every time i drive by these 2 awsome hotels i wonder why disney went through all the trouble of having michael graves design them to then have westin and sheraton operate them-disney does not even own the physical buildings just the land and copyright name-does anyone really have real info about this-they built all the other disney owned properties after and during the time they were built but decided to have them operated by outside comany-i wish disney would buy the 2
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disney swan and dolphin question
- Thread starter epcot71
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MrPromey
Well-Known Member
Basically, Disney screwed up... The situation with these two was the result if the actions of the management in charge during the mid 70's through early 80's.. Disney was in a lot of trouble at that point and they made some rather bad deals. Tokyo Disneyland came out of that (which would have been great if Disney had actual ownership of it).These resorts were also something they had made a bad deal for. Disney actually tried to back-peddle out of it later on before construction began but were threatened with heavy litigation that they were in no position to deal with. The land is leased though and will eventually revert back to Disney with the option on Disney's end to renew the contracts but I'm guessing that they will probably take total ownership at that point... I'm sure that if Disney had wanted to build these for use themselves they would have either been set further away from Epcot or they would have been made in the more traditional WDW resort style with mostly smaller buildings that are 2-3 stories grouped together so as not to have been visible from Epcot.
MrPromey
Well-Known Member
The whole thing was explained to me one time years ago but I can't remember, I'm thinking it was a 50 year lease but I could be pulling that number from nowhere.. As for Disney not owning the buildings, with these kind of leases, when they come up the land owner usually takes possession of the buildings...
ive noticed that dolphin/swan has real different relationship from other non- disney hotels on disney property. they are in most aspects treated as a disney owned resort. for example they are both the only non-disney owned rsort in disney.com the others are not(meaning-courtyard by marriot ,hilton etc).also u can choose these 2 in a disney cruise package while the others u cant.and also in the birnbaums travel books they are listed on same page with the disney owned resorts whil ethe others are listed in seperate section.they really must have great legal team that put together a killer contract that the others did not have.
DisJosh
Well-Known Member
I was wondering why they are included as part of the normal Disney resorts in guide books and on the disney web site etc.......Maby it's just b/c Disney plans on controlling it in the future, like you guys said about the contract and stuff....I dunno. I've never actually been to either, are they nice? Do they fell like your in a disney hotel when youre there?
MrPromey
Well-Known Member
I don't really know on that... I would guess that there was something in the contracts about how the hotels would be handled by Disney. I mean, obviously, they are further in on Disney land than any of the Hotel Blvd. ones and they carry the Disney name (as in Disney's Swan & Disney's Dolphin). All of the employees wear cast member name tags and the merchandise with the Swan and Dolphin logos on it says copyright Disney... The hotel companies don't exactly benefit 100% from this deal because they are national chains that cold benefit from this relationship if it was higher profile but you don't really hear anything about them in the hotels... I'm not sure if this is still the case but Marriott had signed a contract with Disney that put them in charge of certain aspects of managing all WDW resorts a little over a decade ago. There's lots of stuff going on behind the scenes that the general public isn't aware of. The Swan and Dolphin aren't really all that peculiar of an arrangement 
I just returned from staying at the Swan. A CM on one of the boats that runs between the parks & the Epcot resorts stated that the land is leased for 99 years to the general contractor of Epcot, the Tishman Construction Company. The TCC contracts out to the Starwood company of Tokyo to run the Swan & Dolphin.
For an interesting story about Disney during the days when the Swan & Dolphin deal was consumated (and WDW hotel construction vs. WDI), check out the following link:
http://www.laughingplace.com/News-ID115220.asp
For an interesting story about Disney during the days when the Swan & Dolphin deal was consumated (and WDW hotel construction vs. WDI), check out the following link:
http://www.laughingplace.com/News-ID115220.asp
i looked up starwwod hotels-turns out ur both right-starwood owns and bought sheraton and westin hotels a while back.so swan is westin and dolphin is still sheraton but both companies are subsidaries of starwood-turns out starwood is a huge and i mean gigantic resort/hotel company that owns luxury hotels ans resorts all over the world-so at least disney has alligned itself with a award winning company that like disney strives in excellence-could have been motel 6!!!!!!!!!!!!
Originally posted by MrPromey
Thanks for helping to clear that up. Be careful with the Jim Hill articles, though. He's go sort of a reputation around here
I'm curious, what reputation does Jim Hill have on this board?
I've just stumbled upon his columns and have found them to be very informative (albeit somewhat longwinded!). Is it because his articles seem to have a "what's wrong with Disney" tone? Or is it because his facts are questionable?