Disabilities

[kasey1988]

I recientally just returned from a week in the happiest place on earth! i have a few questions though... i know certian people have diffrent disabilites and completly respect the fact that they might need special assistance entering/exiting rides and needing wheelechairs, but is there any proof needed for this.. in mgm the other day i witnesses a father and daughter full force running towards the tower of terror almost knocking people over and the daughter was yelling "DADDY DO YOU HAVE A DISABILITY PASS SO WE DONT HAVE TO WAIT???" and several people i seen in wheelechairs did not look ill at all in fact i seen several families through out the day and each time i seen them there was a diffrent member in the chair and yet they get to go to the front of the line or get ont he busses before anyone else.i was at DT disney on thursday night and there was a veryyy long line for the ASMO resort and people had been waiting a while and a family with a member in a wheelchair pulled up as the bus arrived and they got on the bus first, even before people with sleeping children in there airms that had been waiting and did not get on the bus because of this large group. i dont think this is fair at all (especiall for people that have nothing wrong with them).! Any one else feel the same way? i hope this thread dosnt make any one upset... and if offends you in some way i appoligise in advance

 

[Monty]

This is always a very delicate subject...

I have what could be considered an "invisible disability". When I was last at WDW I got the Guest Assistance Card. I don't use a wheelchair and on most days you'd have a hard time telling that I have any need for "special consideration".

I am a multi-lateral partial-appendage amputee and have a full-thickness skin graft across my right heel. As a result, I have balance problems and can't stand still for lengths of time. Intriguingly, I can walk for considerable periods without a problem, but long wait lines can cripple me for weeks.

The policy at Disney [and anywhere else for that matter] is that if someone requests consideration for a disability, they will accommodate that individual. They are legally required to do so by the Americans with Disabilities Act.

I am one example of why that is so... No-one but a psychic podiatrist could accurately assess my condition without a detailed examination and the vast majority of people would assume by looking at me I did not have a problem.

The unfortunate side-effect of the ADA is any idiot can walk up to Guest Services and request a GAC and be given one, no questions asked. Sadly, there are people in this world who gladly lie and take advantage. Equally sadly, there are lots of people who judge based on their own interpretation whether a given individual has "adequate need" of accommodation.

In a perfect world, no-one would dream of taking advantage.


It's not a perfect world. Yet...

 

[kasey1988]

i feel the same! its a sensitive subject and its upsetting that people take such advantage of this!

 

[Monty]

i feel the same! its a sensitive subject and its upsetting that people take such advantage of this!

The trouble is... How can you tell if they're taking advantage or legitimately in need?

 

[WDW FAN 4 LIFE]

The only thing I can't stand is when I see little kids changing places in a wheelchair. I am sure that the family who u using the wheelchair, hopefully for a real legiament reason & not taking advantage so they can go to the front of the lines at rides. However I wonder why would they let their kids take turns ridding in it?

 

[unkadug]

The only thing I can't stand is when I see little kids changing places in a wheelchair.

Karma..........they'll get theirs eventually.:fork:

 

[lamarvenoy]

I feel for the disabled and I wish them luck with trying to live a normal life. I do however feel a deep sense of rage and pity for those who falsely use handicap assistance.These people are abusing the handicap in a sense by falsely imitating them. I know I have seen handicap passes and stickers for sale in some...not so ethical places. Some people are pathetic.

 

[Floridasunshine]

The only thing I can't stand is when I see little kids changing places in a wheelchair.

While I have never been to Disney with a disabled person, I have been to the mall,festivals, and many other places with my mother who usually uses a walker. But when there is lots of walking involved, I usually rent her a wheelchair. But half the time, my mother ends up using the wheelchair as a walker and wheels the grandbabies around. She likes to do it. But the wheelchair is there when she needs to rest. She is 78 after all ....

But I am sure that other folk look at us like we are SeniorCitizen abusers, making an obviously disabled, elderly woman push healthy small children around in her wheelchair...... but she would not have it any other way... she likes her independence and loves to spoil her grandchildren.

 

[WDW FAN 4 LIFE]

i was at DT disney on thursday night and there was a veryyy long line for the ASMO resort and people had been waiting a while and a family with a member in a wheelchair pulled up as the bus arrived and they got on the bus first, even before people with sleeping children in there airms that had been waiting and did not get on the bus because of this large group. i dont think this is fair at all (especiall for people that have nothing wrong with them).! Any one else feel the same way?

How many people were in this group with the guest who was in the wheelchiar to take up all the space on a Disney Transport bus?

 

[kasey1988]

id say 8-10 of them im assuming they were on a magical gathering.. i cant wait to bring my family on one of those someday!

 

[wedoada]

Oddly enough I work in the disabilty/ADA field and was talking to the US Department of Justice ADA office about this exact situation today. I also posted similar info on another post related to ECV Rental policies.

The American's with Disabilities Act (ADA) only requires businesses to accommodate PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES and it only prohibits a business from making "unreasonable" inquiries and then the key is that it must not be used to "exclude" People With Disabilities (PWD).

Disney and other businesses are not trying to exclude PWD, in fact they are trying to go out of their way to INCLUDE them. Providing Guest Assistance Cards, wheelchairs & ECV's is not required by the ADA so it is a specialized service specifically intended FOR PWD and as such a person would need to be a PWD to be eligible to receive those services.

Now a business still can't make "unreasonable" inquiries. I have bent legs and use a wheelchair...my disability is pretty obvious so there should be no need to ask. But if an otherwise healthy looking and acting person requested an ECV rental or assistance card, Guest Services COULD, if they chose to, ask if they had a disability. No medical records or detailed history just do they have a disability. DOJ actually even said a business could ask to see a disability parking placard or some other easily provided documentation.

There should be a clearly posted policy sign at Guest Services and maybe even a line in the paperwork or rental agreement stating that cards and rentals are intended only for PWD then if they were discovered as frauds later there may be some recourse. Obviously some people will still find a way to abuse the system.

I don't mean to imply that just documented PWD should get service. If someone has a legitimate problem fine. But the example in the ECV thread was three 20 something guys driving ECV's while they drank their way around the world at Epcot. These 3 were seen running from place to place and horsing around in the park. Now while they could...possibly...have some invisable disability how likely is it that all three had one and that they all still allowed them to run around and horse around and mix alcohol with whatever meds their disability might require ?

Maybe I don't think like other people but I worked in Law Enforcement for years and the only people who yelled about taking a polygraph usually had something to hide. (no flames please !) I guess I think the same way about this. If disney or anyone else wanted to provide a service especially for me and to get that service that would make my life easier they asked me to show my parking card or some other basic disability related information (short of medical records or xrays - LOL) then I would be the first in line to show it to them. They would be trying to help me and make sure the service was not abused. Why would I protest ?

Letting just anyone use services intended for people with disabilities is fine...but it is a business decision, a choice, and is not the fault of the ADA.

RandyW

 

[WDW FAN 4 LIFE]

id say 8-10 of them quote] If it was only 8 -10 people why couldn't other people who were waiting also get on the bus? I know I was not there, but I don't see a Disney Transport Bus filling up with that many people, so I am sure other people could have got on & other people could have stood up until a seat became free & yes I do know that when someone with a wheelchair comes on a row of seats are followed up to make room for the chair.

 

[mousermerf]

The lines exceed the number of seats on the bus. I've had it happen and been angry too.

Line of waitng people at MGM, doing switchbacks in th queue.

The bus rounds the corner and just at that moment a family with 2 ECVs pull up. You could hear the silent groan from the line (who had been there in the sun for 20mins or more).

The family had 10 people total. The two ECV's took up 6 seats, but on top of that the two adults got out of the ECV's and sat in normal seats, taking up 2 seats each due to their size.

So, this family of 10 has now arrived after everyone else and taken up 18 seats on the bus.

If anything, on the buses people should be required to remain on the ECV and seatbelted in that way. I was annoyed - but what can you do?

 

[Monty]

Letting just anyone use services intended for people with disabilities is fine...but it is a business decision, a choice, and is not the fault of the ADA.

RandyW

My apologies if it sounded like I was apportioning fault to the ADA. On the contrary, I think it's a very progressive piece of legislation. Here in Ontario, we have the ODA, which is modelled [albeit poorly] on the ADA.

It is a simple truth though that lawyers [presumably Disney's included] have pushed companies and corporations to err on the side of inclusion, which is a good thing in my own case. The sad reality of human nature is that there will always be people who take advantage.

I have frequently been challenged by right-thinking citizens who see me park in handicap-designated parking without noticing my permit. I rarely "look" like I need it [on some of my "bad" days, no-one questions me]. I never get upset, I just advise them that I do, in fact, have a permit and it's appropriately displayed. I'm pleased when they challenge, it means they're probably also challenging people who shouldn't be parking there.

On an amusing side note, I was once challenged for parking in a spot, but before I could explain, the gentleman saw my hands [as I said I'm a multi-lateral amputee, my hands are both obviously not normal] and quickly apologized for challenging me :lol: [my hands have nothing to do with why I have the permit, but anything resembling a disability was good enough for him]. I was very nice to him and commended him for challenging me. Then I explained that my badly messed-up feet were why I could park there, not my lack of fingers.

The real problem is that people decide who deserves what without knowing. Yes, three 20-somethings getting drunk while racing ECVs around EPCOT are likely taking advantage, but I won't be the judge. Perhaps they have asthma but it's currently under control? Two minutes later an attack could debilitate any one of them and they'll need the ECVs.

I play baseball, volleyball and golf frequently, but I'm doing so with specially-designed orthotics and if I reach a certain threshold, I stop immediately. If I don't stop, I could very quickly be on crutches or in a wheelchair for weeks. Does being active in sports mean I'm not seriously disabled? I choose to take a level of risk to do those things, it's better than curling up and saying I can't, but it doesn't change the fact of my disability.

If you could walk a mile in my shoes... Heck! If I could always walk a mile in my shoes...

Apologies all around, I tend to get caught up in this topic.

 

[wedoada]

No offense taken here nor did I mean to even give the impression that I took offense. I just wanted to clear up that it is a choice and not required by the ADA that anyone be allowed to use services for PWD.

I totally agree that there are many hidden disabilities but again I see nothing wrong with trying to "police" those using it, alway staying within what is allowed under the law.

Normally I use a manual wheelchair but for long distances I have an ECV and you would be surprised how differently I am treated depending on which I am using. In my chair I am seen as a person with a disability but on the ECV I am just another fat guy being lazy. Little do they know that I have had a disability since birth and can't walk.

I support that PWD wait in line like everyone else on the accessible rides...we wanted equality...we got it right ? LOL :lol:

 

[Tigggrl]

Ok, here is my view from here.....I have an injury...its not a visible one...Its in my spine:lookaroun ...I am facing the possibility of having surgery for it, as we have exhausted every avenue, and the whole pain management sux, The steroid shots have helped me gain weight, and its very depressing and not to mention annoying. I walk the treadmill 3 times a week, for 10 minutes on SLOOOWWW.....I can not stand for long periods of time, and walking alot is out of the question...I cant ride my bike, or skate...this is so hard as I used to be extremely active. Sitting on the puter is getting easier, but shoulder surgery was no fun. I tried the wheelchair rental thing last week at Disneyland, because after 10 hours, WITH a steroid patch and rest, I was in so much pain I could not sleep. I HATED it...and I am sure I am eligible for handicap parking, but refuse to get it...I am stubborn, and the pain wins out....so if you see me at WDW, in my current state, do not assume I am lazy....I really am in pain, and I have a dr. note and 5 different meds to prove it...

 

[Master Yoda]

and the whole pain management sux,

A little off topic, I know you have probably heard every alternative in the book but I'll throw my 2 cents in. If you haven't already give acupuncture a whirl. Long story short a friend got messed up in a car accident was taking oxycottin like candy just to take the edge off. He started acupuncture and now doesn't even have aspirin in his house.

Back on topic...ADA good.... every one deserves equal access...people that abuse it bad...karma will get them in the end.

 

[Tigggrl]

Thanks Yoda! I have tried it all...I also have special equipment in the house here too....I just wanna be pain free again

 

[Tom]

Well, I'm usually pretty outspoken on topics like this, so I'll be tactful. And as a disclaimer, I mean NO disrespect to those of you (specifically those who have posted in this thread) that have honest-to-goodness disabilities, be they seen or unseen.

The only way to fix the abuse problem is to offend SOMEONE and be utterly invasive of privacy - or to just use personal judgement, which often doesn't work. I, personally, would be the last person WDW would want at Guest Services deciding who gets a Pass or not - because I'm quick to pre-judge everyone I see. Someone like MontyMon would come in, and for reasons he stated himself, I'd be quick to doubt him and his needs. That's why I don't work in places like that, haha.

There are PLENTY of people who abuse the system. I'll be in the grocery store (like last Wednesday) and see some utterly obese woman driving around in an ECV, bumping displays, parking in the middle of aisles while she looks at everything on the shelf, and then barks at a stock boy to get her a 12-pack of coke and put it in her basket. Oh God, I wanted to.....do bad things. She's probably someone who'd go to WDW with her family of 12 and get an ECV, then take all 12 of them to the front of every line, because she can't drink Diet Coke (don't flame me with the "she might have a gland issue" comments - this is an example).

So, a CM sees someone like the woman above, and if he/she tries to judge them and decline front-of-line access to them - they could be in for some problems. I'd LOVE to be the one who actually decides who gets a Pass or not - but like I already said, I'd be too harsh. I appreciate Wedoada's comment about waiting in line with everyone else. Not many in his/her place would say something like that. I'll say that people with severe disabilities or other lifelong illnesses have "done their time" waiting in doctor offices, operating rooms, and simply dealing with life as a disabled person - and I feel for them. Perhaps some of those people, by individual opinion, should get a front-of-the-line pass, and maybe take their closest family members (who have probably waited in doctor offices with them for years). But I, personally, don't want Big Bertha to drive up to the front of the line with her 12 cousins and aunts and uncles and cut everyone who has been waiting in line - but that's just me.

I HATE situations like the girl and dad RUNNING to ToT - there is no way in my mind that they deserve special treatment. The 3 guys in ECV's at Epcot were PROBABLY abusing the system, but as someone said, they MAY really have had something that justified it. 2 people RUNNING to a ride are not justified - period...especially when they exlaim out loud that they're expecting it. UGH! I just wish we didn't have to be so P.C. nowadays - God forbid we offend someone in order to try to make it a better place for everyone.

Sorry for the soapbox - and again, no offense to the disabled parties who have posted in here..and I apologize if anything that I wrote offended you.

-Tom :wave:

 

[wedoada]

No offense taken Tom in fact we sound a lot alike, I hate the whole PC thing too.

RandyW