Is 2D really dead?

stitch131313

New Member
Original Poster
I know that this has been talked about before, but I want to put my opinion in. I just saw Brother Bear the other day and WOW! I don't know what Eisner is thinking. You can't get that beauty and emotion for 3D. I think that Pixar's films are very good but Brother Bear was powerful and emotional. It is still amazing that such power can come from drawings. I know that some of Disney's last animated films havn't been the greatest but that is no reason to close all but one of your animation studios. Just make your movies with heart and emotion. And again I know that this has been brought up before, but I'm just ranting.
 

Woody13

New Member
2D's Dead

If I make a mark in time, I can’t say the mark is mine.
I’m only the underline of the word.
Yes, I’m like him, just like you, I can’t tell you what to do.
Like everybody else I’m searching thru what I’ve heard.

Whoa, where do you go? when you don’t want no one to know?
Who told tomorrow 2D’s dead?

Oh Eisner won’t you paint my dream, won’t you show me where you’ve been?
Show me what I haven’t seen to ease my mind.
Cause I will learn to understand, if I have a helping hand.
I wouldn’t make another demand all my life.
 

Shaman

Well-Known Member
2D is as dead as Disney wants it to be...they have the power, the money, and the influence, to put some life into it...but for the sake of following the leader (because Disney is no longer the leader in animation) they choose to work ONLY on 3D...its rediculous...just my opinion though....
 

cloudboy

Well-Known Member
Well, Kikey is right in that medium is a little less important than the story.

But I think that that one statement, "The 2-D business is coming to an end, just like black and white came to an end." , more than any one thing, shows how unqualified, clueless, out of touch, and insincere Eisner is.

It is just plain insulting to the core values of Disney. All that comment does is show that Disney doesn't give a rat's bum about the quality of their product and is more interested in the financial results. Which is incredibly short sighted and in the long run totally destroys the image and power of the Disney name.

It shows that Eisner does not understand why people like their movies, and what people are interested in watching. It shows all he sees is a production system where the story line and quality of characters and art mean nothing, and he does not get that people are interested in that stuff.

He apparently fails to even see that there is a huge amount of animation - hand drawn - out there now. Much of it comes from Asia and has obtained a cult following the current Disney features could only dream about.

And finally, it shows that he has no interest in the true long term value of Disney. He is willing to cash it all in for his short remaining time there for his own benefit and destroy all the quality, talent, and value of the Disney name.

Rant, rant, rant...
 

FigmentJedi

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by General Grizz
Saying Eisner's an asshat is an understatement.


To quote Mikey Eisney










:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Idiot.
Found this poem at Jin Hill Media called "The Monkey Exec" by Peter Emslie:
There once was a time when its stories were magic,
But now there's a tale playing out that's quite tragic;
Catastrophe threatens the cinematheque,
As it's now in the hands of Monkey Exec.


"You artists all tell me Snow White is a classic,
But cel animation is downright Jurassic!
'Cause everyone knows that Snow is no Shrek;
And I HATE cartoons!" wails Monkey Exec.


The Monkey derides the artists as fools,
As his simian cronies collect up their tools;
"Your art is passé - we're going hi-tech!
Long live CG!" screams Monkey Exec.


From pencils to pixels the artists are forced;
Then once the film's finished, their jobs are outsourced.
"Don't come crying to me that your life's now a wreck;
Animate THIS!" gestures Monkey Exec.


From sequels to prequels to cheapquels and more,
The product beats NyQuil for making folks snore.
"I don't care what they feel after buying this dreck,
'Cause we've got their money!" gloats Monkey Exec.


The legacy's over, it's now become plain,
And the Monkey heads home with his ill-gotten gain;
Though the Studio's fortunes have all gone to heck,
"It's all about M.E." explains Monkey Exec.
Monkey%20Exec.jpg
 

Woody13

New Member
Let's put it another way. 2D is mono while 3D is Dolby 5.1! Do you get it now?:D

Mono has it's place but it is rarely used now (AM radio).
 

DisneyFan 2000

Well-Known Member
Well I saw BB a few days ago and IMO it's a classic! Just goes to show that the imagination isn't dead. The only thing that is dead here is Eisner's brain! :brick:
 

General Grizz

New Member
Originally posted by Woody13
Let's put it another way. 2D is mono while 3D is Dolby 5.1! Do you get it now?:D

Mono has it's place but it is rarely used now (AM radio).

This is about ART, not ENHANCEMENT. :brick:

If Disney had a good strategy instead of their crapload, cheap-buck mindset, 2-D would be flourishing right now.
 

cloudboy

Well-Known Member
Let's put it another way. 2D is mono while 3D is Dolby 5.1! Do you get it now?

Let me guess - you don't go to an art museum because those pictures are so unlifelike?

It's not about the realism - it's about an artform that enhances the story. Just as Mulan had a different look from Beauty and the Beast, or the idfferent segments in Fantasia had different looks depending upon the piece.

If you use a computer, that is fine. But it's animation - it's not supposed to be photorealistic. They are getting caught up in the wizardry of 3d recreation at the loss of artistic representation.
 

Woody13

New Member
As Marshall McLuhan said, "The Medium is the Message". 3D is a wonderful creative leap forward for the art of animation. If you fail to embrace this technology, you will be left with the same group of people that still buy vinyl records.
 

FigmentJedi

Well-Known Member
Traditional Animation is like the Pheonix, it seems to die at times, but it rises from the ashes. In the 80's, traditional animation was dying due to a creative clog. But it rose again. The Pheonix may be burning down now, but it will rise again, maybe not this year, but soon, maybe even after Chicken Little flops.
 

cloudboy

Well-Known Member
As Marshall McLuhan said, "The Medium is the Message".

So then hand drawn 2d animation itself IS a message, and completely throwing it all away is the same as throwing away the message!

There is a huge difference between technology and artistic expression. Don't you still use vinal for old songs? (really old - I am not talking 80's flashback here). It still gets used by DJ for it's special effects. Affectionados like it because of it's imperfections and characteristic white noise.

Perhaps people are afraid that it's one or the other. That is not the case - photos did not replace painting, color photography did not replace black and white. Just droping all the old 2D animation is throwing away an important art form.
 

Woody13

New Member
Originally posted by cloudboy
Perhaps people are afraid that it's one or the other. That is not the case - photos did not replace painting, color photography did not replace black and white. Just droping all the old 2D animation is throwing away an important art form.

Very valid points. Let me ask you, when was the last time you went down with your family to a local artist and had a family portrait (painting) made? Never? Why is that not hard to believe?

How many family photos have been taken? Too many to count, I bet.

What feature movies this year were made in black and white?

2D will still be used for storyboards but CGI now controls the finished product.

2D animation had a fine run. IMHO, if Walt was still in charge, he would have dumped 2D long ago in favor of CGI!
 

Woody13

New Member
Originally posted by General Grizz
I think Woody is purposely trying to make me hang myself. :D

Well, we'll need to construct a stretching room with a scrim in the CBJ.:animwink: Yeah, that's the ticket!:cool:
 

cloudboy

Well-Known Member
Very valid points. Let me ask you, when was the last time you went down with your family to a local artist and had a family portrait (painting) made?

My family? We don't even get together enough to have a familly photograph! But yes, that seems to be a rather popular thing again - I know a few places that do that. Most of them take the photo, and then do the painting from that. It costs a few hundred bucks, so I doubt I would ever do it, but if you had a familly that got along...

You are also talking about someone who doesn't get into movies so I could not tell you what came out last week, let alone last year. I can tell you that I have seen many bothe Black and White and Color photographs, however.

Do they only write and sing rock this year? Don't they still have classical music?
 

Woody13

New Member
Katzenberg and Jobs don't do 2D animation and I haven't seen any other studios trying to hire those poor guys that draw 2D. The fledgling 2D company (Legacy?) that was started by several former Disney 2D animators closed rather quickly. Why? Well, because 2D is dead for all practical purposes.

Let's look at this another way. Just as radio was replaced (not eliminated) by television, 2D animation has been replaced by CGI (3D).

Radio still has its place (much smaller than it once had) and 2D animation will have its small little place too.
 

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