movie 'thread drift' stuff.....star wars, superman, etc.

[rael ramone]

Star Wars:

Recently saw the 'Empire of Dreams' doc again. Seeing that helps explain why the original trilogy is far superior. (esp. good is Fords description of how Lucas is poor at directing the craft of acting 'it's there [on the page], do it'.

Superman (78, 81, and 'Donner cut').

Saw docs for those as well. What you look at everything that an actor brings to a character and it's development, Christopher Reeve as Superman/Clark Kent is, IMHO, one of the best performances that I've seen in cinema. The 'role within a role' that Clark is to Superman. And how he just 'sells' being able to fly by his movements (Donner and/or Mankewitz mentioned his being a pilot helped with that).

As far as 2, both Lester and Donners cuts are both worth viewing.

3. Well, I like it...

"That picture is fuzzy"

"The picture is fine, chief. She looks like that in real life".

4. 'Nuclearman' flying into space with Mariel Hemingway.....

Returns. Superman becomes 'Emo-man' (and a stalker to boot). I'd rather watch Nuclearman fly into space with Mariel Hemingway...

Never say 'Man of Collateral Damage' and have no intention to.

 

[StarWarsGirl]

Did somebody say Star Wars????

 

[rael ramone]

Did somebody say Star Wars????

ok.... more star wars....

While I more or less enjoy watching the prequels, they have their issues...

TPM - jar-jar. 'yippee'. anakin creating a protocol droid 'to help mom'. the biggest problem would have to be the fact that there was locked in to have 3 stories, and they wasted one on 'baby anakin'. more on that later.

AOTC - i think the script got noticably worse. 'stressful times', huh senator organa? 'warm feelings to my heart', huh yoda? (i won't quote the amidala/anakin wordplay, it will make my head hurt). And a big dramatic moment (emergency powers for the chancellor) was killed with Jar Jar doing it...

ROTS- 'Noooooo!'. Palpatine cheering during the anakin/dooku battle. some CGI during the obi-wan/anakin battle taking you right out. And why only a 'cameo' by Grand Moff Tarkin? In the original SW, he clearly was Vaders superior.

Anakin - even in sci-fi/fantasy, there has to be some plausibility to make the story, even within it's own set of rules, somewhat believable. So even 'a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away', it is in no way realistic that Anakin, in the way he was written, directed, and acted by hayden, would have anyone in his life that would want anything to do with him. Delusional, petulant, and prone to violence... After he killed all those sandpeople on Tatooine, Amidala should have sought out the 'Old Republic' version of a restraining order.

Clone Wars / Dooku / Palpatine - The first movie should have combined the first two stories (with a Luke aged Anakin). The Clone Wars needed to be the 2nd story, and not just because of the action. First off, Dooku was wasted (both as a character and as a great actor in Christopher Lee) by having so little screen time. Second, Palpatine needed more character development. in ROTS, the Jedi sensed 'dark stuff' around the chancellor. How palpatine got from the end of AOTC to there needed to be on the screen.

CGI - heavily overused. Fire looked fake. Yoda looked fake (Battle scenes there was no choice - and I liked him in them - but outside of that he should have been a puppet). Filmmakers who want to use CGI should be made to watch the first two Jurassic Park films... Chewbacca's planet looked like exactly what it was - et overloaded with CGI. (makes me want to pop in The Man with the Golden Gun - makes far, far better use of both the location and Christopher Lee)...

 

[ChevisMickey]

I'm a fan of animation and special effects, from A Trip to the Moon to some of this summer's CGI blockbusters. Bad stop motion to bad CGI can be saved by an entertaining story that takes into account that it is bad. Good stop motion to good CGI can be ruined by a bad story. I love to watch the Ray Harryhausen effects laden films, yet hate to watch CGI effects done poorly like with Green Lantern.
CGI, blue screens, green screens, and even stop motion are all appropriate, and usually well done, in all of the Star Wars films. I too prefer puppets or sets or costumes when they can be done well over any other effect. I like watching the SW prequels for the effects in most of the movies, a few of the characters, but not for the dialog.
Some movies that are dependent on effects do well with focusing on the story and letting the effects enhance, even when cheesy, the story. That is why the Reeves' Superman films hold up so well. I felt the Man of Steel started with a really heavy story and then fell victim to its effects for the second half of the movie.
Jurassic Park combined the different effects well, most of the time (although the intro to the dinosaurs while they are in their jeeps at the beginning always bothers me). The scenes with the T Rex and/or the Raptors are classics.
The only, yes only, movie I've seen in 3d AND IMAX is The Hobbit. I probably would have liked many other movies in this format, however the LotR movies gave me a very good idea of what to expect from The Hobbit, and I was not disappointed.

 

[rael ramone]

Did somebody say Star Wars????

OK, just finished watching the Prequels again (and the original Ep. 4 - will save comments on that until I've rewatched 5 & 6).

Short version:

TPM > AOTC > ROTS

Long version:

TPM - This is supposed to be the 'worst' one because of Jar Jar Overload, Baby Anakin, etc. But it has the best story (and it is a good story). The introduction to Qui Gon & Obi Wan is great. Most of the time on Naboo is good (esp. the underwater city). Anakin is believeable as a likeable character, and I like the interaction between Padme & Qui Gon. Pod Race is pretty good. And nothing needs to be defended about Darth Maul.

Jar Jar didn't need to be removed from the picture, but once he met the Gungan's in their underwater city he no longer was necessary as a character and should have 'stayed in the handcuffs'. C3P0's introduction as a 'domestic servant' is horrible. The whole Gungan battle on Naboo (the only part on the planet I didn't like) deserved to be on the cutting room floor.

AOTC - Obi Wan playing a 'detective' was mostly good. Loved the librarian in the Jedi Archives. And Yoda teaching the younglings. (Basically you've got a high quality science fiction television show if you just watch the Obi-Wan storyline). LOVED LOVED LOVED Christopher Lee as Dooku, esp. him on that first takedown of a charging Anakin. But a decent story overall. (And might have the best score).

Didn't like the plot hole of the secret clone army not really being explained. Padme went from a believeable child queen in TPM to a braindead young adult courting a sociopath. And what was so likeable about Anakin that his obvious antisocial tendencies could be overlooked? Certainly wasn't anything that came out of his mouth. Dialog got progressively worse overall. Using a big dramatic moment for Jar-Jar killed the moment.

ROTS - Best thing was the Sidious / Yoda battle. Obi-Wan / Anakin was good until they started surfing the lava. Anakin was ever so slightly more likeable at the beginning of the film (but barely).

The first two films were designed to 'get on base', with ROTS acting as the cleanup hitter - and it failed - miserably. Too much story / character development was left out. Dooku was wasted. Didn't care for Chewy's home planet. Dialog was AOTC bad... Palpatines change between 2 & 3 needed to be seen.

I said in the other post that 1 & 2 should be combined. I take that back. The missing pieces were between 2 & 3, and those films (mostly 3) should have filled them in... TPM is a good stand alone film (athough with flaws).

 

[rael ramone]

Last post here unless someone wants to add to it...

Finished 4, 5, and 6. The next paragraph I'll mention all the flaws worth mentioning that aren't related to the 'special editions':

In 6 Boba Fett went out like a punk.

That's it. All the other flaws have to to with the unnecessary special editions. So, so, many additions look fake compared to the original 'practical effects'. Others have a negative effect on the story (Jabba in 4, changing the Emperors lines in 5). And the musical # in 6 is beyond bad.

The story is far superior. Dialog, character development. Everything.

Lebeau (IIRC) mentioned in the Spirited Thread that the best way to watch the films is 4,5,1,2,3,6. If you are watching it a full film at a time, he is absolutely correct. But the best place in the narrative to watch 1,2 & 3 is after Luke visits Dagobah in 6 - the Leia is twin sister bit is best discovered in 6.

Vader is incredible in 5. The force power to both dispatch w/o being in the same room, and the ability to deflect a laser blast (many Jedi's were dispatched via blasters in 2 & 3). But he is clearly a supporting character (even though being the primary antagonist) in this trilogy. Luke is clearly the lead character.

Jedi gets a bad rap. Even though Han's character development stalls. The Ewoks are actually fun here. Seeing Luke grow as a jedi (first showing of the lightsaber in a battle vs blasters). Jabba good here. The Emperor good here. Vader and not the Emperor sensing Lukes presence. And the Rebellion falling into a trap, and still winning.

I don't know if Walt would have made these movie (or have someone make it with his name on it). But I suspect he'd really like watching them.

One more prequel trilogy theory: I suspect a reason for having a 'droid army' fight the Jedi is to cut down on the violence. Easier to get a PG cutting robots in half then lopping of limbs left and right...

Saw Superman 4 after it. Bad, bad, bad, bad, bad.... (but kinda fun to watch in a 'rubberneck' way). But far, far, superior to Returns...