Disney's America at the Knott's Berry Farm Site

[Haymarket]

Sometimes I wonder if it would have been better if Disney bought Knotts back in the 90s and turned it into Disney's America.

Disney's America In Knotts Berry Farm: Never Built Disney's America Part 17

Never Built Disney's America As the Disneyland Resort was set to add a second theme park in the late 20th century, some fighting broke out b...

www.themeparksandentertainment.com

I have a complex about Disney's America; it drives me nuts that it wasn't built.

I was just looking at this. Here are the relative sizes of the Knott's property, Disneyland, and Disney California Adventure:

.

The Knott's property is clearly bigger than either park, and even has a waterpark (southeast corner) and hotel (south end), but Knott's Berry Farm itself is quite smaller than either Disneyland Resort park.

Also, take a look at this:

Beach Boulevard is so annoying, cutting right through the perfect square (well, it's also bisected by Grand Avenue), and there's a church (magenta rectangle). Did the Knotts own the whole square?

And Independence Hall at Knott's is in the green rectangle, far from the park itself. The green arrow points to the park entrance.

Here's the overview concept art for Disney's America. Isn't the building in green Independence Hall? [It's the Hall of Presidents at "Presidents' Square".]

Would the Imagineers have been able to shove all of Disney's America into the boundaries of Knott's Berry Farm park proper? Would they have moved Independence Hall to the front of the park?

The article in the quote says:

The park would have been extended to create a new main street with the preexisting replica of Independence Hall forming a new entrance into a new land inspired by Liberty Square at the Magic Kingdom, including the Hall of Presidents.

How would Imagineers have extended the park across Grand Avenue and Beach Boulevard, so that Independence Hall could be the new entrance to the park?

It would have been great if Disney came to own the entire square and could get rid of Beach Boulevard and Grand Avenue, giving them a perfect square to redevelop into what the Imagineers envisioned for Virginia. Maybe it'll happen someday, if Cedar Fair needs to sell Knott's for some reason?

You’re KNOTT going to believe where “Disney’s America” almost got built

Jim Hill reveals a BERRY interesting story about where the Imagineers were thinking about resurrecting that history theme park that the Walt Disney Company originally had wanted to build in Virginia. (What's that? You say you don't like puns? Well, FARM be it from me to keep on torturing you...

jimhillmedia.com

 

[Phroobar]

IIRC the Church of Reflections was bought be a congregation and there were plans to move it off Knotts property. I guess that all fell through. It used to reside were Silver Bullet is now.

The Knotts property is even bigger if you include the parking lot behind it and the one of the right. Cedar Fair would never sell Knotts. That and Cedar Park are their top revenue producers. Elements of Disney America did get built into DCA but there isn't much trace of them now. Since American history is so anti Disney-woke, they would probably rebuild most of it and we would lose the uniqueness of Knotts.

 

[Haymarket]

Since American history is so anti Disney-woke, they would probably rebuild most of it and we would lose the uniqueness of Knotts.

Yeah, I figure they'd have to go with the mostly uncontroversial, education-light Disney's American Celebration concept these days, with lots of IP plugged-in.

In response to all of this, in August 1994, Disney reimagined the plans for the park. They changed the name to Disney’s American Celebration.

This vision of the park would be less political and less historically oriented. It was going to include a version of The Land attraction from Epcot. There would be working factory tours of American companies like Crayola and Apple. They also planned multimedia presentations about immigration, the American family and American military history.

Additionally, Disney’s American Celebration would include a dining district called Streets of America. It would showcase regional cuisine from different cities like pizza from Chicago, Cajun food from New Orleans, and barbecued ribs from St. Louis.

 

[Phroobar]

Yeah, I figure they'd have to go with the mostly uncontroversial, education-light Disney's American Celebration concept these days, with lots of IP plugged-in.

That kind of sounds like the original DCA.

 

[Haymarket]

That kind of sounds like the original DCA.

Very true. Quite a bit of Disney's America was used in DCA. It's just ... ugh it's so annoying that it didn't get built. I don't know why it still annoys me so much. It's something about the elite NIMBY people and disingenuous "it's hallowed ground" claims (there's sprawl there regardless of whether it was built).

 

[Haymarket]

Just noticed the liquor store, dental clinic, tire center, and Fatburger. Reminds me of the holdouts at DCA and Disneyland.

 

[Phroobar]

Very true. Quite a bit of Disney's America was used in DCA. It's just ... ugh it's so annoying that it didn't get built. I don't know why it still annoys me so much. It's something about the elite NIMBY people and disingenuous "it's hallowed ground" claims (there's sprawl there regardless of whether it was built).

They had the same problem building Disney Sea in Long Beach.
Sure Disney would have changed pretty much all of Knotts but at least it wouldn't have Silver Bullet over the entrance.

 

[MickeyMouse10]

I don't think they'd ever do Disney's America today. With how IP based everything seems to be with Disney. In fact, I can't remember the last non IP thing they've done in Disney World.

 

[MickeyMouse10]

If it was going to be done today it would be vastly different than the original idea. I went with a new take with the idea in my RetroCOT thread. Where I said it could be a sister park and similar to Epcot.

America Showcase

1 California (Santa Monica Beach and Pier, LA, San Francisco)
2 Las Vegas
3 Texas
4 Hawaii
5 Alaska
6 Seattle
7 Washington DC (Center)
8 Chicago
9 New York
10 New England
11 Philadelphia
12 New Orleans
13 Florida (Orlando, Miami, Everglades)

 

[Phroobar]

If it was going to be done today it would be vastly different than the original idea. I went with a new take with the idea in my RetroCOT thread. Where I said it could be a sister park and similar to Epcot.

America Showcase

1 California (Santa Monica Beach and Pier, LA, San Francisco)
2 Las Vegas
3 Texas
4 Hawaii
5 Alaska
6 Seattle
7 Washington DC (Center)
8 Chicago
9 New York
10 New England
11 Philadelphia
12 New Orleans
13 Florida (Orlando, Miami, Everglades)

Maybe they could buy Orion Pictures so we can have a Robocop coaster in Detroit.

 

[Haymarket]

DIsney's American Celebration would have been ripe for IP plug-ins.

From an archived Jim Hill article no longer on his site, "Another great what-might-have-been: Disney's American Celebration" (24 January 2005):

... "And how would 'Disney's American Celebration' be different from 'Disney's America' ?," you ask. Well, for starters, history would take a back seat to entertainment. As this new version of the Virginia theme park would encourage guests to " ... participate in story, song and film that would help bring America and its history to life."

Gone were the plans for Crossroads U.S.A., that Civil War-era village that was to have served as "Disney's America" 's hub. In its place was to have been "Democracy," the theme park's new entry area. With such intriguing sounding attractions as "America: A user's guide," the "American Free Speech Forum"and the "American Hall of Fame."

And you can forget about those carefully considered DA "lands" like Victory Field, Presidents Square and Native America. Each of which had been deliberately designed to illustrate a certain aspect of American history. In their place, the Imagineers envisioned building a series of "Future World"-like pavilions that would have celebrated specific parts of the American experience.

Among these proposed pavilions were:

Family (Also known as "Generations") -- which was to have featured a multi-media show called "American Families," which was to have celebrated four generations of one family from 1929-1999.​

​

The Land -- A next generation version of this Epcot icon, featuring attractions like "The Life of America" (which was supposed to show the profound changes that can occur in a single day, a single year and 1000 years), nature walks and petting zoos.​

​

Creativity and Fun -- This area of the theme park was to have featured a full-sized recreation of Ebbett's Field (for exposition ball games) as well as several historic attractions from Coney Island.​

​

Work -- was to have featured factory tours of such distinctly American companies as Apple Computer, Crayola Crayons and Ben & Jerry's.​

Service & Sacrifice -- was to have featured a high tech attraction called "Soldiers Story," which would -- via a time machine -- have taken guests through memorable moments in American conflict. This part of the theme park was also supposed to have included an interactive area, where DAC visitors could have tried their hand at military training and/or toyed with war artifacts.​

​

American People -- This area in the theme park would have tried to tell the story of the American "melting pot." One part of the pavilion would have been dedicated to our native peoples, while another area was to have used a ride vehicle as well as a film featuring the Muppets to tell the "Immigration Story." While still another part of this pavilion was to have presented a movie called "Dream of Freedom," which was to have talked about our nation's on-going struggle for freedom & equality for all Americans.​

​

Streets of America -- This would have been DAC's elaborately themed dining district. With separate "streets" designed to look like miniature versions in NYC (serving Jewish cuisine / deli food), St. Louis or New Orleans (Cajun cooking / barbecued ribs), San Francisco (Chinese Food), Chicago (deep dish pizza) and Los Angeles (Hispanic / fast food)​

​

Disney's America Live -- The theme park's main entertainment venue with outdoor stages like the "USO Bandstand" & "The American Amphitheater" as well as the "State Farm arena," where DAC visitors could have tried their hand at hog calling & calf roping.​

Doesn't that sound like an intriguing new take on the whole "Disney's America" concept? Downplaying history in favor of celebrating the music, food, hard work, ingenuity and innovation that makes this country so distinct?
...

 

[MickeyMouse10]

Maybe they could buy Orion Pictures so we can have a Robocop coaster in Detroit.

Oooooo yeah, it sounds good. As long as they show the origin, when Alex Murphy gets killed during the queue. That would be very memorable for the kiddies.

 

[Phroobar]

If it was going to be done today it would be vastly different than the original idea. I went with a new take with the idea in my RetroCOT thread. Where I said it could be a sister park and similar to Epcot.

America Showcase

1 California (Santa Monica Beach and Pier, LA, San Francisco)
2 Las Vegas
3 Texas
4 Hawaii
5 Alaska
6 Seattle
7 Washington DC (Center)
8 Chicago
9 New York
10 New England
11 Philadelphia
12 New Orleans
13 Florida (Orlando, Miami, Everglades)

Oh, in the Florida section, they could build Epcot!!

 

[ThemeParkPriest]

Yeah, it saddens me that Disney's America wasn't built. What got me interested in Disney theme parks was Animal Kingdom opening in my lifetime (well, Disney MGM Studios also opened in my lifetime, but I don't remember that) and seeing articles about the upcoming California Adventure. My family went to DCA in the 1st year it opened. We enjoyed ourselves, especially with Soarin' and Grizzly River Rapids but overall it wasn't quite the Disneyland experience.

Anyways, I haven't looked at Disney's America plans in a while, but there was certainly a lot of potential with that park!