Has EPCOT failed?

T

ThemeParkFan

Member
Original Poster
I recently read an article stating how they believed that the idea of Epcot has failed. Link to that article:
http://www.screamscape.com/html/wdw_-_epcot.htm#Failed
After reading this, I see the points made and sadly I agree. The Epcot we see today, isn't great. The addition of the revamped soarin and Frozen Ride should "help", but will it long term? In my opinion, no. I believe that the future world itself needs a revamp. Mission:SPACE is empty the majority of the time (At least when I was there) Test Track in my opinion, doesn't work. Although it tries to fit in with the future theme, it doesn't make sense to the ride. The original version was better in my opinion. There is so much that needs to be changed about the park, that it is incredible. I just think that a whole revamp would be needed in order to "fix" Epcot future world. Just my opinion.
 
Goofyernmost

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
It was hardly a failure, but, it did need to change to be relevant in later years. It was a great, inventive and forward thinking creation, that eventually lived out its relevancy over a couple of decades. It morphed into what we have today, but, still needs more change to be brought completely back to life.
 
RobidaFlats

RobidaFlats

Well-Known Member
ThemeParkFan said:
I recently read an article stating how they believed that the idea of Epcot has failed. Link to that article:
http://www.screamscape.com/html/wdw_-_epcot.htm#Failed
After reading this, I see the points made and sadly I agree. The Epcot we see today, isn't great. The addition of the revamped soarin and Frozen Ride should "help", but will it long term? In my opinion, no. I believe that the future world itself needs a revamp. Mission:SPACE is empty the majority of the time (At least when I was there) Test Track in my opinion, doesn't work. Although it tries to fit in with the future theme, it doesn't make sense to the ride. The original version was better in my opinion. There is so much that needs to be changed about the park, that it is incredible. I just think that a whole revamp would be needed in order to "fix" Epcot future world. Just my opinion.
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I suppose it depends on your definition of fail. Given that the stated goal was that it "entertain, inform and inspire and, above all, may it instill a new sense of belief and pride in man's ability to shape a world that offers hope to people everywhere" I would say in most ways it succeeded. There are many people, myself included, who owe certain aspects of our ambition and interests to EPCOT Center.

Without a census of everyone that visited and how it impacted them, it is impossible to know exactly how successful it was, but I would imagine that there is a consensus among those on these forums that it did a pretty good job.

As to whether or not it still does, the same difficulty in answering exists. Does the current park inspire me? Not to the degree that it once did, that's for sure. However, it did once upon a time, and its memory still does, so to some extent, that is a success.

My personal opinion: It did not fail, but it no longer succeeds. Much like most folk heroes, EPCOT inspired people during its life, but after it died, the inspiration dwindled over time. Whether or not the memory will ever fade completely has yet to be determined.
 
T

ThemeParkFan

Member
Original Poster
RobidaFlats said:
I suppose it depends on your definition of fail. Given that the stated goal was that it "entertain, inform and inspire and, above all, may it instill a new sense of belief and pride in man's ability to shape a world that offers hope to people everywhere" I would say in most ways it succeeded. There are many people, myself included, who owe certain aspects of our ambition and interests to EPCOT Center.

Without a census of everyone that visited and how it impacted them, it is impossible to know exactly how successful it was, but I would imagine that there is a consensus among those on these forums that it did a pretty good job.

As to whether or not it still does, the same difficulty in answering exists. Does the current park inspire me? Not to the degree that it once did, that's for sure. However, it did once upon a time, and its memory still does, so to some extent, that is a success.

My personal opinion: It did not fail, but it no longer succeeds. Much like most folk heroes, EPCOT inspired people during its life, but after it died, the inspiration dwindled over time. Whether or not the memory will ever fade completely has yet to be determined.
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I see your point. I just thought that the point of it was to inspire, entertain, etc. long term. And I don't believe it does that as well as it might have when it first started.
 
V

Variable

Well-Known Member
I'd say Epcot did not fail per se. Epcot has been overtaken by the pace of astronomical,, biological and technological research, discovery, and invention.

Our knowledge of the universe, the organisms on our planet, our ability to use and control various energies (through optical, copper, radio, etc) has grown so tremendously and rapidly.

There is a lack of corporate initiative to look beyond the Today, into a future as little as 20 years away. If 20 is too intimidating and unknown to them, then there is no way they have the imagination or Risk Appetite to showcase possible futures of 100 years from now.

Epcot was a showcase of ideas, of the possible futures. The company decided the public didn't want that anymore.
 
The Empress Lilly

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
EPCOT has been deemed a failure by its detractors ever since it opened. Eisner first and foremost. Which is odd, considering it was a resounding artistic and commercial success.

Current lower case Epcot is a mess, a failure except where it relies on old EPCOT. Although I guess at some point it's transformation into princess/booze/superhero world will be complete, including a swap of audience ('nothing educational please, we're with children')
 
copcarguyp71

copcarguyp71

Well-Known Member
There is a big difference between failed and failing. In my opinion it is definitely on the downhill side of failing but I think saying it has failed is going a bit far. It needs help there is no doubt and all of us EPCOT Center fanbois are ever hopeful that empty spaces will be re-utilized, new life will be breathed into tired attractions, the graveyard will be moved elsewhere and some true love is shown for the park. The hard part is that the original vision of a park that is focused on the future is difficult to maintain because the future seems to become the now faster and faster so it will take a good bit of re-invention and modification of the original theme. Some people will have to let go of the past if this park is to be sustainable in the future but it could be made great again. Sadly, overlays, "special events" spaces, MM+ and changes of the same ilk are not the way to get there...it will take imagineering and a partial re-invention of the park. Oh...and $$$, which is really the crux of the problem. Management is blind to the plight of the park as long as ticket sales hold at the levels they are happy with they tend to be blind to the proverbial cracks in the foundation.
 
blueboxdoctor

blueboxdoctor

Well-Known Member
Future World needs some hardcore work done to bring it back to life (so many either empty areas or areas that barely get anybody going to them). It's a giant area that feels very barren and kind of strange having so much empty space.

They really need to work on Innoventions. To me, that is the most important first step, as it is sort of in the middle and can act as a central hub, sort of like Magic Kingdom has the hub then all the spokes that go into different areas.
 
bpadair32

bpadair32

Well-Known Member
I think FutureWorld could use some work and updating, although I still love SSE and TT. That being said, I think that WS is still awesome!
 
AshaNeOmah

AshaNeOmah

Well-Known Member
EPCOT Center was a compromise that, although our nostalgia is strong, was never a great idea.

EPCOT was a city, a community, where people would live, work, and play. When I hear the story that Walt mapped out Disney World to Roy during his last days in the hospital using ceiling tiles, I imagine most people see his laying out walkways and attractions for the Magic Kingdom. I think that's a misconception. No one else was in the room, of course, but I imagine he wanted Roy to continue with the Florida Project as he envisioned it, complete with EPCOT.

The idea of a permanent World's Fair in 1975 was, and is, a terrible idea. Technology was never going to stay still long enough for Epcot Center to keep it's relevance longer than a decade. Tomorrowland was hastily put together in 1955 partially due to the fact that the Space Race was already becoming reality. WED couldn't decide what Tomorrowland was supposed to be. How does a company keep up with the future?

Fans are so disappointed with the direct of Epcot, but it's really the only way the theme park could go. What we have today is the shortsightedness of the heirs of Disney Productions trying to placate the individuals who wanted to build EPCOT after Walt and Roy's death. You'll never capture that feeling you had the first 15 years of Epcot Center because of the inherit problems with what EPCOT was supposed to be.

Sorry for the ramble. I often think Walt would have never agreed to the Florida Project if he knew what it was going to become. I love Walt Disney World, but I don't think he'd care for it.
 
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T

thomas998

Well-Known Member
ThemeParkFan said:
I recently read an article stating how they believed that the idea of Epcot has failed. Link to that article:
http://www.screamscape.com/html/wdw_-_epcot.htm#Failed
After reading this, I see the points made and sadly I agree. The Epcot we see today, isn't great. The addition of the revamped soarin and Frozen Ride should "help", but will it long term? In my opinion, no. I believe that the future world itself needs a revamp. Mission:SPACE is empty the majority of the time (At least when I was there) Test Track in my opinion, doesn't work. Although it tries to fit in with the future theme, it doesn't make sense to the ride. The original version was better in my opinion. There is so much that needs to be changed about the park, that it is incredible. I just think that a whole revamp would be needed in order to "fix" Epcot future world. Just my opinion.
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It still has potential... They just need to make it more of what it was supposed to be to begin with. Honestly they should put the people mover and carousel or progress over into EPCOT where it would fit more with the original intent of the EPCOT.... The attractions at EPCOT that I still don't understand as to how they fit EPCOT are Nemo, and Soar'n...
 
Brad Bishop

Brad Bishop

Well-Known Member
I think it depends on what you're comparing it to and through the prism that you see it.

Take Epcot and put it out in the middle of Texas and have it everything the same except have it owned by Six Flags with no other parks near it (meaning no park-hopping). It doesn't look good.

The "Disney is great all the time" bit isn't there to buffer it. The WDW resort with park hopping isn't there to support it. People might actually ask why they should pay $100 to go to a food and wine festival when that doesn't happen anywhere else. Further, they'd question why they're paying for old, non-updated rides or why they have to pay $100 and walk a mile to have an expensive meal as a country-themed restaurant. Close attractions/buildings and leave them dormant and it looks really bad. Never add a country and it looks really bad.

My guess is that, on it's own in the scenario above, most people would think, "Wow - what a lousy, and very expensive, Six Flags!"

It's not even that Six Flags having their name on it would ruin it. Put any other park brand on it or use "Amusementco" and it doesn't look good at all.

You don't have that problem with the MK or, I think, even DAK. I think both of those could stand on their own.

Put it on the magical WDW site and have the Disney name out front and you can leave it "as-is" for as long as you want and people will pay $100+ to go pay more money to drink and dine. Every excuse is made for it.

It's just the way it is.
 
T

ThemeParkFan

Member
Original Poster
Disneyfordayz said:
No, EPCOT is awesome. Things change. So what. Ideas change. So what. Enjoy it for what it is. Ride the rides, walk around the showcase, smile and laugh.
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That's not what I'm saying. Any Disney park is going to be a good one of course, however, to me, the original idea of the theme park Epcot has failed. However the park right now as it is, I don't think it's doing as well as it should.
 
Smiley/OCD

Smiley/OCD

Well-Known Member
ThemeParkFan said:
I recently read an article stating how they believed that the idea of Epcot has failed. Link to that article:
http://www.screamscape.com/html/wdw_-_epcot.htm#Failed
After reading this, I see the points made and sadly I agree. The Epcot we see today, isn't great. The addition of the revamped soarin and Frozen Ride should "help", but will it long term? In my opinion, no. I believe that the future world itself needs a revamp. Mission:SPACE is empty the majority of the time (At least when I was there) Test Track in my opinion, doesn't work. Although it tries to fit in with the future theme, it doesn't make sense to the ride. The original version was better in my opinion. There is so much that needs to be changed about the park, that it is incredible. I just think that a whole revamp would be needed in order to "fix" Epcot future world. Just my opinion.
Click to expand...


I agree to an extent...Epcot seems (in some ways) to have lost it's way...and I think there are several factors all working against the park...First, Disney is trying to get more people in the parks by coupling movies with the attractions...i.e. Nemo and the Frozen (formally Malstrom). Unfortunately they seem to be taking the "easy" way out. I understand that children (and in turn their parents) will go to Epcot just for the Frozen attraction, so that will bump up the attendance

The technology aspect seems to be in the biggest need of help. Again, I think there are two factors in play here...First, technology is moving way too fast to make the attractions relevent in 2016. As the attractions are being designed, technology is advancing. By the time the attraction is opened, some aspects may have already become outdated.

The second point is that with the way corporate secrets are so tightly held, many companies don't want to show off their latest technology too early, afraid that corporate "spies" will be stealing secrets that have been worked on for decades. Let's face it, technology is moving forward exponentially compared to Walt's days...Disney should really get back in the business of partnering with outside corporations to add new attractions in Future World in a timely manner...presentations may need to be changed out every few years so they won't get stale.

Lastly, I think the addition of new countries (YES, they have the room) should be put on the front burner...sadly, with the state of our world in 2016, everything has to be well thought out so not to offend anyone. With the condition our world's economy is in, many countries don't feel that they would get a "bang for their buck" by adding an attraction. That coupled with the fact that in 2016, the US really does NOT have great relationships with countries throughout the world where an interesting land could be added.

Right now, it seems that Disney's point of view is if they can't tie a Disney movie into the attraction, it's not going to happen...what a shame, because we LOVE Epcot and it seems it's now entertainment OVER education.
 

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