Epcots empty buildings?

[Chefjason1974]

I just got back from a wonderful 3 day's at WDW. The newly remodeled port orleans was great. my only beef (im sure it is because i am now member of these forums) was that Epcot seemed to me to be not utilizing its huge space. It got me thinking... Does anyone think WDW wishes they could start over with Epcot? The idea of pavillions housing many different attractions seems to me to be a huge flop.
The only "pavillion attraction" that seemed to be used for more than one thing was the land. I am sure this has something to do with the food court.
SE after show is not there. and they have a huge post show area.
WOL was closed for the "season"
Test Track "pavillion" does not exist except to allow gm to advertise their crumby cars.
The imagiantion pavillion is a huge waste of space with the top floor not even being used.
The living seas is badly in need of a rehab.

I think that Epcot will evolve without the "pavillion". The Idea that people will enter a themed pavillion & utilize more than one attraction inside them is not the Epcot that exists today.

This is waht i mean by starting over. The Huge pavillions of the 80's are becoming the ghost towns of the 2000's What do you think?
Should Epcot try to persue this "Pavillion" format or scrap it all together & have an attraction in its place with a post show area Like: MS or TT

I think the idea of pavillions was a bad one. Most people identify theme parks with rides. The idea that a "ride" can consist of many different attractions seems to be a tough sell. The Epcot map does not do enough to describe the "pavillions contents either.

what are your thought's

P.S. please lets keep the bashing to a minimum.

 

[pepper2028]

True That ...Lots of empty space that I never though of before...what a waste......

 

[JesusJuice]

I totally agree! Future World needs a desperate rehab...whatever happened to that "Project Gemini" where they were going to add a huge new e-ticket ride, make-over all the other areas, and turn Spaceship Earth into a coaster?

 

[speck76]

I like the pavilion concept simply for the Weather Issue. If you are going to spend an hour or so in an area, why not be inside, away from the hot sun and rain.

One thing though, the vacancy rate seems to be getting out of hand.

As for the vacant spaces:

SSE, the post show area was just recently vacated, as it was a big AT&T themed area, and they pulled their sponsorship.

WOL is only closed due to lack of sponsorship and need of renovation. I always thought this was probably the best use of a pavilion, with the different attractions altogether inside. Hopefully they can replace Body Wars, throw down some new tile up paint, and open it back up.

TLS also needs a major update, but I don't think that concept would work any other way.

The land has a big draw with the food court, and will be crazy busy when Soarin' opens up.

As for the upstairs of Imagination, I really wish they would open it back up.

 

[raven]

Originally posted by Chefjason1974
I think the idea of pavillions was a bad one. Most people identify theme parks with rides. The idea that a "ride" can consist of many different attractions seems to be a tough sell. The Epcot map does not do enough to describe the "pavillions contents either.

what are your thought's

The original Epcot was Walt's idea. It looks very different from hiw original concepts of the park. He wanted it it be a city in which people lived, worked and played without having to go into the real world. Now Celebration is a far spin off of that idea.

The World Showcase pavillions are great. But the Future World ones have been through a lot. Technology has passed most of these pavillions since they were first made. I believe Disney is trying to do what they can with them but everything costs $$$.

Either way, Epcot is still my favorite park. :animwink:

 

[speck76]

Mine too.

First...I think ppl just need to stop comparing today's Epcot to Walt's vision. Obviously, the only thing they share are the name, and it has been that way since day one.

I think a lot of issues would be less apparent if they would change the name of Future World to Discovery World or something like that. It is a place to discover and explore, it is no longer a "futuristic tech area"

Also, when Epcot opened, the personal computer was only what, two years old...and very costly. Much of early Epcot was focused on "cool computer stuff" In 2004, who doesn't have or doesn't use a computer?

I am really hoping after Soarin' opens that they build a weather pavilion...with StormRider. Maybe they can reuse one of the Innovention buildings.

 

[wdwmom2+1]

I agree i wish they could/would incorporate more things into the pavailans maybe someday this will happen.. (hoping):lookaroun

 

[Calamar]

I suppose the discussion is limited to the pavilions of Futureworld, but consider the design of International Showcase -- it is also organized into pavilions, and it's thriving. I don't think the pavilions are to blame for the state of Futureworld, but the content. The history and culture you experience in the International Showcase won't likely change anytime soon, yet cutting edge technology and science is of course evolving. Unfortunately, Futureworld isn't.

Originally posted by speck76
SSE, the post show area was just recently vacated, as it was a big AT&T themed area, and they pulled their sponsorship.

Seriously? That does sound familiar, but I had forgotten. I find it depressing; AT&T has been Spaceship Earth's sponsor for as long as I can remember. In fact, AT&T has always been my favorite telecommunications company, and this is mostly due to its sponsorship of Spaceship Earth -- and I don't consider myself to be easily brainwashed by corporations. I guess AT&T got their money's worth!

speck76 later added ...
Much of early Epcot was focused on "cool computer stuff" In 2004, who doesn't have or doesn't use a computer?

Yeah, and there was a large emphasis on space exploration, but (until very recently) we haven't made such significant advances lately in that area, as we had in the eighties, when Epcot opened. The great technological achievement of this age is the Internet and its applications, which -- while thrilling to nerds like me -- isn't quite as attractive to a general audience as space exploration. Still, I think Futureworld would be a fine place to showcase burgeoning technologies to educate and inspire the imagination -- through both rides and the pavilions. Perhaps Disney could revive Walt's idealistic view of future technology to combat the popular dystopic predictions (compare older sci-fi films to recent ones such as 'The Matrix').

 

[General Grizz]

1. SE should/cannot be a coaster, and nor should it be changed to detract from its current show styles reminscent of such great attractions as Horizons, World of Motion, or Pirates of the Caribbean.

2. Test Track should have been a post-show to a refreshened World of Motion.

3. Mission Space should have had a gigantic post show on Mars, that, or Mission Space could have fit even with the existing Horizons structure.

4. Imagination. . . a mess. Shallow ride + McDonalds.

Same goes for the Mission: Space post show. Come on, Space Base? What ever happened to the TRUE Disney at the Image Works??

Future World has been narrowed down so much that the name has been threatened to change. And that's really, really dangerous. The essences of motion is not about testing cars. Likewise, the essence of imagination is not about the senses.

I will only trust a major EPCOT rehab with brand new management. We can't allow the creators of Test Track and JII to make a "better" Epcot. (As for Test Track, the quality is WAY down with a limited theme. Likewise, the post show plays radio music and is nothing like the Transcenter).

The pavilions, in GENERAL, should model Wonders of Life. A great Disneyesque attraction (Cranium Command), perhaps a thrill, high-advertising ride (Body Wars), and several in-tune, creative exhibits (Sensory Funhouse/Fitness Fairgrounds). Heck, even a restaurant! And - - even Mission Space (2003) has speakers and vent pipes in full view. Find one of these in Wonders of Life (1989) for me.

And with all the rehabs, bring back symbols to unite the park again, as well as SONG, so that the guests can take a bit more Disney with them. "Destiny" doesn't cut it.

The Wonders of Life model, as I call it, is by far the best. Ironically, the pavilion is closed.

 

[aimster]

Originally posted by speck76
In 2004, who doesn't have or doesn't use a computer?

My parents. :lol:

Actually, I have several friends who use a computer at work but don't have one at home.

 

[speck76]

As I had previously stated, WoL is probably the best example of good pavilion design. The problem is it has not been touched since it opened.

When WoL was opened, Body Wars was a cutting edge thrill ride. Well, alot has happened in simulator technology since then, and it is no longer that great of an attraction.

The Making of me is a cute film about reproduction, and is actually entertaining if you have a few extra minutes.

I have never seen Cranium Command. On my first trip to WDW (it wasa band trip) I was with experienced WDW visitors, and I was told some attactions were stupid (which they probably were to a 14 year old) Only recently have I seen some of these attractions, and they are great.

If they would have just updated some of the minor kiosks and time fillers, the place would be better. If they would also replace Body Wars, the place would be great!

 

[The_CEO]

Future World... Whats left? SE thats all showing some future..

M:S... Thats almost now.

TT ... Now..

LS... Basic Now..

Its all in the present.. Bring back the real good experiences!!! :fork:

 

[General Grizz]

Cranium Command is an *excellent* show. I've never heard so much laughter from an attraction audience. But don't take things at face values (meaning, the star is Buzzy, the "captain cortex" of a 12 year old boy), listen to the show and take look at all the action going on all over the stage. I haven't seen every single part yet, and I've probably seen the show over 30 times. There's so much to look - and especially laugh! - at. So on one merit is the comedy. But we all know that comedy isn't (or at least WASN'T!) what Disney bases itself on.

Next is detail. . . notice how one side of the stage has block indentions and squares whereas the other far side has wacky shapes with odd colors. Left and right brain, of course! All throughout you have details galore that perhaps you'll realize after actually analyzing the show.

On the next level is Disney character. General Knowledge, Buzzy, the Hypothalumous, Left/Right Brains, the Heart (although you know they're Hanz and Franz), and yes, even a CHICKEN, create a nice, original Disney family that makes the show timeless (although the films should be updated. . . )

And on the essential level is education. Beyond the laughs, the detail, and the characters are (1) morals and life lessons (based on stress, everyday life) and (2) education about the parts of the body. For example, whenever Hanz and Franz come out to say, "We ah up and paumping!" you'll notice the heart is lit up where it is located on the human body on a few of the different screens.

Cranium Command is one of the ideal Epcot shows, and by far, the best hidden treasure. Next time you see a Cast Member say, "Oh, it's a dumb kid's show" (and yes, I did see a Cast Member say this, and I truly hope she got fired) to a guest inquiring on the attraction, don't listen. Go experience it next time Wonders of Life is open.

"I feel like an unstable compound whenever I think of her. This must be chemistry!"

"WHERE DO YOU THINK YOU ARE, DISNEY WORLD?!"

 

[Chefjason1974]

The pavilions, in GENERAL, should model Wonders of Life. A great Disneyesque attraction (Cranium Command), perhaps a thrill, high-advertising ride (Body Wars), and several in-tune, creative exhibits (Sensory Funhouse/Fitness Fairgrounds). Heck, even a restaurant! And - - even Mission Space (2003) has speakers and vent pipes in full view. Find one of these in Wonders of Life (1989) for me.. [/B]

Hey grizz waht is your beef with this i have heard you mention this before?

P.S. your comment on the size of horizons is just what i mean. The gargantuan size of these pavillions are IMO hinderances. The idea of spending an hour or more inside these pavillions is not a practical one. I say this from the average vacationer P.O.V. The fact that WDW is so large & that people hate waiting so much (as you can see by the popularity of FP) that i believe people want to get in, expeience something & get out to see the rest of what WDW has to offer. MS & TT in opinion is the future of Epcot.

WOL is a good pavillion for 1 reason. the small size makes it an easily & quickly doable attration. this follows my original thought about time frame of the average vacationer & not the annual pas holders. who do not pay the bills.

 

[speck76]

Well Grizz, you sold me on the show. I hope they reopen WoL this summer, so I can see this.

 

[General Grizz]

Originally posted by Chefjason1974
Hey grizz waht is your beef with this i have heard you mention this before?

Could you rephrase that?

Oh, and by the way, Wonders of Life has an area of 10,000 square feet. And I know I'm not pleased with a 120 minute wait for a 5 minute ride. WHERE'S THE BEEF??

 

[General Grizz]

Originally posted by speck76
Well Grizz, you sold me on the show. I hope they reopen WoL this summer, so I can see this.

Hope I didn't over-hype it for you (because I'm attached to it so much), but definitely keep your eyes open and active.

 

[Chefjason1974]

Originally posted by General Grizz
Could you rephrase that?

Oh, and by the way, Wonders of Life has an area of 10,000 square feet. And I know I'm not pleased with a 120 minute wait for a 5 minute ride. WHERE'S THE BEEF??

i was talkin about the wires & pipes you talk about?

P.S. i was talking about the inside dome area of W.O.L. that you see right as you walk in not the whole space. I think that to large of a space Like LS is too intimidating.

 

[speck76]

I have been on most of the Disney attractions to learn that there is magic in the details...most times I notice something additional every time I ride.

 

[Chefjason1974]

Originally posted by speck76
I have been on most of the Disney attractions to learn that there is magic in the details...most times I notice something additional every time I ride.

Have you noticed the new detail on MS?

the barf bags hanging by all the seats:hurl: :hurl: :hurl: :lol: :lol: :lol: