Does Familiarity breed contempt?

[eliza61nyc]

So it's obvious that there are a lot of unhappy campers with the world lately, do you think that the frequency of the visits contributes to the dissatisfaction?
Do you naturally notice more and more "little" things that are not up to snuff if you go a lot?
Do you go other places besides the mouse world?
Where are some other places you feel you get more bang for your buck.


For us, we are huge beach lovers, luckily we also live fairly close (1 hour drive) to some really great beaches, so that is also our happy place.
My late Father in law was European so when the kids were little we spent a lot of vacation time in Lisbon and Paris. not sure if I thought of them as family vacations as it usually meant staying with "family"
I really want to try Yellowstone or Yosemite though.

 

[winstongator]

I’d say frequency of visits does not contribute to dissatisfaction. If I were dissatisfied with wdw, I’d just stop going.
The only little thing I notice is cleanliness and that’s seemed about the same the past 3 years we’ve gone.
I’m in Hawaii now. We were lucky enough to do 2 weeks in Ireland and England this summer. We’ve done Paris and Italy in the past, and I’ve traveled to Sweden for work. I live walking distance to the beach, so spend a lot of time in the ocean. We did Yellowstone last year, and meet friends in SC nearly every summer.

Yellowstone is unbelievable and I recommend it highly. Book early. I booked 5 months early (probably not early for many here) and there were limited in-park hotel options. We got 3 nights at Grant Village. Old Faithful Inn aka inspiration for Wilderness Lodge was awesome.

Bang for your buck? YMMV. WDW is better on cost side for me as I can drive. Most of those other locations require flying. For reference, our flights to Jackson Hole, which we had to catch from MCO to limit to 2 leg flights totaled $2,500 which was more than our AP cost for our family. If you had time, you could drive to Yellowstone and camp. Even for the ‘same’ trip, there’re lots of price-points.

 

[Jedi Stitch]

I feel like there are a many people who go all the time and can see the little changes and they seam to gripe or at least go "well its not like it used to be". I know I don't go as much as I would like too, but when I do go I enjoy the heck out of my time. I have had unmagical moments that sets a foul mood, but usually the magic is quickly refound and we are back to fun.
Yellowstone is Awesome. The weekend before Memorial is a good time The Summer Time Resorts are not sleeping Guests, but are open for dining, gift shops and to explore. Bears are out in force with cubs. The Lake is about 2/3 still frozen over, plenty of snow around, but the road are bare and open. Great time of the year.
Yosemite is COLD in Turkey Day time. Don't try to tent camp. Trust me.

 

[flynnibus]

Where are some other places you feel you get more bang for your buck

Things like $30/plate entrees has little to do with frequency

 

[Gojira ゴジラ]

I love Yosemite. It's only 2 hours drive for me and we go there quite a lot. And the view is always as magnificent as our first time visit.

 

[eliza61nyc]

Things like $30/plate entrees has little to do with frequency

True, but one reason I didn't include food price is because the perception of value varies. Around here 30.00 per person is very much middle of the road. I went to breakfast yesterday with 1 girlfriend. 20.00 bucks each before tip. I had french toast and tea. Lol.

I do wonder though if you've been going annually and seen the increase in everything do we automatically go to price gouging without remembering that the cost of living has probably increased across the board.

 

[Rsj88]

I love WDW! We go every year. I don’t think it has to do with frequency for me. I think it actually makes it easier to adjust to the changes. Every year it seems like they take away something special and hike up the prices (I’m looking at you parking fees). And every year I wonder if it will be the last year that we find our trip worth the money. I think if it had been years since the last time we went we would see a much bigger difference in value and service. I have had several friends notice a huge difference after not having visited in a while. We still have a great time but at some point I’m afraid most of the things that we find special about WDW will be gone.
As soon as my youngest gets a bit bigger we will start doing road trips to see the sights around the US and Canada. I’m sure Disneyland will be on the list! I’ve always wanted to go!

 

[Naplesgolfer]

So it's obvious that there are a lot of unhappy campers with the world lately, do you think that the frequency of the visits contributes to the dissatisfaction?
Do you naturally notice more and more "little" things that are not up to snuff if you go a lot?
Do you go other places besides the mouse world?
Where are some other places you feel you get more bang for your buck.


For us, we are huge beach lovers, luckily we also live fairly close (1 hour drive) to some really great beaches, so that is also our happy place.
My late Father in law was European so when the kids were little we spent a lot of vacation time in Lisbon and Paris. not sure if I thought of them as family vacations as it usually meant staying with "family"
I really want to try Yellowstone or Yosemite though.

I assess my trips to Disney mostly by the standards Disney themselves set over my 25+ years of visit's. They are slipping and overcrowded. I still love the place but it is what it is and the company as currently run doesn't seem to want or know how to tackle the problems. I'll keep going till I reach my own personal tipping point.

I travel all over the world extensively and love seeing and experiencing different cultures and countries. I stay in far more deluxe accommodation than Disney when I travel elsewhere. But I don't judge Disney by the standard of Peninsula hotel or Aman resort. Disney is a unique category of it's own IMO.

As far as pricing goes, IMO they need to substantially raise the ticket pricing to get handle on the crowds.

 

[flynnibus]

True, but one reason I didn't include food price is because the perception of value varies. Around here 30.00 per person is very much middle of the road. I went to breakfast yesterday with 1 girlfriend. 20.00 bucks each before tip. I had french toast and tea. Lol.

Ok, but that doesn't change that 95% of the country will eat at a place that charges 1/3 to 1/2 of that.. for businesses that don't have all the advantages Disney has. In the city, everything costs more as your overhead is way higher. A resturant at Disney doesn't have that overhead... and often has huge advantages. Like shared kitchens, no rent, pooled labor, etc etc etc.

Disney is very savy with their pricing.. some areas are 'average', while others are just absurd. But they always leave some low hangers to have an 'out' for people to point to.

I do wonder though if you've been going annually and seen the increase in everything do we automatically go to price gouging without remembering that the cost of living has probably increased across the board.

The cost of living goes up everywhere... it doesn't change the fact that Disney prices have climbed significantly faster and are way ahead of comparable costs elsewhere.

Last two table meals I had... we ate at a mexican place that was pretty expensive... about $25-32/plate... but the food and service were amazing. We ate at melting pot last night for a birthday... that was ~$45/meal... but was multiple courses, included things like steak/seafood/etc. I'll pay those prices for special occasions. The problem is at Disney, it's nearly every meal... special or not.

Getting charged $30/plate for an IHOP level of food is when it rubs you wrong.

Frequency doesn't change any of this... except for how much money people throw down the WDW hole.

Like I said in my thread last month... the only way to go and enjoy yourself is to TURN OFF YOUR BRAIN when it comes to prices.. because there is no escape or justification for the levels they charge. They do it because they can still get away with it.

 

[eliza61nyc]

Ok, but that doesn't change that 95% of the country will eat at a place that charges 1/3 to 1/2 of that.. for businesses that don't have all the advantages Disney has. In the city, everything costs more as your overhead is way higher. A resturant at Disney doesn't have that overhead... and often has huge advantages. Like shared kitchens, no rent, pooled labor, etc etc etc.

Disney is very savy with their pricing.. some areas are 'average', while others are just absurd. But they always leave some low hangers to have an 'out' for people to point to.



The cost of living goes up everywhere... it doesn't change the fact that Disney prices have climbed significantly faster and are way ahead of comparable costs elsewhere.

Last two table meals I had... we ate at a mexican place that was pretty expensive... about $25-32/plate... but the food and service were amazing. We ate at melting pot last night for a birthday... that was ~$45/meal... but was multiple courses, included things like steak/seafood/etc. I'll pay those prices for special occasions. The problem is at Disney, it's nearly every meal... special or not.

Getting charged $30/plate for an IHOP level of food is when it rubs you wrong.

Frequency doesn't change any of this... except for how much money people throw down the WDW hole.

Like I said in my thread last month... the only way to go and enjoy yourself is to TURN OFF YOUR BRAIN when it comes to prices.. because there is no escape or justification for the levels they charge. They do it because they can still get away with it.

But is Disney significantly higher then other vacation venues? If you go to the ballpark the food prices are outrageous, everyone knows that so do you have to turn your brain off there? I've never been to Universal, how are their food prices?
I went to Savannah and again, if you ate in the tourist destinations (Paula Deens for example) it was higher.

Thanks for your thoughts FM, I do realize that my perception is skewed by my reality

 

[flynnibus]

But is Disney significantly higher then other vacation venues? If you go to the ballpark the food prices are outrageous, everyone knows that so do you have to turn your brain off there? I've never been to Universal, how are their food prices?
I went to Savannah and again, if you ate in the tourist destinations (Paula Deens for example) it was higher.

Thanks for your thoughts FM, I do realize that my perception is skewed by my reality

Universal is often worse... but you also don't stay at universal as long. Same thing as the 'ballpark' or whatever other captive audience situation. Don't like that the hotdog costs $8? Skip it... but when you stay at Disney for 5+ days, you can't skip all meals that long

The idea other people do it too isn't justification.. it's 'safety in numbers' - and it doesn't mean you must be satisified with it.

Plus like I said, Disney has all kinds of angles goes for it that other businesses don't.

Disney charges the prices because they can, and because they use the pricing to justify selling other products (like DDP)

 

[networkpro]

No but an open anonymous forum does attract those feelings from some. Just consider this Dantes' inferno with various levels for destinations based on their judgment, but still all hell.

 

[winstongator]

Universal is often worse... but you also don't stay at universal as long. Same thing as the 'ballpark' or whatever other captive audience situation. Don't like that the hotdog costs $8? Skip it... but when you stay at Disney for 5+ days, you can't skip all meals that long

The idea other people do it too isn't justification.. it's 'safety in numbers' - and it doesn't mean you must be satisified with it.

Plus like I said, Disney has all kinds of angles goes for it that other businesses don't.

Disney charges the prices because they can, and because they use the pricing to justify selling other products (like DDP)

MLB full season ticket holders buy 81 tickets/season. NFL buy 10, maybe more. College football is around 8 Home. Gator tickets can seemingly be had for a little over $500/seat - almost the cost of an AP. The more you go to Disney, the more you spend on hotels and food, but your per-park-Day cost for the AP goes down.

If you want vitriol, check out college football forums for a team that leads underperforming.

Food at hotels is notoriously overpriced. When I mentioned our bill for breakfast today my wife was shocked.

 

[eliza61nyc]

So if you look through my history here you know my consistent feeling is that traveling is expensive period. Now maybe because I tend to go to the popular choices but I really haven't been many tourist destinations where anything was cheap. sure there are bargains to be had but pretty much places that depend on tourism are not going to be cheap.

The only exception that I can think of is Vegas, mainly because they are making their money back easily at the casinos but even in Vegas if you go to the equivalent sit down it's going to cost you. Vegas does have the buffets that are usually a good bargain and if you gamble you get your booze free. lol

IMO the worst was London and Washington DC. I thought the food was extremely expensive in both places.

 

[DarthVader]

I think the issue is complex and a simple yes/no answer doesn't fit.

Yes, to some degree, if you go to WDW often, then the specialness of the place decreases with each visit. The more you go, the less special it feels. I'm not saying the enjoyment decreases but the sense of awe and "magic" if you will.

Add in the fact that while we see commercials showing a magical time (with no crowds) reality is a bit different

Third issue is the cost, we're paying thousands upon thousands to spend a week at disneyworld, and so given the high dollar amount, borderline issues, can easily become bigger headaches because of the high cost.

 

[flynnibus]

MLB full season ticket holders buy 81 tickets/season. NFL buy 10, maybe more. College football is around 8 Home. Gator tickets can seemingly be had for a little over $500/seat - almost the cost of an AP. The more you go to Disney, the more you spend on hotels and food, but your per-park-Day cost for the AP goes down.

If you want vitriol, check out college football forums for a team that leads underperforming.

Food at hotels is notoriously overpriced. When I mentioned our bill for breakfast today my wife was shocked.

Yup we are nfl PSL holders. We have to buy preseason at full price etc. But unlike Disney.... the stadium is right here, and doesn’t cost me $1500 or 3 days of travel to get there . The stadium also reduced prices at concessions this season because of customer dissent.

Just because some do it... doesn’t mean you have to be happy with it, or ignore it.

 

[Chef Mickey]

I don't agree with your first statement about there being "A lot of unhappy campers with the world" lately. I think there are a some unhappy vocal people here, natural on a fan forum, but I doubt it's the normal sentiment. The numbers show people are very happy with Disney Parks.

 

[wdwfan22]

While there may be some unhappy campers I think it's safe to say that the majority of guests are still happy with the Disney experience. We go all the time and still find it as magical as always. If we didn't we wouldn't return. The trip is about what you make it. If you want to look for the bad, I'm sure you will find it. Disney has always been an expensive product and always will be. That's not going to change. For us we still receive value in the product and always have a great time.

 

[larryz]

If you want vitriol, check out college football forums for a team that leads underperforming.

In the college football world, if a coach continually disappoints his fans, he gets the old heave ho.
In Disney's case, however, the CEO just keeps getting bigger bonuses...

 

[flynnibus]

In the college football world, if a coach continually disappoints his fans, he gets the old heave ho.
In Disney's case, however, the CEO just keeps getting bigger bonuses...

Well the difference is...
College FB isn't measured in customer satisfaction... winning is almost always directly coupled to increased revenues.. so winning = school is happy and fans are happy. Its almost a 1:1 link

Here, corporate winning is tied to dollars... and dollars and customer satisfaction linking are way more murky.

Corporate alignment to customer alignment... you can cheat that in so many ways... for at least the near term. Disney's nostalgia and spacing between it and immediate competition give a lot more buffer before those two worlds clash too.