ahead and ride everything!
SpectroMan
New Member
My dad has a pacemaker too, and he seems not to have any problems with the rides at Disney World. He has ridden every ride y'all have talked about except Mission: Space. Actually, most everyday things are more harmful than the rides at Disney World. Cell phones are the worst!
WDW John
Member
Hey, copper,
I've had my pacemaker for just over a year now and I'll be making my first flight since getting next month when I head down to WDW. Just curious about what you need to do at airport security. I've got a couple of different cards from Medtronic and Guidant but I'm not too clear on what I need to do when I get there. My cardiologist said I just need to show them the card and then they'll check me out. He made it sound pretty simple but he hasn't had to go through it himself.
I'm just curious about what I'll need to do and how much time I should expect to spend dealing with them at security.
Also, you are right about the way some of us PM recipients are treated. I really can do everything I did before I got it. I do a lot of water skiing and barefooting and sometimes I take some pretty hard falls and everything is just fine. My cardiologist told me I only need to worry if I get a direct hit by a football player (mine is also made of titanium).
And, regarding EMFs, I work in an environment where I am surrounded by machinery that create some quite large EMFs all day long, I have no trouble at all. My doctor said that they can be a concern sometimes but for the most part I don't need to worry. EMFs were more of a problem in the early PM days.
Thanks in advance for any airport security advice,
I've had my pacemaker for just over a year now and I'll be making my first flight since getting next month when I head down to WDW. Just curious about what you need to do at airport security. I've got a couple of different cards from Medtronic and Guidant but I'm not too clear on what I need to do when I get there. My cardiologist said I just need to show them the card and then they'll check me out. He made it sound pretty simple but he hasn't had to go through it himself.
I'm just curious about what I'll need to do and how much time I should expect to spend dealing with them at security.
Also, you are right about the way some of us PM recipients are treated. I really can do everything I did before I got it. I do a lot of water skiing and barefooting and sometimes I take some pretty hard falls and everything is just fine. My cardiologist told me I only need to worry if I get a direct hit by a football player (mine is also made of titanium).
And, regarding EMFs, I work in an environment where I am surrounded by machinery that create some quite large EMFs all day long, I have no trouble at all. My doctor said that they can be a concern sometimes but for the most part I don't need to worry. EMFs were more of a problem in the early PM days.
Thanks in advance for any airport security advice,
MouseRight
Active Member
All you do is go to the security cehckpoint and tell them you have a pacemaker. You still have to put yoru suff on teh belt. Then you go around the machines. Thsi si where it gets a little tricky. In some airports the machines are walled off, so you have to leave your stuff on the belt and then go araound a wall and will lose contact with your bags. Make sure you tell the TSA guard that you arerconcerned about leaving your stuff and can they insure that someone willrwatch it. They ma or may not care. If you are with someone it is easier since they can watch and collect your stuff. Some guards are real nice and make sure you get your stuff and others just leave it on teh end of teh belt after the machine x-rays it. KEep your wallet and tciket with you when you go around to teh special section. They will check it agaon and then pat you down. Don't let them use teh wands, they are magenteic and not good for you rpacemaker/icd. They will probably give you a seat and take your shoes to put through the machine. Then you are free to go. All fo this is in full view of everyone at the checkpoint, so hopefully you don't embarras easy. Takes a few extra minutes in most airports. I have never been subjected to major delays.
copper
Member
WDW John,
Just give yourself more time at the airport, like everyone else. My problems arise because I have a young child with a pacemaker and she is an identical twin so It always screws up the security people. Sometimes they don't believe me, even when I show them the card, and the three of us get patted down (that happened our last trip). My girls are 9 so it is easier to travel with them but when I had the stroller going through security with a pacemaker
was a problem. To make matters even worse, I'm a widow (my husband died of Leukemia when the girls were 4) so I usually travel alone with the girls. We've had a lot of stress in our lives and Disney always makes it better so we don't mind the inconviences with travel because we know we are going to the happiest place on earth. Have a great time!
Just give yourself more time at the airport, like everyone else. My problems arise because I have a young child with a pacemaker and she is an identical twin so It always screws up the security people. Sometimes they don't believe me, even when I show them the card, and the three of us get patted down (that happened our last trip). My girls are 9 so it is easier to travel with them but when I had the stroller going through security with a pacemaker
was a problem. To make matters even worse, I'm a widow (my husband died of Leukemia when the girls were 4) so I usually travel alone with the girls. We've had a lot of stress in our lives and Disney always makes it better so we don't mind the inconviences with travel because we know we are going to the happiest place on earth. Have a great time!
WDW John
Member
Thanks!
Thanks for your responses, since I'll be traveling with my wife it probably won't be that bad since she can watch the bags. I've been singled out and pulled off to the side for a more thorough 'inspection' at security in the past and I imagine it will probably be somewhat similar.
Also, I don't get what the big deal is with magnets. I mean, when I do the over-the-phone check-up thing (I'm currently at every 3 months) they have me hold that good size magnet over the pacemaker for 30 seconds. Apparently it isn't harming anything. Granted I only do that for the phone call, (although, at times I've wanted to see if refrigerator magnets would stick to my chest!
) but it seems that the breif exposure I'd have to endure at a security checkpoint wouldn't be that detrimental.
Thanks again,
Thanks for your responses, since I'll be traveling with my wife it probably won't be that bad since she can watch the bags. I've been singled out and pulled off to the side for a more thorough 'inspection' at security in the past and I imagine it will probably be somewhat similar.
Also, I don't get what the big deal is with magnets. I mean, when I do the over-the-phone check-up thing (I'm currently at every 3 months) they have me hold that good size magnet over the pacemaker for 30 seconds. Apparently it isn't harming anything. Granted I only do that for the phone call, (although, at times I've wanted to see if refrigerator magnets would stick to my chest!
) but it seems that the breif exposure I'd have to endure at a security checkpoint wouldn't be that detrimental.Thanks again,
MouseRight
Active Member
As I understand it, the precaution is for both you and the screeners. You will definitly set off the alarms as you go through the metal detector or have the wand waived over your body - so why bother going through it and waste everyone's time and anxiety. As to the magent exposure, yes it is low, but why risk it if you don't have to. Also, with the ICD's, the magnet can trigger the defib if you are exposed to it for too long. I don't think I want that kick in the chest unless it is absolutely necessary.
Have a nice trip and here's hoping you get a beautiful TSA agent to give you teh once over!!!! :lol:
Have a nice trip and here's hoping you get a beautiful TSA agent to give you teh once over!!!! :lol:
WDW John
Member
Hey all,
I went in for my regular 6 month check-up yesterday and I made sure to ask about airport security and was told by my doctor that going through the metal detector would be inconsequential to the PM (for me anyway). He did say that it's best to stop, show the card and go around to avoid any confusion from the security personnel if I happen to set it off going through.
It was also mentioned that some people can go through without setting off the detector, it depends on body mass.
Just so you know, in my circumstance I need the PM "a fraction of 1% of the time" but when I do need it it will keep me conscious. The doc says that when my heart stops beating (without the PM) it will always start again but since I lose consciousness I could be injured or killed (if I was driving or using a chain-saw or whatever). With the PM my heart will continue to beat and deliver blood to my brain and keep me conscious and safe.
Thanks for all of your help,
I went in for my regular 6 month check-up yesterday and I made sure to ask about airport security and was told by my doctor that going through the metal detector would be inconsequential to the PM (for me anyway). He did say that it's best to stop, show the card and go around to avoid any confusion from the security personnel if I happen to set it off going through.
It was also mentioned that some people can go through without setting off the detector, it depends on body mass.
Just so you know, in my circumstance I need the PM "a fraction of 1% of the time" but when I do need it it will keep me conscious. The doc says that when my heart stops beating (without the PM) it will always start again but since I lose consciousness I could be injured or killed (if I was driving or using a chain-saw or whatever). With the PM my heart will continue to beat and deliver blood to my brain and keep me conscious and safe.
Thanks for all of your help,
Lovecraft
Member
Just a note regarding Tesla coils...
To clarify, the electrical lightning discharges they produce are not fake, thought they are used in shows etc. I can assure you that they are quite real high voltage lightning, just not as high voltage as the weather produces.
If I had a pacemaker that were affected by fluctuations in nearby electro-magnetic fields, I would not get anywhere near a tesla coil, plasma sculpture or anything of the like unless shielded entirely by a faraday cage.
Here is a little experiment you can do to show how tesla coils are REAL lighting. But I warn you do not let children do this, in fact don't do it yourself, just take it as a fact that the effect I describe is true. Definitly do not perform any action listed below or experiment with electricity unless you are knowledgable in high voltage experiments. Now with that said here is how you can see the electric discharge from even a very small tesla coil is real and can be dangerous:
Most of us are familiar with "plasma sculptures" if you aren't let me describe them. Plasma sculptures are gas filled glass globes with a miniature tesla coil inside that produces colored filaments of light which radiate from the end of the "coil" to the inside of the glass globe. The effects range from the look of lightning to just "weird" electrical discharges. Usually these sculptures, sold at wal-mart, target, and other stores, are touted as being "interactive" because of you place your hand on them, or even get close enough to them the patterns of electrical activity within them change and tend to follow where you touch. Normally, this is perfectly safe. BUT you can easily make the high voltage escape from the globe by placing a highly conductive material in intimate contact with the OUTSIDE surface of the glass -- say, a coin like a quarter, or even better, a gold wedding band. When this happens the conductive object becomes highly charged and a "bolt" of electricity will fly to the closest grounded or neutral object its new high voltage state will allow. Depending upon the voltage of the tesla coil inside the spark or bolt may be large or small -- generally, with plasma sculptures, the bolt is only at the most 3 milimeters in length, but that 3 mm is enough to burn a hole in flesh or even start a fire under proper conditions. To show this you can place a coin on a plasma sculpture then place your finger a couple of milimeters above the coin. This will cause a spark of electricy to jump from the coin to your finger, where it will proceed to burn tiny holes in your skin. You will not feel a shock because of the high frequency of the discharges but you will burn from the heat of the spark, and nearby radios can and will be affected adversly by the disruption caused by the radio frequency of the discharges, just like when lightning strikes -- only to a lesser degree and smaller range.
Lightning from an unshielded telsa coil is much like the sparks from the coin-- only bigger. It generally doesn't cause "shocking" because of its frequency, but the bolts are still hot, still ionize the surrounding air and when big enough produce thunder. To a limited extent, tesla coils and other high voltage devices that produce lightning can also produce x-rays.
Also, you will notice that digital watches will freak out when very close to a tesla coil, jacobs ladder or other high voltage source... I wouldn't want to risk anything that could be harmed by the low level output of a cellular phone by placing it near a high level output of a tesla coil.
--Lovecraft, mad scientist
To clarify, the electrical lightning discharges they produce are not fake, thought they are used in shows etc. I can assure you that they are quite real high voltage lightning, just not as high voltage as the weather produces.
If I had a pacemaker that were affected by fluctuations in nearby electro-magnetic fields, I would not get anywhere near a tesla coil, plasma sculpture or anything of the like unless shielded entirely by a faraday cage.
Here is a little experiment you can do to show how tesla coils are REAL lighting. But I warn you do not let children do this, in fact don't do it yourself, just take it as a fact that the effect I describe is true. Definitly do not perform any action listed below or experiment with electricity unless you are knowledgable in high voltage experiments. Now with that said here is how you can see the electric discharge from even a very small tesla coil is real and can be dangerous:
Most of us are familiar with "plasma sculptures" if you aren't let me describe them. Plasma sculptures are gas filled glass globes with a miniature tesla coil inside that produces colored filaments of light which radiate from the end of the "coil" to the inside of the glass globe. The effects range from the look of lightning to just "weird" electrical discharges. Usually these sculptures, sold at wal-mart, target, and other stores, are touted as being "interactive" because of you place your hand on them, or even get close enough to them the patterns of electrical activity within them change and tend to follow where you touch. Normally, this is perfectly safe. BUT you can easily make the high voltage escape from the globe by placing a highly conductive material in intimate contact with the OUTSIDE surface of the glass -- say, a coin like a quarter, or even better, a gold wedding band. When this happens the conductive object becomes highly charged and a "bolt" of electricity will fly to the closest grounded or neutral object its new high voltage state will allow. Depending upon the voltage of the tesla coil inside the spark or bolt may be large or small -- generally, with plasma sculptures, the bolt is only at the most 3 milimeters in length, but that 3 mm is enough to burn a hole in flesh or even start a fire under proper conditions. To show this you can place a coin on a plasma sculpture then place your finger a couple of milimeters above the coin. This will cause a spark of electricy to jump from the coin to your finger, where it will proceed to burn tiny holes in your skin. You will not feel a shock because of the high frequency of the discharges but you will burn from the heat of the spark, and nearby radios can and will be affected adversly by the disruption caused by the radio frequency of the discharges, just like when lightning strikes -- only to a lesser degree and smaller range.
Lightning from an unshielded telsa coil is much like the sparks from the coin-- only bigger. It generally doesn't cause "shocking" because of its frequency, but the bolts are still hot, still ionize the surrounding air and when big enough produce thunder. To a limited extent, tesla coils and other high voltage devices that produce lightning can also produce x-rays.
Also, you will notice that digital watches will freak out when very close to a tesla coil, jacobs ladder or other high voltage source... I wouldn't want to risk anything that could be harmed by the low level output of a cellular phone by placing it near a high level output of a tesla coil.
--Lovecraft, mad scientist
WDW John
Member
I can vouch for that. I didn't realize that there was a Tesla coil in there but my friend, his son and I were doing basically the same thing accept that we were using a piece of aluminum foil (we had just re-heated some pizza!) and were holding our fingers close to the corner of the foil. We absolutely could see the spark jumping across, and, if we held our finger there long enough could smell the skin burning and see the little black marks. I thought it was kinda neat.
Thanks for the info.
Thanks for the info.