Neither are DVC dues.
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Is my math correct?
- Thread starter captainkidd
- Start date
Neither are DVC dues.
Pioneer Hall
Well-Known Member
Please don't take this the wrong way, but it seems that you knew before creating this thread that DVC wouldn't work for you and you are just trying to prove that it doesn't. I know you have posed the question before, and always come to the same conclusion. There is no problem in the way you vacation now, and like most anyone will tell you DVC is not for everyone. I feel that it works for me, and others feel that it won't work for them. If there comes a time you think it works for you, then pull the trigger then.
Not at all. I'm always hoping someone can convince me there's a way to do it that WILL make sense. I hate spending $5,000 a year on resort reservations. And I've saved up enough for the initial purchase of DVC, but wouldn't be able to buy as many points as I would need.
It's actually kind of the opposite. I want someone to show me that I'm missing something just so I can justify taking the plunge to myself. I want to be a DVC member. I just can't understand why it works so well for some, but not for us.
- You're a family of 5
- You don't mind using moderate resort level accommodations
These 2 points work against you and keep the math from working out for you.
You also see the discounts such as AAA vs rack rate and figure that in your comparison. If you were able to do more apples to apples comparisons room-wise, and then factored in the long term value of DVC, you would see that the discount over the long term for DVC would be approximately 66-72% over the long term vs rack rate. (I've done the math many times). Even if Disney offered AAA rate each and every time, it would never approach that level of discount.
This is it exactly. We were in the same boat when we first looked at DVC 9-10 years ago. It also did not help that we do many short trips per year that always include a weekend stay. The numbers will never add up when you are not staying deluxe and are pretty much forced to book a minimum of a 1 bed room. We were told that almost verbatim by the DVC sales agent
Pioneer Hall
Well-Known Member
Not at all. I'm always hoping someone can convince me there's a way to do it that WILL make sense. I hate spending $5,000 a year on resort reservations. And I've saved up enough for the initial purchase of DVC, but wouldn't be able to buy as many points as I would need.
It's actually kind of the opposite. I want someone to show me that I'm missing something just so I can justify taking the plunge to myself. I want to be a DVC member. I just can't understand why it works so well for some, but not for us.
I think part of what I see as the issue is that you are looking somewhat short term basing things on prices now. DVC is an investment in future use and continued visits to Disney. While some sort of discount will likely be available, like others said it is not a guarantee. You need to think of the benefits of purchasing over the long term and not what the price difference will be on your next vacation or even 5 of them into the future. I keep an extensive spreadsheet of what my stays cost me in points vs what the price of that room would have been with the best possible discount. I don't compare it to rack rate because it seems ridiculous to when I know I wouldn't pay that normally. In the past 18 months as a member I have saved over $2,000 comparing apples to apples. Would I have "saved" more off property or in a non-deluxe resort...absolutely. However, call me a pixie duster, but I like the deluxe resorts and know that I want to stay in them when I visit. If I regularly stayed moderate, value, or off property then it wouldn't make financial sense to own. I think a big point for me too was that I did not finance my purchase. So the only costs I have to look at now are dues each year. Should I ever have a time where I feel that my finances might be stretched, I can rent my points for the year to cover my dues (and then some) and not have to worry about monthly payments just on the contract itself.
Blueliner
Well-Known Member
Viewpoint from a frequent WDW guest that gravitated toward Value/Moderate
We previously stayed almost exclusively at Pop Century, with occasional visits to Port Orleans and Caribbean Baech. We need 2 regular hotel rooms to fit our family.
After several years of researching and going back and forth, earlier this year we finally took the plunge and we bought 240 points (with 240 banked from previous year) at the Boardwalk. We closed in April and had our first stay at the Boardwalk as DVC members the week before Thanksgiving.
It is difficult to place a value on enjoyment, but I can tell you that I have absolutely no regrets about the purchase. This comes from someone that always thought of the hotel room simply as a place to crash late at night.
My wife and I were much more relaxed this trip, even in the parks. I think this is attributable to knowing we alread had pre-paid for the bulk of the lodging costs for our next 30 years of visits. Captainkidd, my guess is that if you make the DVC purchase, your mindset might shift in that direction instead of pondering what rates you could have gotten from AAA or Disney on regular rooms.
There was much less "hotel-room" fatigue associated with everyone tripping over each other and their respective belongings, and the kids really seemed to appreciate the extra breathing room associated with the central living area. We also were truly excited about knowing we were going to have the "deluxe" atmosphere on our future visits, even though we previously were of the value/moderate mindset.
Again, it's hard to place a value on this stuff, but you'll know it when you feel it.
Captainkidd, perhaps you should rent points for a future trip to see if the "vibe" you get from staying in a 1BR is something you would like to repeat as a DVC owner.
We previously stayed almost exclusively at Pop Century, with occasional visits to Port Orleans and Caribbean Baech. We need 2 regular hotel rooms to fit our family.
After several years of researching and going back and forth, earlier this year we finally took the plunge and we bought 240 points (with 240 banked from previous year) at the Boardwalk. We closed in April and had our first stay at the Boardwalk as DVC members the week before Thanksgiving.
It is difficult to place a value on enjoyment, but I can tell you that I have absolutely no regrets about the purchase. This comes from someone that always thought of the hotel room simply as a place to crash late at night.
My wife and I were much more relaxed this trip, even in the parks. I think this is attributable to knowing we alread had pre-paid for the bulk of the lodging costs for our next 30 years of visits. Captainkidd, my guess is that if you make the DVC purchase, your mindset might shift in that direction instead of pondering what rates you could have gotten from AAA or Disney on regular rooms.
There was much less "hotel-room" fatigue associated with everyone tripping over each other and their respective belongings, and the kids really seemed to appreciate the extra breathing room associated with the central living area. We also were truly excited about knowing we were going to have the "deluxe" atmosphere on our future visits, even though we previously were of the value/moderate mindset.
Again, it's hard to place a value on this stuff, but you'll know it when you feel it.
Captainkidd, perhaps you should rent points for a future trip to see if the "vibe" you get from staying in a 1BR is something you would like to repeat as a DVC owner.
I'm actually doing that in February at WL. I've rented twice before, but both times were in Studios.
I think another thing that is holding me back right now is, my wife and I are going to try for another baby (our 4th). Besides the accomidation issue, it would tie us up financially to buy in DVC for quite some time, and it'd be nice to know, God forbid we lose a job or something, that we're not tied down to a major expense.
Phonedave
Well-Known Member
Just to clarify a point a lot of people seem to miss.
DVC dues are not set at some arbitrary amount. Nor are they a way for DVC (or by extension Disney as whole) to make money.
By law, the dues can only cover the operating costs of the resort you own at. Those costs are things like housekeeping, landscaping, maintainance, etc. There is also a portion set aside (again, by law) for long term capital projects - a new roof, parking lot repaving, etc.
Your dues do NOT go towards the operating costs of the DVC company (the sales kiosks, sales agent salary, free ice cream, shuttle vans, etc). That comes out of the profit they make on the initial sale.
Your dues can also only go up a certain amount each year. There is a cap. DVC management must plan for furture capital maintainance and for emergencies as well. There is always the chance for a special assesment (for say hurricane damage) but that must follow a legal process.
Sure your dues will go up with inflation - salaries go up, supplies go up, taxes go up, etc. However your dues cannot arbitraraly rise because DVC wants to make more money.
Just something to remember.
-dave
...and resort room rack rates are under no such controls.
Blueliner
Well-Known Member
Completely understood. My family is firmly in 2BR territory, and 240 points equates to what I have estimated we will need for roughly 6-7 nights in a standard 2BR at the Boardwalk once a year.
When I ran my numbers (which did not account for the time value of money and were based on the assumption that annual DVC dues would increase at about the same rate as Disney hotel rates), the annual lodging costs came out to be roughly a break-even proposition between: a) annual BWV dues, plus the purchase price of the points (spread out evenly over the 31 years remaining at BWV); and b) staying in 2 rooms at Pop Century (assuming no discounts). The hardest part for me was letting go of that initial purchase price.
We are still very new to membership, but it does seem to me that, in the event of an emergency, you likely would be able to rent out your points to recover dues paid for that use year.
Yes, in two blocks. Started with 160 initial, and added 200 shortly after. While we know it doesn't work for everyone, it definitely save us money.
That's key. If you can pay up front, it's a no brainer.
Exactly what I wanted to word but did not have the time. I highly doubt a Vero Beach style even will occur at a WDW Resort any time soon. From my research it appears that event was a perfect storm of sorts for the AD to jump through the roof.
Pioneer Hall
Well-Known Member
However for the coming year there were some pretty sizable increases at the newer DVC resorts other than Aulani. AKL, BLT, and GCV all saw increases of over 8%. Makes one wonder if some of those problems they saw in Aulani pricing found there way into those resorts as well and this big jump is to adjust them accordingly. All I know is that I kind of wish I bought into Saratoga now as opposed to AKL.
Our 360 are all at SSR, and we'll be adding on again there next year! We've decided that even when it's just the 2 of us, we want to stay in a 1 bdr for the extra room. Eventually, we'll be taking the grandkids as well, and we'll want a 2 bdr for those trips.
dizzney
Member
You know you can never state that the oldest wouldnt go then, our oldest is a junior in college spent 8 nights at the BW in August and in annoyed that we are going in February with our 13 year old twins during Presidents week when he cant join us. We have 375 points and find that we use them in many and different ways, In August we had a total of 14 people visiting with us over a total of 9 nights, some stayed 2 others stayed 9, we used 2 bedroom, and studios (and dropped the two to a one bedroom for the last two nights); we're going again in February 8 nights in a BW View studio, and then we have the two night cruise out of New York in August for the 5 of us in two cabins,
Well worth my dues expenditure over the last two years!
And we do truly enjoy staying in the accomodatikns with kitchen/kitchentte and doing our laundry at no cost, in February we're doing carryon only for the four, between our Owners Locker and doing laundry we are set.
Its just how you decide you wnat to vacation
See, that's a huge part of it too. We like to vacation for 2 weeks in the summer. Well, I'd like to go for a week in the winter and 2 weeks in the summer, but my wife doesn't have that much time. Anyways, the 2 weeks would require just so many points for us, the buy-in cost would be crazy. It's sad, because over 10 years or so, we'll spend enough on the hotels that we could have bought the points we'd need, but I don't want to go 10 years without a vacation. Heck, I can't go 6 months without one.:hammer: