"Immersiveness" in Theme Parks

[retr0gate]

Typical Disney-loving, Universal-hating biased fanboy here. Ever since the opening of the Wizarding World of Harry Potter, it's plain to see how major theme parks such as the Disney and Universal parks have been creating more and more of these "immersive" lands based on pre existing movies and such. Although Universal seems to have started this trend, I believe Disney took it to a whole new level and will continue to do so in the future.

Now, I'm among the many fans who isn't necessarily ecstatic about the overuse of IP's in the parks, but the thing I love about Disney Imagineering is how well they work with what they're given with. Universal simply replicated areas such as Hogsmeade and Diagon Alley, and did it quite well too. After all, they are a movie park so it only makes sense they would replicate what people see on the big screen. While they are skilled in this area, there is *arguably* no overarching theme or story that brings it altogether. That's not to say there has to be one, but when you compare it to lands like Pandora and the soon to open Galaxy's Edge, Disney, I feel, always has more to offer. With Pandora there's the whole "ACE" backstory and the environmental conservation theme, and based on what we know about Galaxy's Edge, Imagineers have created a whole new planet in the Star Wars Universe for this land to take place in. Although it's becoming more and more common for IP's to be forced into the parks, 9/10 times Imagineers take what they have to work with and expand upon it creating new stories and adventures for us to experience, and THAT is why I remain optimistic towards the future of Disney Parks. Sure, we all would like to see some more original content in the park, but in a sense we already have and just because theres an IP attached doesn't necessarily mean it can't be timeless either.

In other words, I always felt like Universal is that kid who can draw really well if he's just looking at something and copying it, whereas Disney is the kid who watched a really cool movie the night before and started drawing his own ideas for it. Both are talented, but one undoubtedly has more charm.

 

[imperius]

Expect Pandora isn’t as good as Diagon.

There really isn’t a ACE backstory that anyone cares about. They had to create a new place since no one really cares about Pandora. People go to Hogsmeade and Diagon to experience those iconic places. No need for a backstory, you are the story. Diagon provides much more entertainment to go along with the beauty of the land. Pandora gives you some nice scenery, fake plants, and a crappy drum show.

 

[Bairstow]

Expect Pandora isn’t as good as Diagon.

Let alone Hogsmeade, for that matter.
It's the closest Disney has come to a home run in the great Potter Chase, and better than Radiator Springs, but they haven't quite hit that level of thematic success yet.

Granted, Avatar couldn't possibly have been Rohde and his team's first choice, and its very vertical jungles full of weird plants and creatures are a spectacularly difficult thing to pull off in a physical space, but they did a very good job with what they were given.

 

[EricsBiscuit]

Expect Pandora isn’t as good as Diagon.

There really isn’t a ACE backstory that anyone cares about. They had to create a new place since no one really cares about Pandora. People go to Hogsmeade and Diagon to experience those iconic places. No need for a backstory, you are the story. Diagon provides much more entertainment to go along with the beauty of the land. Pandora gives you some nice scenery, fake plants, and a crappy drum show.

I disagree. It shows Disney used a universe no one cared about to create a world people love (the land at DAK). On the other hand, Uni just built the popular stuff from the books and the movies.

 

[Bairstow]

I disagree. It shows Disney used a universe no one cared about to create a world people love (the land at DAK). On the other hand, Uni just built the popular stuff from the books and the movies.

Well, yeah. The deck was stacked against WDI because licensing and building something based on Avatar was a wonky idea to begin with. The fact that they succeeded at all doesn't automatically make the result more interesting or compelling than what Universal Creative did with Potter.

 

[EricsBiscuit]

Well, yeah. The deck was stacked against WDI because licensing and building something based on Avatar was a wonky idea to begin with. The fact that they succeeded at all doesn't automatically make the result more interesting or compelling than what Universal Creative did with Potter.

True but it does show they used more creativity IMO.

 

[Bairstow]

True but it does show they used more creativity IMO.

Sure, but hitting a triple off a curveball doesn't mean you get a home run.

 

[EricsBiscuit]

Sure, but hitting a triple off a curveball doesn't mean you get a home run.

I would argue Pandora is a inside the park home run and no, it just shows you're a really good hitter.

 

[JoeT63]

Pandora is a slap-single over a drawn-in infield. Potter-ville is a drag-bunt that hits a rock in foul territory and somehow bounces fair.

I have no idea what any of that means. I just wanted in on the baseball metaphors.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Let alone Hogsmeade, for that matter.
It's the closest Disney has come to a home run in the great Potter Chase, and better than Radiator Springs, but they haven't quite hit that level of thematic success yet.

Granted, Avatar couldn't possibly have been Rohde and his team's first choice, and its very vertical jungles full of weird plants and creatures are a spectacularly difficult thing to pull off in a physical space, but they did a very good job with what they were given.

I think you make a good point here - Disney has everything they need to be making lands as spectacular as Hogsmeade and (especially, since I think it's the more successful of the two) Diagon Alley, but they're picking the wrong IP's to base the lands off of.

It seems only too clear that Cars Land, Avatar, and now even Toy Story were chosen for busine$$ $ake, not because the Disney-going public was desperate to visit those locations. When did you ever hear anyone walk out of Cars and say "I just WISH Radiator Springs were real and that I could go there!", though of course people had those feelings with Potter. I remember hearing rumors when Avatar was released that there were people going into deep depression over the idea that they'd never be able to go to Pandora - genuinely I remember hearing that - but I certainly won't pretend that there was any meaningfully sized portion of the population feeling that way, if any actually at all. And Toy Story being the property of these three that I connect to most, I found myself wanting to play with Woody and Buzz but never really dreamed of being Toy Sized in Andy's Backyard specifically. I hope when I visit late this month I find myself bowled over by what they did with 5 year old me's favorite movie, but I think the mark was missed about why people actually connected with Toy Story. It was the characters, not the spaces.

Harry Potter is of course filled to the brim with characters that people connected with, but it was also built on magnificent set pieces and fantastic locations people wished they could explore.

I think the x-factor that Disney has not activated yet is that emotional connection to space - Radiator Springs and Pandora are both impressively realized, but they're not a homecoming the way visiting Hogwarts is. Or even the way Cinderella Castle is! I think part of the general disappointment that New Fantasyland engendered was that *these* were some properties that had places you wanted to go with characters you wanted to visit, and rather than swing for the fences it felt like the bunted. Who doesn't want to wander through the Beast's Castle? If THAT had been done with the level of commitment offered to Cars Land it would have been a grand slam.

I'm interested in seeing how the new ports in Tokyo pan out - Neverland seems like a golden opportunity for home-run immersive land around a Disney classic, and certainly there's a strong faction that would feel the same way about a full-blown Arendelle. The seemingly inverse relationship between fan's emotional connection to a property and Disney's financial commitment towards realizing it in the parks is a little bewildering -- Star Wars of course will buck that trend in the sense that there's massive emotional connection to the property but there is still somewhat tenuous tie to the Disney core.

It does feel like there's a really-for-real, Disney-with-a-capital-D property waiting to be brought to stunning, magical, immersive life, and they just haven't picked it yet.

 

[LUVofDIS]

All I can say to all of this is that Potter land and Pandora are both extremely immersive, I love being in both. I think I like Potter a little better if only for two reasons, 1) it is good during the day and night where Pandora is much better at night and not as magical during the day. I loved the Potter movies and connected with the land more. Pandora was a bad story with nice visuals but never a great movie to me.

That being said, I will continue to visit both because in the end they both deliver an experience that is different enough to make it worth visiting each one.

 

[Incomudro]

I wanted to go to Radiator Springs.
Cars was tremendous with my sons (twins who are now 16) and boy would we have been thrilled to stay in a Cozy Cone, visit Flo's...

 

[Mickey5150]

Sorry to say but Animal Kingdom was doing immersion long before Harry Potter came around. Africa in Animal Kingdom pretty much blows away any sort of immersive theme park environment. Before that Morocco in Epcot had actual Moroccan craftsmen help create that immersive environment. Before that the Polynesian Resort was bringing Pacific Island immersion to WDW. Sorry, but Universal is about 30 years behind.

 

[Bairstow]

Sorry to say but Animal Kingdom was doing immersion long before Harry Potter came around. Africa in Animal Kingdom pretty much blows away any sort of immersive theme park environment. Before that Morocco in Epcot had actual Moroccan craftsmen help create that immersive environment. Before that the Polynesian Resort was bringing Pacific Island immersion to WDW. Sorry, but Universal is about 30 years behind.

If we're just talking about using indigenous craftsmen to replicate certain architectural styles for a themed park environment, we would need to go back at the very least to the world expositions of the mid 1800s.

 

[smile]

the immersion of the potter lands will have taken almost a decade to match (eclipse?)...
twdc with pants on ankles in '10, and rightly so - this after having been successfully shown the future some years prior... out dark-riding the dark-riders. wallace shawn!

talent going back and forth and forth and back -
there is no longer a twdc parks&plush talent monopoly nor is there any reason to assume that another would manifest in a world of near-rivals and innumerable private firms -
especially if lead like an ever-growing corporate behemoth (which it now must be?)

i feel that only by respecting the disney difference can twdc expect to be treated differently, all things being equal

complacency kills...
eventually...
normally

 

[RandySavage]

I believe there was once a time when a good portion of Main Street USA (not to mention several other castle park lands) featured lots of unique shops, dining, attractions, entertainment and exhibits, all designed to immerse visitors in a romanticized time & place. And these lands did so in a way that was equal to - if not more immersive - than present-day Hogsmeade or Harambe. Casting Americans throughout Harambe/Anandapur - as opposed to EPCOT-style college/cultural ambassadors from Africa & India/Nepal is an immersiveness-killing mistake Disney should remedy.

 

[tomast]

Expect Pandora isn’t as good as Diagon.

There really isn’t a ACE backstory that anyone cares about. They had to create a new place since no one really cares about Pandora. People go to Hogsmeade and Diagon to experience those iconic places. No need for a backstory, you are the story. Diagon provides much more entertainment to go along with the beauty of the land. Pandora gives you some nice scenery, fake plants, and a crappy drum show.

As a disney fan i must say this is the TRUE, Pandora was more of a Meh...
With so SO SO SO many stories and places and characters disney own, they choose "Pandora" the world of a movie nobody remembers, and that it is not Disney.

 

[imperius]

I like Pandora, but saying it is so creative and has this backstory is going pretty far. It’s fine. They made some fake plants that look like the movie and rock work. Creative would have been interactivity, shows in the land, or something for people to do outside of wait in line for FOP. All it is currently is where is FOP? The canteen is easily the best QS I’ve been to in all parks though.

Where as Diagon is immerses you with the little things. Wand points, Knockturn Alley, Little shows, and just the small details. Is it straight from the books/movies? Yep, but I still walk into it amazed no matter how many times I’ve beem.

 

[tomast]

I like Pandora, but saying it is so creative and has this backstory is going pretty far. It’s fine. They made some fake plants that look like the movie and rock work. Creative would have been interactivity, shows in the land, or something for people to do outside of wait in line for FOP. All it is currently is where is FOP? The canteen is easily the best QS I’ve been to in all parks though.

Where as Diagon is immerses you with the little things. Wand points, Knockturn Alley, Little shows, and just the small details. Is it straight from the books/movies? Yep, but I still walk into it amazed no matter how many times I’ve beem.

Thats right, there is nothing to do at pandora. The only thing was to get some pictures with a disney photographer, and I promise, they were the worst picture anybody take me.
And personaly i did not like FOP, all my family was like crazy about it, but i could not stop hearing the machine doing the effect of the "breathing" banshee, and i could not stop seeing the people next to me. I found Soarin much more inmersive.

 

[geekza]

I believe there was once a time when a good portion of Main Street USA (not to mention several other castle park lands) featured lots of unique shops, dining, attractions, entertainment and exhibits, all designed to immerse visitors in a romanticized time & place.

Your belief is correct. Main Street used to be an attraction in and of itself. There were so many neat and varied things to do there. Now it's someplace to stop off and buy overpriced t-shirts when entering or leaving the park. As a kid, the Penny Arcade blew my mind. I'm glad that some of the machines are still around over at the train station, but it was amazing when they were all together in one space. Main Street of the 1970's-early-1980's was a textbook example of world building.