Hong Kong Halloween and ghosts?

[mharrington]

I was under the impression that the reason Mystic Manor, allegedly Hong Kong's version of the Haunted Mansion, has no ghosts is because of Chinese culture. And yet, they have their Halloween events, although I'm not sure how much of it involves ghosts, outside of the Ghost Galaxy overlay of Space Mountain. So, in Hong Kong, are ghosts kind of only allowed at Halloween or is there something else that I don't know?

By the way, I just came across this article that offers more questions than answers: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/art...d-Mansion-in-Hong-Kong-is-Really-Mystic-Manor.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

I was under the impression that the reason Mystic Manor, allegedly Hong Kong's version of the Haunted Mansion, has no ghosts is because of Chinese culture. And yet, they have their Halloween events, although I'm not sure how much of it involves ghosts, outside of the Ghost Galaxy overlay of Space Mountain. So, in Hong Kong, are ghosts kind of only allowed at Halloween or is there something else that I don't know?

By the way, I just came across this article that offers more questions than answers: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/art...d-Mansion-in-Hong-Kong-is-Really-Mystic-Manor.

I think WDI's preoccupation with how the Chinese view ghosts was a bit over the top.

 

[BasiltheBatLord]

Yeah honestly I think the whole "ghost story" was more of a PR piece so Disney could flaunt it's cultural considerations as opposed to an actual reason for why a new ride/IP was chosen over HM.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

Also this article is flat out hilarious. All that talk about how the Chinese culturally regard ghosts and death, and not a single quote from a...Chinese person.

 

[mharrington]

Yeah honestly I think the whole "ghost story" was more of a PR piece so Disney could flaunt it's cultural considerations as opposed to an actual reason for why a new ride/IP was chosen over HM.

Are you saying that their reasons for doing that were not entirely honest? One reason they went that way, according to the article, was that they had learned some hard lessons from Paris (for example, not including alcohol in the park on opening day). They did not want to repeat any of the mistakes of the past.

Also this article is flat out hilarious. All that talk about how the Chinese culturally regard ghosts and death, and not a single quote from a...Chinese person.

Actually, they do mention one student of the anthropology professor mentioned here: a student of his class, who apparently was "so afraid of ghosts he couldn't finish his course readings on the subject."

And are you saying that, contrary to the article's claims, the Chinese do find haunted houses fun?

 

[BasiltheBatLord]

Are you saying that their reasons for doing that were not entirely honest? One reason they went that way, according to the article, was that they had learned some hard lessons from Paris (for example, not including alcohol in the park on opening day). They did not want to repeat any of the mistakes of the past.

I'm not saying that it's untrue that Disney took Chinese culture and cultural sensitivities into account when designing the park, but I think that it's a stretch to say that the sole reason that HM was not included in the park was because there were concerns about its cultural appeal.

Supernatural beings exist in Chinese folklore much as they exist in other Asian cultures (including Japan, which does have a HM). In fact, ghosts are even a decently popular topic in Hong Kong cinema. So therefore the idea that WDI found ghosts to be received differently in Chinese culture and therefore HM was entirely inappropriate for the park I think was probably more of a fluff piece used to by Disney to try to portray themselves as attentive to Chinese culture. Remember, HK was the first park in China, a country that is seen as considerably more isolated and independent than all of the other countries that have Disney parks (including the more westernized Japan). So it makes sense that Disney would want to highlight their ability to adapt to the culture, particularly when Disney has increasingly become cynically viewed as a piece of American pop culture imperialism.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

Actually, they do mention one student of the anthropology professor mentioned here: a student of his class, who apparently was "so afraid of ghosts he couldn't finish his course readings on the subject."

And are you saying that, contrary to the article's claims, the Chinese do find haunted houses fun?

A student is mentioned, but the author doesn't interview anyone who is actually Chinese and would therefore be the most familiar with the culture. The anthropology professor, who is not Chinese, even admits to being baffled by all of it, so he's basically a useless source.

I don't know about mainland Chinese, but Hong Kongers love Halloween, horror, and haunted houses. The holiday is very popular there, as evidenced by Disneyland's own walkthrough mazes (Ocean Park usually does them too).

So all in all, Disney's claim that HM wouldn't work because Chinese culture is a BS one. They wanted to do Mystic Manor, and this was the public justification. Mystic Manor is a wonderful attraction, one of my top three worldwide, but just like all the feng shui lip service they did with HKDL's opening, there's no reason a more traditional mansion wouldn't have been effective in the park as well.

 

[mharrington]

A student is mentioned, but the author doesn't interview anyone who is actually Chinese and would therefore be the most familiar with the culture. The anthropology professor, who is not Chinese, even admits to being baffled by all of it, so he's basically a useless source.

I don't know about mainland Chinese, but Hong Kongers love Halloween, horror, and haunted houses. The holiday is very popular there, as evidenced by Disneyland's own walkthrough mazes (Ocean Park usually does them too).

So all in all, Disney's claim that HM wouldn't work because Chinese culture is a BS one. They wanted to do Mystic Manor, and this was the public justification. Mystic Manor is a wonderful attraction, one of my top three worldwide, but just like all the feng shui lip service they did with HKDL's opening, there's no reason a more traditional mansion wouldn't have been effective in the park as well.

So let me get this straight, then: you don't believe one word of what the Imagineers said? You're saying that all those claims about Disney bowing to Chinese culture were all fictitious?

 

[Absimilliard]

A student is mentioned, but the author doesn't interview anyone who is actually Chinese and would therefore be the most familiar with the culture. The anthropology professor, who is not Chinese, even admits to being baffled by all of it, so he's basically a useless source.

I don't know about mainland Chinese, but Hong Kongers love Halloween, horror, and haunted houses. The holiday is very popular there, as evidenced by Disneyland's own walkthrough mazes (Ocean Park usually does them too).

So all in all, Disney's claim that HM wouldn't work because Chinese culture is a BS one. They wanted to do Mystic Manor, and this was the public justification. Mystic Manor is a wonderful attraction, one of my top three worldwide, but just like all the feng shui lip service they did with HKDL's opening, there's no reason a more traditional mansion wouldn't have been effective in the park as well.

You can thank Ocean Paul old entertainment director for HK love of Halloween. The story goes that after 2001 and their new ride flopped, the director proposed a cheap solution to get attendance: an halloween event. Halloween as a word had no signification at that point in Chinese and I was told an amazing story about how the locals embraced it: the original event had a handful of houses and the director stood by the exit, watching people's reaction as they left. One poor lady fell on the floor in a panic and she was immediately helped. She was asked if she needed help to go home? Her answer was pure gold: I am... so scared.... but I want to do it again! She got up and stumbled back in line for the next house!

Halloween is so serious at Ocean Park October is now their second most attended month. I once got the chance to interview Tom Mehrmann back when he was the CEO of Ocean Park and also spoke to other people at the park. I then wrote articles about the history of that fascinating park.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

So let me get this straight, then: you don't believe one word of what the Imagineers said? You're saying that all those claims about Disney bowing to Chinese culture were all fictitious?

That’s correct. They might have believed what they were saying, but that doesn’t make it actually true.

 

[lazyboy97o]

China is a large and very diverse place. Even within the general category of Han Chinese there are various variations. Heck, the primary language in Shanghai and Hong Kong are distinct. When dealing with China there are two issues related to concepts of the supernatural, culture and more importantly government.

The People's Republic of China is officially atheist and religion is strictly regulated. Popular culture dealing with ghosts and the supernatural are typically framed as dreams to comply with this official position. That though is still a somewhat simplistic view of China, our notion of communist states where so much as a passing thought near the edge of official dogma will land one in the gulag is no longer really true. While some subjects are verboten, others are more subject to wishy washy guidelines that are about how something is framed. A really great example of this is that there are state-owned tourists attractions that are nostalgic celebrations of the minguo era. The minguo era is the republican era, the period from 1912 - 1949 when China was ruled by the Kuomintang with whom the now ruling Communist Party of China had a bloody civil war until the former retreated to Taiwan starting that on going geopolitical issue. Despite years of severe oppression during the Cultural Revolution, issues related to the supernatural, such as feng shui, are still widely known and understood by the populace but may not be specifically named so as to stay "within" official policy. More specific references can also be made at times, such as to traditional pagan gods, so long as they are properly presented objects of cultural history.

That though is all relevant to the Chinese mainland. The people who run Hong Kong Disneyland were not born in China, they were born in the United Kingdom. The people of Hong Kong never faced the severe censorship of the Cultural Revolution and the "One Country, Two Systems" policy [allegedly] guarantees Hong Kong's form of governance for another twenty-nine years. Foreign pop culture was not and is not regulated by the Central Government.

When it comes to Hong Kong Disneyland, Disney fell into the hole of exotic Orientalism. Disney's portrayal of the Chinese in relation to Hong Kong Disneyland is a negative stereotype of rural yokels who have known nothing but the simplicity and mysticism of the East who will be awed by the marvels of Western civilization. Mystic Manor had to be unique because it was part of Disney making amends for under building the park and publicly justifying it with the above negative stereotype. Not getting into ghosts and again justifying the decision as cultural awareness helped Disney have their cake and eat it too. Mystic Manor was developed at the same time as Disney was finally putting together the final pieces of the Shanghai Disneyland deal. A full haunted house in the vein of The Haunted Mansion and Phantom Manor had the potential to draw negative attention from the Communist Party but something more vaguely supernatural fits into what is usually acceptable to Beijing while not being an overt act of kowtowing to Mainland desires to enact censorship in Hong Kong. Lastly, seasonal entertainment is handled locally by the individual resorts and not at the larger global level of Imagineering's Glendale offices.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

As always, @lazyboy97o nails it.