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[iHeartDisneylandCats]

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[wdwgreek]

I'll go first beyond meet and greets intellectual properties have no place in World Showcase. Although that ship has already sailed.

 

[SorcererMC]

I'll go first beyond meet and greets intellectual properties have no place in World Showcase. Although that ship has already sailed.

I've come to the conclusion that this is partly where it all started....the lines between fact and fiction were blurred. As soon as the characters were put in WS (like Snow White in Germany), the artistic integrity of both the character/film and the theme park became compromised.....a fictional character (whether derived from that culture or country of origin or not) placed into a 'factual representation' of that country is a jarring juxtaposition - either the character needs to become more historically accurate, or the pavilion needs to become less factual (therefore more fantastical).....and that is how we ended up with FEA in Norway.

 

[GoofGoof]

I've come to the conclusion that this is partly where it all started....the lines between fact and fiction were blurred. As soon as the characters were put in WS (like Snow White in Germany), the artistic integrity of both the character/film and the theme park became compromised.....a fictional character (whether derived from that culture or country of origin or not) placed into a 'factual representation' of that country is a jarring juxtaposition - either the character needs to become more historically accurate, or the pavilion needs to become less factual (therefore more fantastical).....and that is how we ended up with FEA in Norway.

I agree with this, but I think there could be some exceptions if executed properly. WS is suppose to be a celebration of the cultures of various nations but the cartoons themselves are not necessarily culturally relevant in those countries. Frozen isn't even set in Norway same with Aladdin in Morroco. To me Mulan appearing in China or the Rat ride in France would be more acceptable since the movies were actually set in those countries.

I actually don't have a problem with using Donald Duck in Mexico. In that case it's using a character to show off the culture of the host country (basically a big tourist video for Mexico hosted by the 3 Caballeros). That's more acceptable to me than having a ride based on a movie that is set in a fictitious place that happens to be somewhat similar to Norway. The ride isn't focused on Norway at all.

 

[Cmdr_Crimson]

I agree with this, but I think there could be some exceptions if executed properly. WS is suppose to be a celebration of the cultures of various nations but the cartoons themselves are not necessarily culturally relevant in those countries. Frozen isn't even set in Norway same with Aladdin in Morroco. To me Mulan appearing in China or the Rat ride in France would be more acceptable since the movies were actually set in those countries.

I actually don't have a problem with using Donald Duck in Mexico. In that case it's using a character to show off the culture of the host country (basically a big tourist video for Mexico hosted by the 3 Caballeros). That's more acceptable to me than having a ride based on a movie that is set in a fictitious place that happens to be somewhat similar to Norway. The ride isn't focused on Norway at all.

At least they don't have Mushu (Mulan) or Rutt & Tuke (Brother Bear) Riffing the Circlevision films....

 

[MisterPenguin]

Frozen isn't even set in Norway

Yes. It is.

Arendelle is a fictional town... set in Norway. The animators went to Norway to make everything in the film as Norwegian as possible.

The Imagineers went to Norway to make everything about the Sommerhus and the FEA queue Norwegian. If the Imagineers had simply expanded Maelstrom instead of putting in FEA, the could-have-been queue for New Maelstrom and the queue for FEA would have been almost exactly the same.

What was added to the Norway pavilion is as Norwegian as the mishmash of Italian architectural styles you find in Italy is Italian.

Saying Frozen isn't set in Norway because Arendelle is fictional is like saying Batman isn't set in the USA because Gotham is fictional.

 

[GoofGoof]

Yes. It is.

Arendelle is a fictional town... set in Norway. The animators went to Norway to make everything in the film as Norwegian as possible.

The Imagineers went to Norway to make everything about the Sommerhus and the FEA queue Norwegian. If the Imagineers had simply expanded Maelstrom instead of putting in FEA, the could-have-been queue for New Maelstrom and the queue for FEA would have been almost exactly the same.

What was added to the Norway pavilion is as Norwegian as the mishmash of Italian architectural styles you find in Italy is Italian.

Saying Frozen isn't set in Norway because Arendelle is fictional is like saying Batman isn't set in the USA because Gotham is fictional.

Mulan is based on an actual Chinese folk tale and features actual elements of China like the Great Wall. The plot of Ratatouille is that a rat wants to be a great French Chef and succeeds. Food is a big part of French culture. It may not be as culturally relevant as Impressions de France, but it would still be a decent complement to French culture.

Frozen is based in a fictional land that is inspired by Norway, but the movie has very little reference to Norwegian culture or history. The ride doesn't highlight anything distinctly Norwegian either. If they had a reboot of Maelstrom hosted by Olaf it would be a more boring and less popular ride but would be a better fit in WS. About the only thing it has going for it is the architecture still matches the pavilion.

Contractual issues aside, Gotham City and Batman have no place in the American pavilion in WS either. Just because Gotham City is a fictional city in America doesn't mean it automatically fits there. Again, WS is supposed to celebrate the culture and history of the host country, Batman does neither for America and Frozen does neither for Norway.

 

[SorcererMC]

Aladdin in Morroco

Here's how Disney reconciles that issue for Jasmine:

Agrabah’s Finest Export
Pay a visit to Princess Jasmine in her home-away-from-home, a land where the camels roam.
Listen along as she shares tales from her desert days and “Arabian Nights.” While you snap an unforgettable photo, perhaps she’ll inspire you to explore the Morocco Pavilion—a locale similar in many ways to her native Agrabah.
​

I think it was slightly different when Aladdin was included, like they were 'just visiting' and 'felt right at home in Morocco' or something like that. Same for Belle in France - 'A bit of the enchanted countryside helps this Beauty feel right at home'.

Here's what they say for FEA [excerpt]:

Hoist the sails in Arendelle aboard an ancient Norwegian vessel as you set out into the wondrous wintery world of Frozen!
....Welcome to Frozen Ever After, an unforgettable adventure where you’ll be whisked away for an on-the-water journey through Arendelle—one set to the tune of your favorite songs from Frozen!
​

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IMO, blurred lines and no hard and fast rules, since the source materials do vary in their historical accuracy and authenticity. Frozen was borne of the Snow Queen myth (eg Hans Christian Andersen) which is not in and of itself Norwegian....but that Disney 'assigned Norway' to their film adaptation. I consider FEA in Norway a sort of cultural anachronism....that it has become Disney's version of Norway - representative, but as a result it loses some of its authenticity as representative of Nordic culture. (I suppose it is all subject to one's interpretation whether that bothers them or not....and how that deviates from WS' 'mission'.)

Re: 3 Caballeros, same...the ride hews close enough to the film (both being travelogues) that there isn't a gap between the character serving as 'tour guide'; it's consistent between the film and theme park attraction. Donald was a 'cultural ambassador' in the film, and not converted into one for the sake of putting him into the pavilion.

 

[GoofGoof]

Here's how Disney reconciles that issue for Jasmine:

Agrabah’s Finest Export
Pay a visit to Princess Jasmine in her home-away-from-home, a land where the camels roam.
Listen along as she shares tales from her desert days and “Arabian Nights.” While you snap an unforgettable photo, perhaps she’ll inspire you to explore the Morocco Pavilion—a locale similar in many ways to her native Agrabah.
​

I think it was slightly different when Aladdin was included, like they were 'just visiting' and 'felt right at home in Morocco' or something like that. Same for Belle in France - 'A bit of the enchanted countryside helps this Beauty feel right at home'.

It's a bit of a stretch. Based on this backstory they could include just about any character under the story that they are just visiting the country. I'm still not sure how it advances the exploration of Moroccan culture and history either, but at least it's just a meet and greet and isn't replacing a relevant part of the pavilion like...

Here's what they say for FEA [excerpt]:

Hoist the sails in Arendelle aboard an ancient Norwegian vessel as you set out into the wondrous wintery world of Frozen!
....Welcome to Frozen Ever After, an unforgettable adventure where you’ll be whisked away for an on-the-water journey through Arendelle—one set to the tune of your favorite songs from Frozen!
​

-------------------
IMO, blurred lines and no hard and fast rules, since the source materials do vary in their historical accuracy and authenticity. Frozen was borne of the Snow Queen myth (eg Hans Christian Andersen) which is not in and of itself Norwegian....but that Disney 'assigned Norway' to their film adaptation. I consider FEA in Norway a sort of cultural anachronism....that it has become Disney's version of Norway - representative, but as a result it loses some of its authenticity as representative of Nordic culture. (I suppose it is all subject to one's interpretation whether that bothers them or not....and how that deviates from WS' 'mission'.)

This I don't think works. I don't think removing an actual attraction about the history and culture of Norway and replacing it with Disney's cartoon version of Norway fits the mission of WS. I get that the Snow Queen story that Frozen is based on is Scandinavian but it doesn't really tell me anything about Norway itself.

Re: 3 Caballeros, same...the ride hews close enough to the film (both being travelogues) that there isn't a gap between the character serving as 'tour guide'; it's consistent between the film and theme park attraction. Donald was a 'cultural ambassador' in the film, and not converted into one for the sake of putting him into the pavilion.

I'm not opposed to cartoons or IP in WS as long as they are used to advance the mission of WS. I believe that 3 Caballeros does that. I liked the idea behind the Agent P scavenger hunt thing in World Showcase too. There is no reason learning about other nation's cultures and history can't be fun too

 

[Adam Snider]

What does intellectual properties mean? I know this is probably a stupid question

 

[The_Jobu]

What does intellectual properties mean? I know this is probably a stupid question

It's kinda shorthand for a fictional franchise. Star Wars is an IP, Indiana Jones is an IP, Star Trek is an IP, the Simpsons, etc.

If someone's saying "I dont like to see IP in EPCOT" it means they dont want to see Guardians of the Galaxy the Ride, they want an original creation like Horizons.