HM plot holes...

[Dr Albert Falls]

Those familiar with my posts know I try to take a very optomistic look at things (and slam all the negativity on these boards).

With that said, I thought the storyline of The Haunted Mansion movie was among the WORST I've ever seen.

The biggest problem was the gaping plot holes. Story elements came out of nowhere, and disappeared just as fast. Nothing made sense--even for a fantasy movie.

I understand that characters in movies (especially horror and comedy movies) must intentionally make nonsense mistakes in order to drive the plot and build suspense. In high school drama class I learned you "suspend disbelief" when your mind accepts these fantasies as fact. But the following examples were so ridiculous, it was impossible to let my imagination run free during this movie.

*Why didn't the family put up ANY fight trying to leave when the storm hit?

*Why would the young girl follow a glowing energy ball without the slightest hint of fear (and with only minor apprehension from the spider-fearing boy)

*Why was Eddie Murphy NOT scared of the changing portraits, the staring busts, and the breathing door? Yet Leota freaked him out. And then, all of a sudden, he's immediately cool with the idea that the house is filled with ghosts.

*Why didn't the wife put up ANY kind of fight to get away from Gracey? Isn't her whole family somewhere in the house within screaming distance?

*Why did Murphy and the kids look for the key before even BOTHERING to look for mom. All they would have had to do is wait in the attic for a few minutes (she was in the attic looking at the wedding dress the VERY NEXT SCENE!)

*What was this "curse"? It was never explained. Pirates of the Caribbean took a much more complicated curse and made it EASIER to understand.

*Assuming the curse was brought on by the murder of Elizabeth, why was EVERYONE in the house (the butler, the maid, the ballroom dancers, etc.) effected by the curse?

*If the curse impacted everyone attending the Mardi Gras ball, why were the OTHER ghosts in the vast graveyard ALSO prevented from "crossing over" (they were obviously dead BEFORE the Mardi Gras party, or nobody would have been around to bury them!)

*What actually BROKE the curse? We know the curse was broken when Gracey learns his wife was murdered. But was it simply Gracey knowing that fact? Or was it becuase Murphy accused Ramsley the butler?

*How did Murphy know "the butler did it"? He just blurted than line out without anything leading him to that conclusion.

*Why, when the curse was broken, did a dragon bust out of the ground and grab Ramsley? Because he murdered a woman 100 years ago? Because a human told the woman's husband he was mistaken about her suicide?

*If Gracey is a ghost, then why did he need to kiss the "possessed" mom? Why couldn't he simply join up with the glowing energy ball that was Elizabeth? And why, if they're both ghosts, could they not make contact before?

*Why were Leota and the Singing Busts not allowed to "cross over" like everyone else when the curse was broken? Were they not ghosts like the rest of the group? And if not, how in the world did she get trapped into a ball and why were they singing concrete sculptures?

These are just a few of the inconsistancies that were so distracting, you could not take the movie seriously.

 

[HMGhost13]

points taken very well. these have been looked at and there's no answer to them at all.

also:

If the house was sealed up inside and sealed off outside and we are shown that the windows repair themselves-how does tilley (she is not madame leota) get to the OUTSIDE on the GROUND?

 

[Woody13]

Originally posted by Dr Albert Falls
...you could not take the movie seriously.

When the DVD hits the market, the Disney accountants will take it seriously...to the bank!

 

[WDWspider]

Before I answer anything. Pirates was meant to be a serious dramatic movie. Country Bears - a simple family movie, and haunted mansion - a spooky comedy. Often comedies take continuity in stride. With that being said, I can answer a few I think.

Originally posted by Dr Albert Falls


*Why didn't the family put up ANY fight trying to leave when the storm hit?

The road to leave was flooded. They had little choice.

Originally posted by Dr Albert Falls


*Why would the young girl follow a glowing energy ball without the slightest hint of fear (and with only minor apprehension from the spider-fearing boy)

Speed of the movie mostly. She was suppose to be the brave one, however a glowing ball would scare me quite a bit.

Originally posted by Dr Albert Falls


*Why was Eddie Murphy NOT scared of the changing portraits, the staring busts, and the breathing door? Yet Leota freaked him out. And then, all of a sudden, he's immediately cool with the idea that the house is filled with ghosts.

I assume he did not notice the portraits or busts. That was for us the viewers to see. The door -- um, well, I sure wouldn't have opened it, but he had to go somewhere, he was locked into the secret passage. Leota freaked him out for obvious reasons I think. He was trapped in a floating, spinning chair with a head chanting lyrics. That would freak me out.

Originally posted by Dr Albert Falls


*Why didn't the wife put up ANY kind of fight to get away from Gracey? Isn't her whole family somewhere in the house within screaming distance?

She was interested in Gracey's story at first. Later, she felt that she had little choice but to marry him. The mansion was huge, I am sure they may not have been screaming that close by, plus the house was sorta alive anyway, maybe it muffled their screams and possibly put a trance on the wife to marry Mr. Gracey.

Originally posted by Dr Albert Falls


*Why did Murphy and the kids look for the key before even BOTHERING to look for mom. All they would have had to do is wait in the attic for a few minutes (she was in the attic looking at the wedding dress the VERY NEXT SCENE!)

No good reason here. The wanted to help and realized his wife was in danger???

Originally posted by Dr Albert Falls


*What was this "curse"? It was never explained. Pirates of the Caribbean took a much more complicated curse and made it EASIER to understand.

OK, from a ghost point, I understand that Mr. Gracey and the Butler had unfinished business, therefore they were stuck in the house. Why all the ghosts remain in the Graveyard and throughout the place... I dunno. You could think this deep into the ride as well, why are there 999 ghosts in one place. Ghosts are souls who cannot leave because they feel they have not completed something in life... or they refuse to leave. In this case I suppose some of the house staff refused to leave to help lift the curse, but the graveyard ghosts - there has never been a reason. Perhaps it was because of Leota's incantation. I thought it was straightforward in this movie, but maybe I just wasn't looking for more.

Originally posted by Dr Albert Falls


*Assuming the curse was brought on by the murder of Elizabeth, why was EVERYONE in the house (the butler, the maid, the ballroom dancers, etc.) effected by the curse?

Read last response, maybe they chose to stay, or maybe it was Leota, or both.

Originally posted by Dr Albert Falls


*If the curse impacted everyone attending the Mardi Gras ball, why were the OTHER ghosts in the vast graveyard ALSO prevented from "crossing over" (they were obviously dead BEFORE the Mardi Gras party, or nobody would have been around to bury them!)

Back two.

Originally posted by Dr Albert Falls


*What actually BROKE the curse? We know the curse was broken when Gracey learns his wife was murdered. But was it simply Gracey knowing that fact? Or was it becuase Murphy accused Ramsley the butler?

Don't understand the question here, it all seems to be the same thing to me.

Originally posted by Dr Albert Falls


*How did Murphy know "the butler did it"? He just blurted than line out without anything leading him to that conclusion.

Lack of people to choose from? :lol: Possible that their are some deleted scenes that may better explain this... it happens sometimes.

Originally posted by Dr Albert Falls


*Why, when the curse was broken, did a dragon bust out of the ground and grab Ramsley? Because he murdered a woman 100 years ago? Because a human told the woman's husband he was mistaken about her suicide?

Easy one... once the curse was lifted, all the souls were free to leave. However, Ramsley was evil and went to Hell. The dragon like image was for dramatic effect. All the other ghosts went to Heaven.

Originally posted by Dr Albert Falls


*If Gracey is a ghost, then why did he need to kiss the "possessed" mom? Why couldn't he simply join up with the glowing energy ball that was Elizabeth? And why, if they're both ghosts, could they not make contact before?

I think Elizabeth had already passed on to the light and was not "cursed" since she was murdered. Perhaps the only way she could materialize in this world was as an orb. It's possible that she could not communicate to Mr. Gracey if she was not a ghost.

Originally posted by Dr Albert Falls


*Why were Leota and the Singing Busts not allowed to "cross over" like everyone else when the curse was broken? Were they not ghosts like the rest of the group? And if not, how in the world did she get trapped into a ball and why were they singing concrete sculptures?

Good points here. First, I think Leota is not a ghost but something else. The busts I feel should have left. But aside from that, I hate the ending of the movie. I think Ramsley should have been revealed but all the ghosts remaining at the house. I was so hoping that we would get to see the Wedding ghost saying "Hurry Back, Hurrrry Back" to the Evers as they left the mansion and all the ghosts finally being able to just enjoy their afterlife.

Originally posted by Dr Albert Falls


These are just a few of the inconsistancies that were so distracting, you could not take the movie seriously.

Again, it was a comedy, so you are correct. But I noticed a few issues you did not mention:

1. Who was the zombie holding the key? Surely he knew Ramsley, since the original letter was in the trunk and Ramsley had to know it was there since he was involved with the murder.

2. Where did the ghosts get fresh food to feed the guests? :animwink:

I liked the movie though. Up until the Marriage scene, it was building up nicely. Too much time spent on the Evers family story before getting to the Mansion and the ending was horrible. All in all, it wasn't a great movie, but seeing many elements of the ride made it a fun movie and a few scenes were nice like the catacombs and the original Leota segment. Leota outside the Mansion and in the car was just plain stupid and ruined the eeriness of Leota in her room.

 

[TURKEY]

Do you take every movie seriously?

 

[kal1484]

Re: Re: HM plot holes...

Originally posted by WDWspider

1. Who was the zombie holding the key? Surely he knew Ramsley, since the original letter was in the trunk and Ramsley had to know it was there since he was involved with the murder.

I believe that it was supposed to be Elizabeth, because the key was to HER chest....

 

[JLW11Hi]

Well, I'm pretty sure the only reason the movie was made was for the jokes and the throwbacks to the ride.

 

[MouseRight]

"Boy, you folks sure have a lot of time on your hands" - He says with a Big Smile on his face.

 

[MrPromey]

Re: Re: Re: HM plot holes...

Originally posted by wdwprincess03
I believe that it was supposed to be Elizabeth, because the key was to HER chest....

Which would lead to the question of why (s)he/it got up and chased after them when they took the key.

Clearly we are thinking more about all of this than the people who mad it intended us to.

 

[Dr Albert Falls]

WDWSpider--

If a movie needs THAT much explaination... it wasn't done properly. Period.

 

[MouseMadness]

Re: Re: Re: Re: HM plot holes...

Originally posted by MrPromey
Which would lead to the question of why (s)he/it got up and chased after them when they took the key.

Clearly we are thinking more about all of this than the people who mad it intended us to.

I figured that the corpse was Ramsley's... considering he's the one who wouldn't want the key to be found. But how does the corpse become mobile... when his spirit is floating around in the castle? :lookaroun

And you're right, we are! :lol:

 

[HMGhost13]

tlb, no but in order to believ ein the movie, you have to believe the seriousness in the rules that they give you, whether it's comical or not. there are rules, laws, whatever for every movie. HM is lacking these. how? they set them up and then break them (see previous post) they leave these plot holes behind. they explain nothing, even with subtle clues.

as for the ghosts in the ride, Walt himself said it was a "retirement home for ghosts (60's remember? not all "spiritual energy left behind with 'unfinished' business" time era)

 

[imagineer boy]

I think the busts and Leota did not cross over simply because they didn't want to. The busts were having too much fun singing and Leota still had a lot of buisness.

 

[WDWspider]

Originally posted by Dr Albert Falls
WDWSpider--

If a movie needs THAT much explaination... it wasn't done properly. Period.

Boo.

I was hoping to get some better conversation feedback/rebuttal from you on this.

But, for your one comment. A lot of what you asked was in fact answered in the movie. At least I saw it, that's how I was able to answer most of them.

Hmmmm... I guess Scary Movie 3 was a horrible movie cause it had millions of plot holes but it did very well. Usually in a comedy, the more humor, the less explanations you should need on story. But oh well. :lol: I had fun trying to answer you, regardless of how made up my answers were. I love to discuss movies as a hobby, but not to decide if I actually had fun just watching the movie for entertainment.

 

[WDWspider]

Originally posted by HMGhost13


as for the ghosts in the ride, Walt himself said it was a "retirement home for ghosts (60's remember? not all "spiritual energy left behind with 'unfinished' business" time era)

So you want to go that route eh. :lol: :animwink:

My point was that you do not have to think so deep into things to enjoy them.

However.... if what you say stands then are we to believe that we are really in a graveyard in the ride? or that a graveyard is built in the house for the ghosts to play? :lol: :hammer: :brick:

Silly, I know, but no sillier than our discussion I feel. (I'm just making light of the topic btw... please don't misinterpret me)

Still, your post does explain why the movie doesn't quite work... the Haunted Mansion isn't suppose to have a curse!!!

 

[JLW11Hi]

Originally posted by HMGhost13

as for the ghosts in the ride, Walt himself said it was a "retirement home for ghosts (60's remember? not all "spiritual energy left behind with 'unfinished' business" time era)

Walt also said he didn't want the Haunted Mansion to have a storyline or anything. All he wanted was a series of fun "experiences". If you ask me, that's pretty much all the movie was

 

[Woody13]

Originally posted by JLW11Hi
Walt also said he didn't want the Haunted Mansion to have a storyline or anything. All he wanted was a series of fun "experiences". If you ask me, that's pretty much all the movie was

Walt's desires at this late date are not a factor.

 

[JLW11Hi]

Originally posted by Woody13
Walt's desires at this late date are not a factor.

Well, I was just responding to HMGhost13's mention of Walt's intentions, so I thought I'd jsut follow that up...

 

[HMGhost13]

Originally posted by WDWspider
So you want to go that route eh. :lol: :animwink:

My point was that you do not have to think so deep into things to enjoy them.

However.... if what you say stands then are we to believe that we are really in a graveyard in the ride? or that a graveyard is built in the house for the ghosts to play? :lol: :hammer: :brick:

Silly, I know, but no sillier than our discussion I feel. (I'm just making light of the topic btw... please don't misinterpret me)

Still, your post does explain why the movie doesn't quite work... the Haunted Mansion isn't suppose to have a curse!!!

lol for the graveyard point: it is an exdtension of the grounds. point in fact: Abraham Lincoln has been sighted both at his grave in illinois and at the white house. in fact, Dan Akyroyd's housekeeper has heard his voice in his california house, when he's not that and he's still alive.

but you are veryv ery correct about the curse. PoTC actually has the "cursed treasure" mentioned in the ride. no where in HM is there a curse, mention of a curse or proof of one. as soon as i heard about this curse i was asking "what curse? how does this tie into the ride? how is this referencing the ride?"

the plot holes in this movie are too big to miss. Scary Movie 3 may have plot holes but it's that kind of a movie, it's a spoof not meant to be taken seriously at all.

HM on the other hand is a family movie, with a moral and lesson learned at the end. Don't Neglect Family. which is why, if you have logic in a movie, you must adhere to said logic and not drop it like some kind of bad habit.

 

[HMGhost13]

Originally posted by JLW11Hi
Walt also said he didn't want the Haunted Mansion to have a storyline or anything. All he wanted was a series of fun "experiences". If you ask me, that's pretty much all the movie was

um. those were his exact words listen to the haunted mansion album. he states something similair to that. "we're building a mansion for ghosts all over the world to come. and we're promising them creaky floors and squeaky doors." something to that effect. www.doombuggies.com also has reports from Walt and his imagineers about what he had wanted, and in one of them is a audio clip i believe or it maybe text (they have a lot of each) either way, it is stated the mansion was a retirement home for ghosts.

as for his intentions: nobody knew. he unfortunately passed away before telling anyone what he wanted, he was still undecided. this led to a big "light" or "fright" argument. in the end both won, the beginning is a bit dark and creepy (stretching room-seance room) after the seance room, it lightens up a bit. ballroom, attic (though still a bit creepy, jumpy, etc) and finally the graveyard and masouleum. to base a movie off of this you'd have to include these aspects...the movie to me had too much light. as shown, most of the mansion (at elast in WDW) has "firght" i'll clump a few rooms togetehr and give you 5 "rooms": stretching, library/portraits/piano, spiders, endless hallway/conservatory/dooridor of doors, leota. while the "light" has the three mentioned.