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Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
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My personal theory is that the dividing line is January 28,1986. Media companies including Disney (ABC)were blamed by a handful of special interest organizations of inflicting trauma on youth by promoting the teacher in space program. As far as I remember that was the last live launch of a space shuttle to be carried nationally on network TV. Media tech began to change rapidly about that same time . I’m not saying there was any conspiracy against “futurism” per se, just that the circumstances of the time. It was the first time most people had that moment of knowing exactly where the were when it happened...live. Even the JFK assasination was not as immediately defining as Challenger. Kennedy’s death had at least a modicum if filter. There was no filter on Challenger.

The generation that saw it live from their classroom rose above it I think. Those too young to remember or not yet born just grew up with a different outlook about science and technology. It was a defining cultural shift. Cowboys in spaceships didn’t carry the same risks as somebody’s real life teacher or mother or friend. JMHO.
The Kennedy Assassination didn't have filters, I had lack of technology or constant national coverage that newer technology provides. They had to find random people that happened to be filming it (literally filming) for it to be shown. Believe me when they did show it, seeing the mans head explode was pretty intense. Along with that we got to witness a murder, live on TV. We watched Oswald shot in real time. Although the Challenger was as tragic, we never saw anything pertaining to the people in the craft, all we saw ever, was the explosion. Having lived through both, the public shock and scaring emotionally generated by Kennedy and that immediate time after was much more traumatizing to all ages, then the Challenger.

Concerning the Challenger I remember one of my daughters coming home from elementary school that afternoon with a joke she had heard it went... "How many astronauts can fit in a VW Beetle?" The answer was 11. Two in the front seat, two in the back seat and 7 in the ash tray. That was just hours after it actually happened. There was no joking after Kennedy if for no other reason then to be freaking out about what was going to happen to the government. However, the danger factor of riding in a car in public with thousands of witnesses and being shot into space in what is primarily a flying bomb has a certain real expectation of possible disaster. It was awful, but, there was hardly a person that didn't have that possibility someplace in their minds.

The Kennedy thing burst our happy bubble, the end of innocence, as has been said by many. After that we were dealing with death after death, and watching death in Vietnam nightly. Most of the country had so much scar tissue that there was no emotion left to express.
 
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Tony the Tigger

Premium Member
The Kennedy Assassination didn't have filters, I had lack of technology or constant national coverage that newer technology provides. They had to find random people that happened to be filming it (literally filming) for it to be shown. Believe me when they did show it, seeing the mans head explode was pretty intense. Along with that we got to witness a murder, live on TV. We watched Oswald shot in real time. Although the Challenger was as tragic, we never saw anything pertaining to the people in the craft, all we saw ever, was the explosion. Having lived through both, the public shock and scaring emotionally generated by Kennedy and that immediate time after was much more traumatizing to all ages, then the Challenger.

Concerning the Challenger I remember one of my daughters coming home from elementary school that afternoon with a joke she had heard it went... "How many astronauts can fit in a VW Beetle?" The answer was 11. Two in the front seat, two in the back seat and 7 in the ash tray. That was just hours after it actually happened. There was no joking after Kennedy if for no other reason the to be freaking out about what was going to happen to the government. However, the danger factor of riding in a car in public with thousands of witnesses and being shot into space in what is primarily a flying bomb has a certain real expectation of possible disaster. It was awful, but, there was hardly a person that didn't have that possibility someplace in their minds.

The Kennedy thing burst our happy bubble, the end of innocence, as has been said by many. After that we were dealing with death after death, and watching death in Vietnam nightly. Most of the country had so much scar tissue that there was no emotion left to express.
Thank you for putting that into perspective.

I watched the Challenger from my classroom. It was crazy, but I don’t see how it affected Disney.
 

networkpro

Well-Known Member
My personal theory is that the dividing line is January 28,1986. Media companies including Disney (ABC)were blamed by a handful of special interest organizations of inflicting trauma on youth by promoting the teacher in space program. As far as I remember that was the last live launch of a space shuttle to be carried nationally on network TV. Media tech began to change rapidly about that same time . I’m not saying there was any conspiracy against “futurism” per se, just that the circumstances of the time. It was the first time most people had that moment of knowing exactly where the were when it happened...live. Even the JFK assasination was not as immediately defining as Challenger. Kennedy’s death had at least a modicum if filter. There was no filter on Challenger.

The generation that saw it live from their classroom rose above it I think. Those too young to remember or not yet born just grew up with a different outlook about science and technology. It was a defining cultural shift. Cowboys in spaceships didn’t carry the same risks as somebody’s real life teacher or mother or friend. JMHO.
It's matter of perspective which colors any personal filters you may or may not have had in place. In my personal existence, I was a few miles south of the DMZ in South Korea where I'd been stationed for the past two years. The world is not a safe happy place, only some places in some countries are at times.
 

MickeyLuv'r

Active Member
A couple things:
This whole discussion about IP or no IP really has to go back to this-for every member of this forum, what first attracted you to Disney?
Alas, ORIGINALLY - like many folks, going to WDW wasn't MY choice. It was my parents' choice.

I'm sure Disney movies and characters were a factor, but they weren't the main factor.

My folks respected anyone who could educate and entertain at the same time: Word of Disney (weekly tv show), Fantasia's classical music, Hall of Presidents, Mission to Mars (allowed folks to imagine space travel), and the Contemporary hotel. The monorail was also very popular! Back then, the route between the TTC/MK was populated with topiaries.

WDW didn't just have bushes, they had topiaries!

WDW had a monorail, and it ran through their hotel!

Disney's stuff wasn't just fun, it was also intelligent and educational! THAT was the big draw!
 

MickeyLuv'r

Active Member
I think one thing lots of people will never understand or care about is that the parks were always designed to be large works of art. Those of us who are considered "old school" fans don't necessarily visit the parks just to ride a bunch of rides, we go to appreciate the care and talent that was put into every little detail.
I mentioned topiaries, but the landscaping has always personally been a big deal.
Just seeing green is a treat in winter, and palm trees are special, but WDW's greenery is just overall amazing! the plants are always and have always been stunning!

As you say, the care and talent that goes into WDW.

We also always loved the little twinkle lights on the trees in the hub. Little details like the good night kiss, and hidden Mickeys.

What kind of crazy place goes to THAT level of detail?
 

MickeyLuv'r

Active Member
I'm really not looking to get into another day long argument about how just because an opinion isn't yours doesn't mean it isn't valid. I think I've been pretty civil about it so far, but seriously guys. It's a little absurd it even has to be said.
(The pp paraphrased a famous quote from Animal Farm. More or less, Orwell was criticizing the USSR.)
 

Trackmaster

Well-Known Member
Alas, ORIGINALLY - like many folks, going to WDW wasn't MY choice. It was my parents' choice.

I'm sure Disney movies and characters were a factor, but they weren't the main factor.

My folks respected anyone who could educate and entertain at the same time: Word of Disney (weekly tv show), Fantasia's classical music, Hall of Presidents, Mission to Mars (allowed folks to imagine space travel), and the Contemporary hotel. The monorail was also very popular! Back then, the route between the TTC/MK was populated with topiaries.

WDW didn't just have bushes, they had topiaries!

WDW had a monorail, and it ran through their hotel!

Disney's stuff wasn't just fun, it was also intelligent and educational! THAT was the big draw!
Yeah.... but other parks have parking lots that are right next to the park entrances. You know... where you can park your car and walk right in. If they want me to ride a monorail that goes around stuff, they can make that a ride that's optional. Otherwise, it is what its, but the mandatory monorail is a big negative in my book. I know this ruffles some feathers, but that's just my opinion. I think its more of a benefit to the park than the guests.
 

eliza61nyc

Well-Known Member
I mentioned topiaries, but the landscaping has always personally been a big deal.
Just seeing green is a treat in winter, and palm trees are special, but WDW's greenery is just overall amazing! the plants are always and have always been stunning!

As you say, the care and talent that goes into WDW.

We also always loved the little twinkle lights on the trees in the hub. Little details like the good night kiss, and hidden Mickeys.

What kind of crazy place goes to THAT level of detail?

lol, quite a number of places actually nowadays.. That's why I think Disney is actually smart to give it's public what it wants, even if it is IP heavy.

years ago, Disney may have been the best game in town for family vacations. Now, many, many vendors have stepped up their game.
Now of course it's hard to compare apples to apples because of the size of Disney but we've been to two all inclusives in Playa del Carmen where the attention to detail was insane.
 

Trackmaster

Well-Known Member
lol, quite a number of places actually nowadays.. That's why I think Disney is actually smart to give it's public what it wants, even if it is IP heavy.

years ago, Disney may have been the best game in town for family vacations. Now, many, many vendors have stepped up their game.
Now of course it's hard to compare apples to apples because of the size of Disney but we've been to two all inclusives in Playa del Carmen where the attention to detail was insane.
I don't think its just about the public, I think that IPs solve a pretty logistical issue: trying to tell a story with developed characters when you have pretty much no time to do it. Universal (while yes, they do use IPs pretty heavily also) makes the mistake of obsessing over plot, using pre-ride videos, obsessively using screens, etc. to the point that we're just pretty much just watching a cheesy 10 minute movie. If you use an IP correctly, the riders know the characters and know what the plot is all about, and when you get on the ride, you can just enjoy the ride and not worry so much about character development and an intricate plot.

I think that to have amusement parks rides with plots, you'd have to over time have rides that built off each other, and slowly add more and more character development and more twists to the story. Hasn't really been attempted much (I guess maybe Pirates of the Caribbean may been a start? Or maybe Figment?) but you'd have to do something like that. Might be a cool, ambitious thing to do though. You have to admit, Space Mountain pretty much never had a real plot. It was just about the visuals, sounds, and experience.
 
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