It's like the worst deja vu ever. (Thousands in car repairs - again)

[MissM]

Oh guys, I'm having a very bad week.

It’s just so much I can’t even explain it all. But the horrible short version is that the Element’s air conditioning is completely wrong. I’d say, “again” but it seems like it was never fixed right the first THREE times we’ve done it. This has been going on for TWO YEARS now and still, it’s not right.

The extremely summed up version is that July 2010 we took our 2003 Honda Element to Ice Cold Air and replaced many parts to the tune of about a thousand dollars. But that didn’t fix it, so MORE parts were replaced to the tune of another six or so dollars. ($1,600 total) Still didn’t work.

Took it to a Honda dealership, was told that the “repairs” that were done were done incorrectly and the system was totally in shambles. There was shrapnel from the compressor everywhere and the whole thing – every part previously replaced AND more – needed to be redone. We fought and got some money back from them (few hundred, not enough) and took it to a Tires Plus to be fixed, what we thought was going to be correctly to the tune of about $2,200. I’m still paying it off. (Fun entries here then here and here and then again here just for a handful!)

This put us at about $4,000 total in bills.

(Every single one of these is an invoice for work done on the a/c system only. This gives you an idea of the nightmare I've had with this.)

So, that was the past two summers. And now, the a/c has been not working right again. I took it up to the Tires Plus yesterday with my mom and step-dad only because we wanted to see if it was a warranty repair, not because we wanted to go to them. They said we needed a radiator fan and a compressor fan to the tune of almost $600.

We declined and took it over to the Honda dealership to get another opinion. Things got worse from there. Remember thew whole shrapnel thing? Yeah, turns out, Tires Plus never actually fixed it. The whole system is clogged with metal shavings from the compressor. It’s preventing the compressor fan from turning on (hence the no cold air) but worse, it’s also preventing the radiator fan from turning on. You know, the thing that keeps the engine from overheating? Yeah, that.

The dealer wanted $900 just to make the car drivable and another $3-4k to fix it. They also said the value of the car is only $4k so they basically felt the car was scrap metal. Which is absurd. I pretty much spent the entire day yesterday breaking down crying because it was just so overwhelming.

Today, I'm taking it to someone I trust and he's going to at least fix the fans so we can drive it. (About $400-500) This will be going on my Mom's credit card since I don't have the money. (I'm 8 months post-op not even fully healed yet and still struggling to pay my medical bills, let alone major car repair bills!!) We'll figure out the a/c after the car is drivable but this is Florida and no a/c really isn't an option.

Seriously, the number of times I've dealt with this exact issue so far and how much money has been wasted is truly sickening. I'm in a bad place emotionally right now and I'm just not sure how much more I can take.

 

[NYwdwfan]

Oh my that's crazy! Taking a car to a mechanic is always so scary - there's no way to know if they fixed it right and unfortunately too many unscrupulous ones out there! So sorry you have to deal with this - definitely not the stress you need!

 

[Master Yoda]

I have often said that in this day and age having a good, trustworthy mechanic is as necessary as having a good doctor.

I spent many of my high school and college years working as an auto mechanic and I can confirm what your dealer is telling you. When an AC compressor fails it is possible to get metal shavings in the system. This requires the replacement on a number of other components (which will depend on the car and how the compressor failed) to do the job "correctly". "Correctly" being the key word. Many places, especially if it is some kind of warranty repair or they do not want to hit you with sticker shock, will just replace the compressor, recharge and go. This will work fine for a while but you will end up right where you are now.

Why you might not agree that your car is now scrap metal, the mechanic very well might be correct. I have seen numerous occasions were it would be less expensive to buy the same year make and model than to repair what you have. Crazy I know, but that is the harsh reality.

Have a quick look online and see what your can currently buy your car for. If it is equal or less than what the repairs are, then it is an option that I would seriously explore.

 

[MissM]

It would be over $10k to buy another same year. (They had a 2005 for $12k on the lot.) Not that we could anyway. We literally cannot afford a car payment right now. The Element is in great shape except for this a/c issue. We keep up with the routine maintenance on it. So it has 4 new tires, new battery, new window, we just replaced the seat covers, new brakes - it's got years and years in it still. It's also paid off completely. And when it comes down to it, for $2k in repairs, the car is worth more than that. If we put the $2k towards a different car instead, it would be a beater. The Element is a better car than we could ever get for $2k repair cost, you know? And, even so, if we just at least repairs the fans ($400-500) the car will be drivable. We can't get a car for that so that's what we're doing first, just to get it operable and then see from there.

The thing is, the entire system was supposedly fixed the last time. We paid for every component under the sun. Compressor, condenser, evaporator, motor fan assembly, blower, a resistor of some kind - I don't recall it all off the top of my head but it was an exhaustive list of parts. Which is why the second repair was $2,200. Which is why I'm so frustrated now. It's been less than a year and by all evidence, the work was just not done correctly last time. They most likely didn't actually clean the system which is why we now are out the radiator fan as well. But they won't acknowledge that and they won't stand by the work since we've put too many miles on it for them to consider it under warranty. (Love drives 40 minutes one-way for his job each day which is where the miles come into play.)

I'm just so disgusted. And, like everyone knows, my surgery left thousands in bills. So we're already seriously under major financial burdens right now. We've not only wiped out our savings, but we've gone much further in debt and I owe so many people for my medical bills. (Which I'm working on paying as much as I can but it's an uphill battle to put it mildly.) We're struggling so hard just to get our feet back under us and then...this? I'm just so over it. I'm so tired of all this financial panic and stress, you know?

 

[Nemo14]

Richard is right about this. I know you're not in great shape financially right now, but the fact is that even after spending all that money to fix the car, you're going to end up with a ton of debt and a 9-year-old car that may or may not have additional problems from this. If there is any way you can swing it, start looking into replacing it now.

 

[MissM]

Richard is right about this. I know you're not in great shape financially right now, but the fact is that even after spending all that money to fix the car, you're going to end up with a ton of debt and a 9-year-old car that may or may not have additional problems from this. If there is any way you can swing it, start looking into replacing it now.

There literally is no way. I'm not even remotely exaggerating. We absolutely cannot get another car right now. Neither of us can get a car loan (see, medical bills, no reportable income, etc.) and we cannot add another bill at all. We can't really even pay the ones we have. The credit card this repair will go on (my Mom's) is the same one we put it on before so I'm not adding another bill, just adding how time on how long it will take to pay it off. It's all I can do. We simply can't buy a new one.

The situation totally sucks. But it's very limited options so we're just trying to do the best we can.

 

[Master Yoda]

It would be over $10k to buy another same year. (They had a 2005 for $12k on the lot.) Not that we could anyway. We literally cannot afford a car payment right now. The Element is in great shape except for this a/c issue. We keep up with the routine maintenance on it. So it has 4 new tires, new battery, new window, we just replaced the seat covers, new brakes - it's got years and years in it still. It's also paid off completely. And when it comes down to it, for $2k in repairs, the car is worth more than that. If we put the $2k towards a different car instead, it would be a beater. The Element is a better car than we could ever get for $2k repair cost, you know? And, even so, if we just at least repairs the fans ($400-500) the car will be drivable. We can't get a car for that so that's what we're doing first, just to get it operable and then see from there.

The thing is, the entire system was supposedly fixed the last time. We paid for every component under the sun. Compressor, condenser, evaporator, motor fan assembly, blower, a resistor of some kind - I don't recall it all off the top of my head but it was an exhaustive list of parts. Which is why the second repair was $2,200. Which is why I'm so frustrated now. It's been less than a year and by all evidence, the work was just not done correctly last time. They most likely didn't actually clean the system which is why we now are out the radiator fan as well. But they won't acknowledge that and they won't stand by the work since we've put too many miles on it for them to consider it under warranty. (Love drives 40 minutes one-way for his job each day which is where the miles come into play.)

I'm just so disgusted. And, like everyone knows, my surgery left thousands in bills. So we're already seriously under major financial burdens right now. We've not only wiped out our savings, but we've gone much further in debt and I owe so many people for my medical bills. (Which I'm working on paying as much as I can but it's an uphill battle to put it mildly.) We're struggling so hard just to get our feet back under us and then...this? I'm just so over it. I'm so tired of all this financial panic and stress, you know?

If you can prove this, then there are ways to recover some if not all of your money. I believe you said it was Tire Kingdom that did this work. If that is the case and the individual shop will not work with you, contact their corporate office. If that proves to be a dead end then you will have to take them the court. If it goes that far I would attempt to recover far more than the actual bill as your time and incontinence are worth something. Another avenue to explore is your local news station. Every town seems to have one of those "on your side" reporters that deals with issues like this. From what I have seen, those guys tend to get very good results.

In regards to your radiator fan....it demises sounds like an unrelated problem. The radiator fan is simply an electric motor wired to a sensor that turns it off an on. While it is necessary to make the system work, it does not actually connect to the AC system. I could pour concrete into your AC system and your fan would not be harmed. The only way it would be related is if the mechanic physically broke or if and AC line exploded and damaged it. The reality is that they will just eventually die.

 

[MissM]

Richard, you're right. Apparently, Wayne said the radiator fan is just bad timing, not part of the problem with the A/C. (Though I guess the reverse is possible? You can burn out a compressor fan from a bad radiator or something as the system tries to stay cooled down?)

Just got back from dropping it off. Wayne is going to fix the radiator fan ('cause it's a requirement for car to run properly) and then look at what our options are to get the A/C going. Preferably without breaking the bank. He thinks he might be able to just patch the A/C system up and getting it running, buying us another 6 months - year of working A/C.

He says the A/C is a closed system so that even though there's shrapnel in the system, it's only going to STAY in the system and won't damage anything outside the system. Which means, if we flush it out but not replace everything, we *should* be able to have a/c again at least for awhile. Because what's going to happen? Just damage to the parts which are already damaged, so it's moot.

But, that's only a hope right now. He needs to inspect it and see what he can do first. He's going to try to get us going without breaking the bank.

My sister said I should get something in writing from Wayne and get an estimate in writing from the dealership yesterday and use that as my proof the job wasn't done properly from Tires Plus and file for small claims to get my money back. So I need to think about that too. I think it might have merit but I need to research further before deciding anything. And I need to see where we're at on THIS repair as well.

 

[BiggerTigger]

Don't forget to contact the Better Business Bureau, and contact the Attorney General's Office, they can assist in recovering some monies (sometimes). Also, If you put the repairs on a credit card, contact your company to let them know, they may be able to get some money back too.

 

[MissM]

Don't forget to contact the Better Business Bureau, and contact the Attorney General's Office, they can assist in recovering some monies (sometimes). Also, If you put the repairs on a credit card, contact your company to let them know, they may be able to get some money back too.

Good suggestions, thanks.

 

[MissM]

UPDATE!
Talked to Wayne. He checked first to make sure the radiator fan and compressor fan did in fact need to be replaced. (Didn’t want to just take someone’s word on it.) And they did, so he replaced those.
Then he checked out the a/c. Drained and flushed the system. Inspected it. Recharged it with freon. Working perfectly. Nice, cold air conditioning he said. Compressor looks fine. Quiet, not making any noises, working great. System doesn’t appear to have any damage, any leaks – nothing. It’s fine.

He said he thinks the fan dying is what caused us to be low on coolant. I guess as the fan doesn’t work, the pressure builds up and the system will release freon through an emergency valve of sorts. The only sign of any leak was right at that valve he said. The more the fan died, the more pressure built up, the more the system ejected coolant until we got to a point where it wasn’t blowing cold anymore.
He put dye in the system though so if it starts blowing warm at all again, he can see where any possible leak would be. But right now? Doesn’t see any signs of damage or leaking. In fact, he said he doesn’t even need to see the car back unless we have problems.

He changed the oil and looked over everything else in the car and said the car is mechanically sound. There’s nothing wrong with it. It’s in good shape he said and can’t find anything wrong with it.
Total for the two fans, a/c check, evac, flush, recharge, oil change and labor? Just shy of $700. A lot of money of course, but sure beats $900 for the fans and $3-4K for a complete a/c system the dealership told us. I’ll pick it up with Mom tomorrow.

This is why I like Wayne. We brought it in there with the expectation of needing to spend thousands of dollars. With the thought that the entire system was destroyed. He could have told us anything and we would have believed it. Instead? He replaced what was broken and flushed out the system and said we didn’t need to spend more than that. I appreciate when someone doesn’t take advantage of you and that’s rare in car mechanics.

 

[Nemo14]

That's great news - you're so fortunateto have an honest mechanic!

 

[Master Yoda]

That's great news - you're so fortunateto have an honest mechanic!

Ya beat me to it!

Good to hear everything worked out.

 

[flynnibus]

And when it comes down to it, for $2k in repairs, the car is worth more than that. If we put the $2k towards a different car instead, it would be a beater. The Element is a better car than we could ever get for $2k repair cost, you know?

'Worth' vs 'Replacement Cost' - they are very different concepts We have a 03 Odysessy and have had to deal with similar decisions around the value of the car. But we're probably going to run it into the ground for the same replacement cost vs worth discussion.

Unfortunately you are in the same 'worth vs replacement cost' issue if you were to be in an accident and insurance would total the car and only give you the worth, not the replacement cost.

I would certainly pursue that last Tires Plus place in small claims. If you have written inspections both prior and post their work, and you have specific work items they were supposed to fix and the post inspection shows they didn't do the work. Should be a slam dunk.

Small Claims only takes your time and very small court fees.

 

[ScoutN]

I have often said that in this day and age having a good, trustworthy mechanic is as necessary as having a good doctor.

This. This. This. THIS! I do most repairs on the vehicles at my house major and minor. When it is over my head we have a mechanic who doesn't charge bumped over the head prices. He also lets me in the shop to watch over what is being done so I can learn it.

Dealers, tire shops, quick lubes, etc are all the worst places ever to take a vehicle for repairs. Surfing forums for your model vehicle and the issue another great way to eliminate possible issues to keep from being blindsided. It sounds that these shops are not giving you quality compressors but charging you for them. You can find ac systems for you model vehicle online from totaled/blown engines vehicles.

I recently converted a track prepped vehicle of mine back to street. I did it for a very decent price by sourcing parts and having my mechanic do what I could not. I obtained an entire air-con system with compressor for under $200. Lines themselves new or at a shop would have ran over $1000 new or allowing a shop to get the parts for me. I saved over $1600 by sourcing my own parts for it and bought a new compressor of quality. I purchased an entire power steering from rack to pump bottle for $250 whilst new parts would have been in the $3000 range.

Point being repairs can be doable without breaking the bank. It all falls down to have a reputable independent mechanic. The word independent seems to scare some off but it is not always the case. If you look around you area I am positive you can locate a mechanic that defected from a dealer as a service manager. They, more times than not, are the best ones to go to and is what our mechanic is.

I actually just noticed you are in the Tampa area. My neighbor's daughter, son n law, grandkids live in that area. They find the best deals for great quality like no one I have ever seen. I know they have a trusted mechanic they swear by down there. I would be more than willing to inquire on the shop if you would like.

 

[NYwdwfan]

Glad to hear this is working out - you've had enough stress for one year!!!

 

[MissM]

I actually just noticed you are in the Tampa area. My neighbor's daughter, son n law, grandkids live in that area. They find the best deals for great quality like no one I have ever seen. I know they have a trusted mechanic they swear by down there. I would be more than willing to inquire on the shop if you would like.

Sure, you can PM me the info. I think we've (finally) found someone reputable now in Wayne. Just wish we knew him 2 years ago when this all started! But it doesn't hurt to have other good resources as well.

Glad to hear this is working out - you've had enough stress for one year!!!

Ain't that the truth!

I'll be picking it up tomorrow. Still having to charge $700 which sucks but getting the car back fully functioning and knowing that there's nothing wrong with it? Well worth the price.