Orange County Register - Southern California still a growing tourist area

[Darkbeer1]

So we have been talking about the LA Times very biased Hit Piece, it is nice to set an article discussion facts and figures in a fair way.

This article appeared in Sunday's print edition of the OC Register and other papers in the Southern California News Group. I can only quote a couple of highlights, so make sure to read the entire article.

http://www.ocregister.com/2017/10/06/southern-california-still-a-growing-tourist-trap/

>>Long Beach Airport had the biggest percentage gain in the area: Its 2.2 million passengers were up 43 percent in a year.

The only Southern California travel decline was at Orange County’s John Wayne Airport, as its 5.9 million passengers were off 1.8 percent vs. 2016.<<

>>
Here’s how local markets have fared, year-to-date through August vs. 2016’s results for the same period for average room rates and occupancy, according to CBRE Hotels data …

Los Angeles: Averaged $211 a night, up $1 in a year; 84 percent full vs. 85.4 percent a year ago.

Orange County: $191 — up $5; 81.1 percent full vs. 81.9 percent.

Western Inland Empire: $118 — up $6; 78.9 percent full, flat vs. 2016.

Palm Springs: $195 — up $5; 66.6 percent full vs. 65.4 percent.

San Diego: $194 — up $7; 83.3 percent full vs. 82 percent.

A strong tourism rebound from the recession has gotten hotel developers busy.

Atlas Hospitality reported that in 2017’s first half, 10 hotels opened in Los Angeles with 2,527 rooms total; three opened in both Orange County (461 rooms) and Inland Empire (411 rooms), and two in San Diego (433 rooms.)

And Atlas says developers have filed plans in the five-county area to build 410 more hotels with 67,805 rooms — though nowhere near all will be built any year soon.<<

>>In the five-county area, leisure and hospitality bosses employed 1.07 million in the first quarter, up 30,500 or 2.9 percent in a year, federal jobs figures show. This job category includes workers at theme parks and other local attractions as well as staffs at restaurants, both fast-food and sit-down eateries.

In the five-county area, leisure and hospitality bosses employed 1.07 million in the first quarter, up 30,500 or 2.9 percent in a year, federal jobs figures show. This job category includes workers at theme parks and other local attractions as well as staffs at restaurants, both fast-food and sit-down eateries.

Orange County: 211,200 jobs, up 2.1 percent; pay $499 a week, up 8.7 percent.<<

So good to see the positive numbers, even if some Disneyland fans are holding off visiting the area until Galaxy edge opens up, whenever that may be.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

"Southern California hotels appeared to be struggling with a growing supply of empty rooms this summer. In August, for example, all five local markets tracked by CBRE Hotels had dips in occupancy rates vs. a year ago, while room rates fell in Los Angeles and Orange County compared with 2016.

Local hotel owners have added competition this year amid an industry building surge. Additionally, hotels may be paying a price for increasing room rates and making visitors rethink their lodging plans."

Haha... ya think?

Interesting information. I wish the article had gone one step further and weighed the Southern California market data against the rest of the State. I'm curious to see how other tourist destinations like Yosemite, Napa/Sonoma, Monterey, San Francisco, Tahoe, etc compare.

 

[Travel Junkie]

I would hardly call the L.A. Times article a biased hit piece. There are legitimate questions raised in it.

The tourism bump has been noticeable, but I wondered about the surge in new hotel construction and how it would affect the market. This provides a good snapshot.

I believe a key going forward is how international tourism is affected by the current administration. A lot of the California tourism growth is from China. We've already seen California trying to distance themselves from Washington and a big part of that is because they want to appeal to international tourist dollars.

 

[TP2000]

Thank you @Darkbeer1! That LA Times ridiculously slanted article was laughable, but nice to see there are still so-called journalists out there who see the big picture and how profitable private industry factors in to the health and prosperity of our communities.

What I always find interesting is the tired late 20th century mantra that Disneyland is a "locals" park while WDW is a tourist magnet. WDW is definitely still a tourist magnet, but is increasingly going after the local Floridian market to boost attendance.

Meanwhile, Disneyland in the last 10 years has seen a huge increase in domestic and international tourists. The dramatic increase in new hotels and major remakes of existing hotels in the Anaheim Resort District is proof of that; something like 5,000 new hotel rooms built in the last few years with several thousand under construction or on the drawing boards through the end of this decade. There are now almost 25,000 hotel rooms within the compact Anaheim Resort District, and they are seeing vacancy rates and pricing growth that would be the envy of most other cities in America. You don't get 25,000 hotel rooms within a one-mile radius of Disneyland if you are just a little "locals" park.

 

[TP2000]

I believe a key going forward is how international tourism is affected by the current administration. A lot of the California tourism growth is from China. We've already seen California trying to distance themselves from Washington and a big part of that is because they want to appeal to international tourist dollars.

Currently the State Department has severely limited the ability to gain a Tourist Visa from citizens of the following high-risk countries: Iran, Libya, Somalia, Syria, North Korea, Chad, Yemen, and Venezuela. I can't imagine that's going to be a huge hit on the SoCal tourist economy.

The Chinese, meanwhile, continue to pour off of planes at LAX and SFO daily. Not to mention the Aussies, Taiwanese, Kiwis, South Koreans, Japanese and any number of affluent visitors from Southeast Asian countries. Interestingly, the data from the last few years showed that a huge chunk of foreign tourists to SoCal also came from the major European countries like France, UK, Germany.

My casual observations this past summer at Disneyland showed that to be true, with quite a few Francophones and Germans chatting in the queues around me. (You can also spot them by their funny casual attire! Europeans always dress up better than us Americans, but when they dress down for a theme park day they don't quite get it. Hee hee!)

 

[Deleted member 107043]

Thank you @Darkbeer1! That LA Times ridiculously slanted article was laughable, but nice to see there are still so-called journalists out there who see the big picture and how profitable private industry factors in to the health and prosperity of our communities.

What I always find interesting is the tired late 20th century mantra that Disneyland is a "locals" park while WDW is a tourist magnet. WDW is definitely still a tourist magnet, but is increasingly going after the local Floridian market to boost attendance.

Meanwhile, Disneyland in the last 10 years has seen a huge increase in domestic and international tourists. The dramatic increase in new hotels and major remakes of existing hotels in the Anaheim Resort District is proof of that; something like 5,000 new hotel rooms built in the last few years with several thousand under construction or on the drawing boards through the end of this decade. There are now almost 25,000 hotel rooms within the compact Anaheim Resort District, and they are seeing vacancy rates and pricing growth that would be the envy of most other cities in America. You don't get 25,000 hotel rooms within a one-mile radius of Disneyland if you are just a little "locals" park.

Then tell me why locals consistently downplay tourists and keep saying that DLR's attendance is overwhelmingly made up of local visitors? Not saying that DLR/OC isn't a major destination for tourists, but it's hard to know the facts when there are so many biased and contradictory opinions in the online community and little data.

 

[Darkbeer1]

I would hardly call the L.A. Times article a biased hit piece. There are legitimate questions raised in it.

Have you read the LA Times thread recently?

https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads...aying-its-fair-share-in-anaheim.933818/page-8

I was involved in some of the behind the scenes research, and I know things that were left off intentionally.

The piece was requested by a group of folks, with the main players being the UNITE Here union, and the Democrats/Liberals who are already planning for the 2018 elections, and trying to keep the current "Tait/Moreno" alliance in charge on the Anaheim City Council.

And many folks that got interviewed, and never made the paper agreed. I know the list I provided was cherry picked.

http://www.anaheimblog.net/2017/09/23/the-myth-of-the-anti-disney-anti-resort-backlash/

http://www.anaheimblog.net/2017/09/25/dear-los-angeles-times-yes-disney-pay-fair-share-anaheim/

http://www.anaheimblog.net/2017/09/25/dear-los-angeles-times-yes-disney-pay-fair-share-anaheim/

http://www.anaheimblog.net/2017/10/02/la-times-disney-anaheim-sins-of-omission/

http://www.anaheimblog.net/2017/10/...-times-is-disney-paying-its-share-in-anaheim/

So while we got a set of articles, what we really got was a set of opinion pieces to make you decide in a specific way.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

I'm kind of amused that people are going out of their way to defend Disney when it's so obvious that it behaved badly with the aid of city officials, yet in other discussions Eisner was basically the Devil and Iger is destroying the company.

 

[TP2000]

Also addressed in that OC Register article is the issue of labor automation.

I was chatting with someone recently who had just retired from a long executive career in the hotel business. He told me the industry is actively pursuing automation for housekeeping, food service and bell desk functions. The more white collar front desk is already seeing sweeping automation with smartphone based self-check-in and check-out tools. Westin already is rolling out robots to deliver room service meals and run errands at their hotels. There's a giant wave of robotic automation coming to the hotel industry in the 2020's.

And yet Hotel unions like Unite HERE continue a very aggressive and adversarial approach to the hotels they work for, making the business difficult for companies trying to run profitable hotels. A robot that can deliver breakfast to your room and then clean it and change the sheets will never call sick, never complain to HR, and never require a dental and medical plan.

Nor will those robots ever go on strike and beat pots and pans at 6AM on Disneyland Drive just to upset the paying customers like Unite HERE did during their last contract negotiation with Disney a few years ago.

Good morning! You silly tourists didn't want to sleep in on vacation, did you?!?

It's surprising how loud a metal spoon banging against a metal pot can be at 6AM. This is a Disneyland Cast Member doing this, by the way.

And yet, there's a giant wave growing on the horizon that can replace these low-skilled workers with robotics and digital automation over the next 5 to 10 years. This Westin employee will NEVER go out in front of his hotel at dawn and beat a metal pot to annoy his customers and his employer.

 

[TP2000]

Then tell me why locals consistently downplay tourists and keep saying that DLR's attendance is overwhelmingly made up of local visitors? Not saying that DLR/OC isn't a major destination for tourists, but it's hard to know the facts when there are so many biased and contradictory opinions in the online community and little data.

It's just an old way of thinking left over from the 20th century. You don't build 25,000 hotel rooms for Annual Passholders driving in for a few hours from Corona.

 

[TP2000]

I'm kind of amused that people are going out of their way to defend Disney when it's so obvious that it behaved badly with the aid of city officials, yet in other discussions Eisner was basically the Devil and Iger is destroying the company.

Very valid point, Hans! Disney fans can't have it both ways.

But that reminds me that the "bad behavior" with city officials seems to boil down to two things; that stupid parking structure deal from 1995, and... what else was there? The boozy boys club Catalina trips in the 1960's?

 

[Darkbeer1]

Then tell me why locals consistently downplay tourists and keep saying that DLR's attendance is overwhelmingly made up of local visitors? Not saying that DLR/OC isn't a major destination for tourists, but it's hard to know the facts when there are so many biased and contradictory opinions in the online community and little data.

Well, historically the largest group of visitors have been locals (described as a same day drive) to the parks.

Disney tried to get a shift in the numbers with DCA version 1.0 and failed. The tourist percentage didn't change, even with the stopping of AP sales for a bit.

Over the last few years, Disney has found a better formula, but still not happy with the tourist percentage. The idea to have the park busy every day of the year has worked with more special events, and expanding things like the Christmas and Halloween periods. Disney did luck out with the changing school calendars that expand Christmas Break and Thanksgiving break, plus the shift away from Easter Sunday to expand the Spring Break crowds, The Convention Center and local sports venues has also helped by hosting more major events every year, The AP program has been modified to try and shift locals to less busy times, and even tourist with pricing options, and special sales in slower periods. Also, the money spent to make DCA 2,0 paid off in increased attendance, even with increased competition from Universal, Knott's and Magic Mountain. Universal's big attendance has been tourists, and has been morphing into more of a locals park. Knott's and SFMM have been locals hangout due to marketing strategies, but still both get a healthy amount of tourists a year in its attendance numbers.

Yes, the parks don't like to share its internal numbers, and some here participate but have signed non-disclosure agreements, so can't give specifics.

I remember doing it over 10 years in an infamous fight with "Marcie", who was claiming I didn't know what I was talking about. So I gave "her" some very specific numbers from Disney and other parks. and she really couldn't figure out how to respond. Basically came back and said I couldn't prove those numbers. But some kind CM's came to my rescue and stated I was spot on with the figures,

So they are out there. Also, another key figure is amount spent on each visit in overall purchases, including admission, food, drink, merchandise and up chargers like tours, and now the MaxPass. And that number is much higher from a tourist than a local.

One program I found out made money is the meal programs that Universal, Six Flags and Cedar Fair offer. The profit is not in the food, but in opening up the wallet of the guest, who is now ready to spend more on merchandise and up-chargers like front of the line passes,

 

[Darkbeer1]

I'm kind of amused that people are going out of their way to defend Disney when it's so obvious that it behaved badly with the aid of city officials, yet in other discussions Eisner was basically the Devil and Iger is destroying the company.

I will agree Disney, just like other current companies like Amazon, Tesla and other car manufactures, all large employers, try and get the most possible.

Disney bought the Wrather Company from many reasons back in the 1990's. Yes getting the name rights for the Hotels back was important, but getting the Queen Mary and property in Long Beach was a great tool to have a "bidding war" between Long Beach and Anaheim. Heck, many sports teams have done it, as had many companies. Boeing recently did it to the State of Washington.

So did Disney "Outwit" the leaders of the city of Anaheim, that is a matter of opinion, but the city got a LOT out of the deal. Disney's tax revenues helped build the Convention Center 50 years ago, Anaheim (now Angel) Stadium in 1964, Anaheim Arena in 1993 (now the Honda Center). The deal for the New Disneyland Resort gave the City the money to get a large expansion of the Convention Center, the vast Improvements to the newly formed Resort District, and a large increase in tax revenue from sales taxes and the TOT, plus more non-Disney businesses coming into the area, hiring more folks.

Back when the deal was signed, it was agreeable to both Disney and the city.

I wouldn't say that Disney behaved badly, they made smart business decisions and offered a deal everyone loved (well, most folks, a few Anaheim residents didn't want any expansion).

 

[Darkbeer1]

My biggest complaint right now is the current City Council, or at least part of it, aka Mayor Tait and his sidekick, Councilmember Moreno.

They have become so ant-Disney, anti-Business that they have fired senior City Staff that agreed that targeted Tax Breaks are needed. and that Businesses need to expand and grow to bring in additional revenue. There is a classic city council meeting earlier this year, where late at night, a sales tax break, similar to what other nearby cities offer, was up for discussion. The Mayor wanted to end the program, but there was an issue about grandfathering and should a specific dealership be still eligible under the old rules. The discussion was with city staff, and the Mayor wasn't 100% thinking about what he was staying and referring to the staff report, at first saying it agreed with him, but when it was pointed out that the city staff wanted the program to continue, he got upset, and the discussion fell to one of the staff members, who tried to word his answer in a diplomatic way, but basically admitting the report was written following the Mayor's wishes, and not a truly independent report. He also said that since the other cities were offering it, the city should do the same to compete.

So the city is in such a mess, that can't even be honest to the entire city council and its residents. And Dr. Moreno is an expect in getting reports to reflect "his" point of view. My wife got really upset at one meeting, where Dr. Moreno referred to "his" city. It is always about Dr. Moreno. Recently, the Mayor forced him to agree with Operation Home SAFE, and you could tell during the discussion. Well, at the end of the meeting, each councilmember can say a few things, like don't forget about the new park opening, or adjourning in honor of the hurricane victims. The mayor asked for extremely short comments due to the late hour, and everyone was following the request until it was Dr, Moreno's turn, who took 5 minutes (I timed it using the video replay, which has a clock on the control bar), it seemed he added more stuff just to show how ed he was at everyone, including the Mayor.

That is the city council and city staff I have to deal with on a regular basis. (I have a specific e-mail account I use for my government work, and it has been very busy lately).

 

[Travel Junkie]

Currently the State Department has severely limited the ability to gain a Tourist Visa from citizens of the following high-risk countries: Iran, Libya, Somalia, Syria, North Korea, Chad, Yemen, and Venezuela. I can't imagine that's going to be a huge hit on the SoCal tourist economy.

The Chinese, meanwhile, continue to pour off of planes at LAX and SFO daily. Not to mention the Aussies, Taiwanese, Kiwis, South Koreans, Japanese and any number of affluent visitors from Southeast Asian countries. Interestingly, the data from the last few years showed that a huge chunk of foreign tourists to SoCal also came from the major European countries like France, UK, Germany.

My casual observations this past summer at Disneyland showed that to be true, with quite a few Francophones and Germans chatting in the queues around me. (You can also spot them by their funny casual attire! Europeans always dress up better than us Americans, but when they dress down for a theme park day they don't quite get it. Hee hee!)

Two quotes from this article.

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/travel/tourism-u-s-has-been-decline-trump-took-office-n764206

"Travel to the United States has dropped as much as 16 percent in the months since President Donald Trump took office — and there's no sign of recovery, according to a new study."

"California, in particular Los Angeles and San Diego, saw the biggest decrease in international visitors. "

If you hadn't noticed the intentional community is not to happy with the current direction of U.S. politics and are voting with their pocket book. I was in China a few months ago and the local media there is flabbergasted by U.S. diplomacy and convinced they are trying to start a war. They believe they have to be the voice of reason and diplomacy between two mad men (Trump and Un.) Whether you think it is true or not, that is the perception in China and the result has been and will continue to be the U.S. is a less desirable location to visit. It won't stop it, but the numbers have proved it has had an affect on all visitors. It's not wise to think that travel will only be affected in the countries directly targeted by the travel ban.

 

[Darkbeer1]

Two quotes from this article.

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/travel/tourism-u-s-has-been-decline-trump-took-office-n764206

"Travel to the United States has dropped as much as 16 percent in the months since President Donald Trump took office — and there's no sign of recovery, according to a new study."

"California, in particular Los Angeles and San Diego, saw the biggest decrease in international visitors. "

.

And of course, this quote..

>>While the strength of the U.S. dollar may be having causing some foreign visitors to decide to vacation elsewhere<<

Have you followed European politics, where there is a large shakeup. There was an article this week discussing a large amount of Polish Catholics praying on is borders asking God to stop the influx of immigrants

.http://www.ocregister.com/2017/05/1...-industry-puts-out-international-welcome-mat/

>>Locally, some 4.4 million international tourists visited Orange County in 2016. These visitors spend more money than others, partially because they stay longer and spend more as they shop here.

Overall, 48.2 million tourists came to the county, up 2 percent from the year before, and contributed $12.1 billion to the local economy, up 6.8 percent from 2015. The industry is responsible for 164,000 jobs.<<

This is looking at June 2017 numbers...

https://industry.visitcalifornia.com/Research/Report/California-Airport-Passenger-Traffic-June-2017

>>Domestic airport traffic increased 4.7 percent and international traffic grew 10.2 percent year-over-year. <<

A 10% Growth as compared to 2017. Actual numbers (head counts), I trust it a lot more than the Foursquare report.

 

[Travel Junkie]

Have you read the LA Times thread recently?

I have. The Times articles do not dispute the fact it has been a mutually beneficial relationship. However, it's not disputable that Disney has tried to keep the council packed with pro-Disney members and there is nothing wrong with that. They should do that. It is an interesting factoid that currently they do not and for the first time possibly ever they don't have a rubber stamp.

The rebuttals also choose to cherry pick facts. Would Disney have not built DCA and DTD if Anaheim did not pay for the structure? If Disney would have done exactly the same thing, then you have to wonder if Anaheim made a bad deal in that instance. That's not being anti-Disney, that is being logical. If Disney would have scrapped their expansion plans or cut them back significantly, then it was a good call for Anaheim to help out as it helps them as well. I have not seen any evidence that Disney would have scrapped expansion plans if Anaheim didn't pay for the structure.

I could argue that the Times let Disney off easy. They alluded to the homeless and low income problem, but did not go after Disney for its role in depressing wages in the city. As they employee so many people in the area, they are a catalyst in setting wages. It is well known that a large number of their employees are at or below the poverty line.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

But that reminds me that the "bad behavior" with city officials seems to boil down to two things; that stupid parking structure deal from 1995, and... what else was there? The boozy boys club Catalina trips in the 1960's?

That behavior was perfectly legal until it wasn't, which is the only reason why it stopped. Since then Disney has found other ways to get what it wants, mainly by stuffing the campaign coffers of the Anaheim candidates it wants to do its bidding. The outcome, as documented in the article, benefited the company far more than it did local residents. Again, not illegal behavior, but certainly not the actions one would immediately expect from a warm and fuzzy family friendly corporate brand.

 

[Travel Junkie]

And of course, this quote..

>>While the strength of the U.S. dollar may be having causing some foreign visitors to decide to vacation elsewhere<<

Have you followed European politics, where there is a large shakeup. There was an article this week discussing a large amount of Polish Catholics praying on is borders asking God to stop the influx of immigrants

I am fully aware of European politics right now and travel their often to witness it first hand. If you don't understand that current U.S. policies are having a negative affect on the way the world views us, then I'm not sure what else to say.

 

[Darkbeer1]

The rebuttals also choose to cherry pick facts. Would Disney have not built DCA and DTD if Anaheim did not pay for the structure? If Disney would have done exactly the same thing, then you have to wonder if Anaheim made a bad deal in that instance. That's not being anti-Disney, that is being logical. If Disney would have scrapped their expansion plans or cut them back significantly, then it was a good call for Anaheim to help out as it helps them as well. I have not seen any evidence that Disney would have scrapped expansion plans if Anaheim didn't pay for the structure.

I could argue that the Times let Disney off easy. They alluded to the homeless and low income problem, but did not go after Disney for its role in depressing wages in the city. As they employee so many people in the area, they are a catalyst in setting wages. It is well known that a large number of their employees are at or below the poverty line.

Once again, the city of Anaheim was in a bidding war for the second park and expansion with the city of Long Beach. While we will never know all that Long Beach offered, it was quite a lot, including more land as a gift from the city, and improvements to the area including street improvements, and tax rebates. So the city of Anaheim came up with the parking structure as a main perk for expanding in Anaheim instead.

http://articles.latimes.com/1996-10-09/news/mn-52109_1_disneyland-expansion

>>The new Disney development supersedes a splashy $3-billion resort the company proposed for the same site in 1991 but abandoned last year as too ambitious. This summer, the company unveiled its plan for a smaller attraction. It includes a 55-acre theme park called Disney's California Adventure, a 750-room luxury hotel and a 200,000-square-foot shopping, dining and entertainment complex called Disneyland Center.

In all, $450 million of city money will be invested in improvements to the city's tourism area. This includes street improvements, landscaping, utilities and a $90-million parking garage to be used mostly by visitors to the new theme park and, on a limited basis, by Convention Center visitors. The other $96 million will come from existing state, federal and regional transportation funds.

The city plans to issue $395 million worth of bonds to finance much of the work. Increased revenue from hotel and sales taxes from tourists and property tax revenue generated within the Disneyland Resort area is expected to pay off the bonds. In case of a shortfall in revenue, Disney has guaranteed the bond debt, agreeing to step in and pay investors if the city can't.

City officials insist that the project will not burden city taxpayers and in the end will strengthen the city economically.<<

As for service wages, including theme parks, the original article shows wages went up 8.7 percent in the last year. And the average Disneyland CM makes more due to being in an union and getting benefits.

The poverty level has changed over the last few decades, from truly being poor to now being "not middle class". A lot of additional taxes and fees are collected by the government than a few decades ago.